Which label applies best to this convoluted situation?

I approved this thread for you. Sorry about that.. it got caught up in moderation.

 

Don't worry about other lesbians. Hell yeah you have a right. Call yourself what you like and if you end up being with someone who doesn't meet "lesbian criteria" or if your love life doesn't reflect all the "bisexual/lesbian" criteria, so what? That's you. I don't think you calling yourself this or that disrespects anyone of this or that because your love life and personal feelings has got shit to do with them. Only worry about your comfort level. Once you feel good saying "I'm this," then leave it at that and if you end up with someone who doesn't match what you said you were, who gives a fuck? Anyone who wants to be offended by what you label yourself or wants to tell you you're confused or being disrespectful...well they can respectfully go fuck themselves. Eh, I just don't think it's necessary to re-examine and re-label yourself all for other people's benefit, you know?

 

Dude, I totally agree about labels, not to your extent, but I do agree. Labels are important. People like to know what they're dealing with, what to expect from it and all that jazz. I love to know what I'm dealing with. I label as many things in my life as possible, use pre-conceived notions like a fucking black light when entering 99% of situations. I'm a neurotic freak like that. :lol: I don't take to all that "free love" or "love is love, man" hippy dippy stuff. I feel like I might have been giving that vibe or something, but that's not what I mean at all.

To answer your question about the lesbians being able to at any point in a certain kind of situation/environment be attracted to males for whatever reasons, yeah they can. I don't think that takes away from them being a lesbian. Probably more than half of the lesbian population started "straight" and been with dudes, even loved one or three. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be a term for girls who never have.

Honestly, what it really feels like you're asking (and I'm not trying to give you shit, so please don't get pissed) is for the approval of other lesbians and that's a foreign concept to me. The reason I feel like we're disagreeing a little bit on the label thing is because I am a total loner, so I don't care about the finding other people/community part. I don't relate to that desire. I'm not saying that's a good thing or that you wanting to be in a community of same persons is bad or stupid, I'm just explaining why I can't agree on the importance of labels to the extent you are. Basically, I see no point in over analyzing every bit of your sexuality post-coming out as whatever just because you didn't "start out" in the romantic world a lesbian. You banged dudes, realized you were gay, then started being with chicks. What more is there to discuss? You feel like you're not "pure" lesbian or some bullshit like that? :lol: The reason one would over analyze like you seem to be doing is to make sure they get in with the right group, their group, find their people, right? Yeah, that's what I don't get. I don't care for any of that shit, so it wouldn't bother me a bit to still call myself a lesbian even if I was dating a transsexual woman who wanted to keep her Johnson. I wouldn't feel like I was misrepresenting a community or my people and certainly not myself because well, I'm an anti-social fucker. :lol: I certainly don't care what other lesbians thought because I'm just not a community oriented person at all. I don't care that they'd think I'm not being a "pure lesbian" or "true lesbian," I bet that second one gets tossed around a lot. :rolle:

See, at first, I thought you were getting down on yourself over this, so I wanted to make you feel better, which is why I said only care about your comfort level because that's how I would approach any angsty feelings about it. Now, I feel like what you're talking about is the importance of being accurately labeled down to the letter and that being the key to approval by fellow lesbians (who most have probably had their share of dicks before coming out and stuff, too so it's not like they could be judgy about it and I still think anyone who is judgy about it is some kind of ego-dick.) Anyway, I like to keep things simple because my thinking is "who would I be trying to be accurate for" you know? The answer being other people, who I don't like because I'm a misanthropic bastard. hahaha So yeah. I don't know, hopefully some other lezzies can relate to you on this and give better feedback than I did. :icon_bigg

 

Sister, I understand your concern about labels, but it saddens me that you're so worried about "cheapening" or "appropriating" the term lesbian. It clearly applies to you. I don't think you're bisexual. I don't even think you're demisexual. Although you did describe it (as in, you have experienced genuine attraction to men as long as you had developed a significant emotional connection first, like friendship), the subsequent revulsion you describe around sex with a man worries me. I really, really don't want you suffering through trying to be with men if you don't want to be penetrated by them. I am a little worried that this is a continuation of a pattern of you being ashamed or scared about homophobic emotional abuse and therefore wanting to cling to some kind of straightness. But, honestly, I don't think it's really there.

Let me be clear. There's nothing wrong with you. You're not broken for liking women. Some people may be assholes about it, but they are patriarchal jerks anyway. They can't control your sexuality. That's yours, and nobody can take it away from you.

 

Oh okay, now I get why this is so important to you. I used to crave communities like that too, but always was or felt like a reject any time I tried to enter one, which led to these angry resentful feelings towards the whole idea of them. It was to a point where I would try to make myself fit in places I obviously didn't belong and it just made the rejection sting even worse. I have Aspergers, too, that went undiagnosed for my entire childhood/teenhood, so I totally relate to those feelings. It's rough trying to find a place to belong when you can't even small talk your way out of a paper bag. Also, now that I know you're an aspie, this very technical checklist approach of yours makes so much more sense and I'm sympathetic to it. I get it why you're approaching acceptance that way, you're just trying to be prepared for anything/everything. It's like the scripts I make for myself before walking into highly stressful social interactions.

