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Label contradiction?

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Secrets5, May 15, 2017.

  1. Secrets5

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    Hello,

    Not sure how many of you have heard of youtuber Riley J. Dennis, but that's who I'm coming from with this message. Please don't go sending her hate with what you chose to reply to me. I am asking here because she is probably busy so I thought it would be quicker.

    Riley identifies as a 'non binary trans woman', however on paper this seems quite contradictory. Non-binary is being outside/between strictly 'male' and 'female'. Trans woman fits into the binary being strictly 'female'.

    With these together, she is saying [or at least how it appears to me] 'I am not strictly male or female but I am strictly female'. Which contradicts.

    Just wondering if anyone could explain the contradiction or explain why it's not a contradiction?

    Thank-you.
     
  2. Zoneingout

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    Transgender is sometimes used as a umbrella term i believe that's where she is coming from.
    But weather or not it makes it correct or not it doesn't matter because what someone wants to label themselves is what someone wants or feels comfortable with and that's fine.
     
    #2 Zoneingout, May 15, 2017
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  3. AlexJames

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    I have seen nonbinary placed under the transgender umbrella a lot, so perhaps this is what she means. It would be the same as saying 'Nonbinary AFAB', at least that's how i interpret it.
     
  4. Eveline

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    As far as I know non binary trans woman is actually a fairly common label and is usually simply another way to say transfeminine... I've known quite a few people on these forums that identified as non binary trans man/woman for a period. I'm confused why anyone here would want to send hate mail because a trans person decided to add non binary to the trans woman label because they feel more comfortable identifying in such a way. :icon_conf
     
  5. Secrets5

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    It's something people say on youtube. If they're doing a reaction video to another person's original video, they ask them not to 'flood' the other person's comment section. I think it has something to do with the way youtube collects views. So I thought I'd put that here. I probably put 'hate' instead of 'comment' as Riley does get a lot of hate and constructive criticism for her videos, but maybe 'comment' was the word I should have used.
     
  6. Eveline

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    Secrets, as far as I can understand the labels people use are chosen according to subjective feeling. This is a personal choice people make to define themselves and express who they are. It helps them to navigate the world and feel at home in it. Two different people might have a similar innate sense of gender but depending on their experiences, their identity might be drastically different. However, there is a lot of meaning to the label in l context of interpersonal relationships. The label activates schematic patterns of thinking that guide our responses to the person that we are talking to and influences our perception of them.
     
    #6 Eveline, May 15, 2017
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  7. EverDeer

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    I think what they mean is, ultimately they are nonbinary but they relate more to the roles that are typically assigned to women, fitting in with other women, and femininity, etc. As another nonbinary person, I essentially see this as "if I was forced into picking one side or the other, I would go with ____" and this doesn't seem too uncommon. I personally sometimes feel validated being referred to as a boy, and would much prefer someone call me a boy than a girl, because I relate more to how boys experiences the world, their roles, and masculinity. Oftentimes, it's a thing that nonbinary people express or do in order to navigate society. It's usually not easy or convenient to always be explaining yourself publicly, so if pressed, I'd be more likely to tell someone I was just an androgynous boy or girl and just leave it at that if I wasn't going to interact with them for very long.
     
  8. Dryad

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  9. Secrets5

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  10. PlantSoul

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    It does contradict. Riley also claims that you don't have to experience gender dysphoria to be trans, when gender dysphoria is one of the major diagnostic criteria in deciding whether or not someone is trans. There's a reason why Riley is often referred to as a 'transtrender' even by some other trans people.
     
    #10 PlantSoul, May 16, 2017
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  11. Spot

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    It does contradict but what I guess she means is she's non-binary but feels more like a woman. I don't think she should really use the label "trans woman" if she's technically not because like you said, that means strictly female. But it's her life, I don't care what labels she uses.

    Also, PlantSoul, I thought that having consistent gender dysphoria was the only criteria for being trans? I don't really blame Riley for saying that you don't need dysphoria to be trans, it's a common (and dangerous) lie that's being pushed online nowadays, probably by tumblr. I think she has good intentions but she's just misinformed anyway.
     
  12. Mihael

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    Well let's look at this logically. You technically don't need to identify as the other sex to experience dysphoria, and you don't need to feel dysphoria to identify as the other sex. Those two are pretty different. I have no idea why they are being lumped together apart from the fact that two very different groups of people want to be referred to as not what they were assigned at birth.
     
  13. PlantSoul

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    http://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/pn.38.14.0032