Honestly, the only reason being misanthropic works for me is because I have someone. One friend, my very best friend, who became the important person in my life that I need to stay alive for. By some miracle, my last year of high school at a brand new school, when I was at that "I'd rather die than be alone any longer" crossroads, I met someone freakily just like me (loner homo aspie) just when we were both on the verge of calling it quits on life.

Once we bonded, I redirected my desire. I only wanted to be accepted by her, she became the only community I'd ever want to be apart of. And I for her. (In real life we really do talk this way about each other, call each other soul mates, other halves, and all. Would you believe that we're not romantically involved? Not many people do :lol Anyway, I decided I didn't need anyone else, especially not any kind of community because there's always that catch. Even though they say differently, there's always this air of "you have to be this kind of us to be accepted" and since I always fail to meet people's criteria, I didn't want to even try anymore. Then, thanks to the chance meeting of a lifetime, I don't really feel a strong need to try. It's kept us both in a very tight comfort zone, which is most likely unhealthy on the grand scale of things (because we're really codependent) but we feel good about it still. We'd rather be unhealthily codependent together, then socially healthy out there with people.

Anyway, I'm sorry you're in such a shitty spot right now. If it makes you feel any better, I'm pretty sure a majority of people won't get so technical about your sexuality. The ones that do will be assholes that other lesbians will probably tell to fuck off for you. I've heard people can be nice like that. I know the vote of confidence seems weird coming from me, since I basically just said I don't trust the whole lot or their system, but I'm super guarded and paranoid because of my own crappy experiences. Because of that, I'm aware there is a large cool part of all communities that is great to be a part of, I just won't touch any of it out of fear of getting burned again. Hell, I wish I could have been like those "too cool for school people" but I was no where near it. In school if someone smiled at me for even a second or picked up a pencil I dropped, I would have love-like feelings toward them for a long time and feel like I've been stabbed when they made fun of me later. That's how starved I was, so yeah I relate to the position you're in right now. I hope it gets better for you soon. (*hug*)

 

Yes, that might have gotten you more press. I think if you ask, someone will move it for you. I've seen that done a few times.

The only sense of the LGBT community I received was from the few people I met at University. I wouldn't say I was rejected. On the contrary, most of them were very nice and inviting. The only "problem" was with me. Sociability was my main problem as it is in many cases. I wasn't close with them like they were with each other, we shared nothing in common personality-wise, and spent little time together outside of club meetings. The only thing that linked us was that we were all some kind of gay, but that wasn't enough for me to feel a connection with them. So really the problem was that I didn't have a sense of community with the LGB people I knew because I never formed a connection with them just as people. I thought that we would become automatic friends and I would feel more comfortable around them because we were all LGB, but that didn't happen. I felt like I would in any situation with a bunch of people; ready to go back to my room. That make sense?

Now, a community that has openly rejected me is the black community. I suffer from NBES, Not Black Enough Syndrome otherwise known as YAWD, You Act White Disorder and had an ever pressing bout of WLD, Weird and Lame Disease. The black community where I grew up held no qualms about letting me know outright and aggressively how much I was not like them and how much that made me a life-time failure. This is where 98% of my anti-community feelings stem from. My sexuality had no priority growing up. Everything was centered around my area's brand of black culture; from a person's personality to the shoes on their feet, and everything in between and beyond. I failed everything, forever stamping me as the class laughing stock/punching bag. I was a weirdo and joke from 1st grade until the day I graduated. Hell, I even disappointed some of the adults in my life who felt I acted "strange" (white/odd) because I was articulate, but too quiet and wanted my Mom to shake me out of that, just a little bit. I could still be smart, but she still needed to make me more like a normal kid. Her only method to doing this would be to take my books away, toss me outside despite my protests, and lock the doors. Thinking about it conjures all sort of vile emotions, so I'd better stop here, but yeah this is the only sense of community I have and it's horrible. More horrible when I still trapped in it, which thankfully I am not any more. It appears that the only good thing ASD did for me was make teachers fond of me, the only positive thing I care to remember about growing up.

The remaining 2% of anti-community feelings come from attempting/wanting to attempt to become a part of other groups and failure/expected failure to do so. Not only does my experience give me eerie feelings toward communities, but just people and the outside world in general. It's why I am currently a hermit. I was talking to my Aunt about this yesterday and she laughed, saying "it's like you have post-traumatic stress disorder from your childhood." Perhaps, she is not wrong.

Also, I'd like to apologize for my second post. Reading over it, I find it to be mean and mocking. Now that we're actually having a conversation, I feel it's only right I explain that was me acting like the "clever asshole" character I created as a defense against any negativity or confrontation I might encounter amidst a disagreement. A while ago, I figured if I came off like a rude smart ass, it would make me feel safe from anyone who didn't like what I had to say and it might also make some people want to talk to me. After all, from my observations, many people seem to like "the playful jerk." Having completely dropped the character act, I regret taking that approach earlier. In case it caused you any bad feelings, my sincerest apologies. (*hug*)

 

That's great. Glad things are on the up and up for you. How did you make your friend, if you don't mind my asking?

I figured you most likely didn't notice. Honestly, it is really poor "clever asshole" persona, certainly not my best writing-wise. :lol: Since I knew what I had done I had to say something or I would have dwelled on the "what if" of it, something I do with everything.

Thanks for the condolences on my shitty childhood. I will say, though, that it gives me lots of writing mojo, so I feel like something good does come out of it in the long run.

 

:lol: Became obvious, did it?

That's really nice. At first the persistent ones make me shy away, but the ones who are persistent without being pushy or judgy make me interested in pursuing some kind of friendship, even if it's just a nice chat every once in a while if we happen to be in the same place at the same time. I look forward to the run-ins, rather than dread them when the extrovert is actually a cool, nice person.

Well, thank you kindly. haha Yeah I know right? I find it funny that some people think aspies are soulless robots. If anything I think aspies feel too much and the problem comes when one doesn't know how to process those feelings. At least, I feel like that's my problem. I'm extremely sensitive, yet come off indifferent in situations I tend to feel most strongly about. I think that's because I actively prohibit myself from letting loose all these emotions I have over every little (stupid) thing, so on the surface I look like a robot, but on the inside my mind is rampant with feelings/thoughts/questions, too many and never ending.

 

Wow, I could have written this myself. I have always been more attracted to women then men. But I didn't want to be. I thought I was asexual for the longest time because I could NEVER imagine being with a guy. I thought it was gross. I am 27 and I have been with 3 guys in my life. The first just happened, the second was more curiosity, the third was a dare. I was dared to hook up with someone in the next 3 months, and I did. And it was nice. Sex felt good. But it always just didn't feel right. I have always been attracted to girls. Ever since I could remember I fantasized about girls. I came to terms with being bisexual, but now I am even questioning that. I am not sure if I am bisexual or a lesbian to be honest. I am wondering if I actually am attracted to guys, or if I just feel like I should be. The question isn't whether I am attracted to girls or not, it's if I am attracted to men. So you are not alone. And reading this, you shouldn't be ashamed to call yourself a lesbian if that's what you believe you are. I hope something I said helped. If anything I hope you feel less alone knowing I am going through it too.

 

Idk willow maiden, I think that was mad funny to read but not all black communitys are like that... A couple where I was had a vibe from me I was gay n said they don't really care pretty much in a DL way which I understood. Also there was another white neighbor who was bothering me all the time with noise complaints so my black neighbors blasted there stereo n subwoolfer speakers at her doors to piss her off.

To be honest only the ones with crazy ego problems are to worry of.. they have something to prove or some shit who the fuck knows.

 

You are definitely a lesbian.

I agree with you and others completely that labels are very important, and if they're too vague they become pointless anyway, but sexuality is already such a vague thing. It's about a persons thoughts and feelings and emotions, the most convoluted things in the world. :lol:

Do you know of the Kinsey scale? Kinsey scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think it's very accurate in terms of how sexuality works. Even though you've had a relationship with a man and had sexual contact with men, even though you've briefly fallen for a man before, it doesn't mean anything if you're not attracted to men and find the idea of sex with a man disgusting. You fantasize about women and want to spend the rest of your life exclusively being with women. You're a lesbian.

There are too many variables for it to have such a strict definition, and the LGBT community understands that better than any other. It's so rarely ever black and white, we all chose the label we are most comfortable with and feel fits us. I meet gay guys who like boobs for some reason, but that doesn't mean they're not gay. I personally find Jason Statham quite attractive in an unusual way I can't quite put my finger on, even though I've never been with a man before and never would, but that doesn't mean I'm not a lesbian. and straight people have the same dilemmas, how many straight women are there who have experimented? I know so many. It's natural for human beings to be drawn to one another but have major preferences, innate and otherwise, that may rule out a whole gender for romance and sex. It's also worth noting that because our society is still not totally accepting of homosexuality, a lot of confusion is caused simply because of that reason, and people try to fight their own feelings.

So yep I think you're definitely a lesbian, and I don't doubt that other lesbians would accept you, that's not something you should worry about in my opinion. Good luck with everything

btw, I accidentally "quick posted" this message before I had finished writing it. I hope a moderator will pick up on that and only approve this one. I'm a newb and this was my first attempt at posting. Great start :lol: