1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Slurs and political correctness

Discussion in 'General Support and Advice' started by helloandwelcome, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. helloandwelcome

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    So I witnessed something recently on another forum I'm a part of. It's for a webcomic... and someone wrote a poem with the phrase "looks like a tranny" in reference to a very unlikable character. The forum was pretty divided over it. Some thought it wasn't okay at all and others defended the poster.

    It was pretty obviously meant to be taken in an "eww women with penises" kind of way, I'm not sure how else you could interpret that.

    So this person and the people defending him/her go on about the horrors of political correctness, how it's just a word, why on earth are you offended by a WORD, do you not have any self-control?

    I don't understand this mindset at all. If someone uses a slur against you for years and years, you are going to have a gut reaction to it. It isn't the word itself but the hatred behind it.

    So how can you completely disregard the feelings of people who've been on the receiving end of all that crap?

    I should be clear: the original poster didn't use it in a "trannies should die" kind of way. It was used very casually and I don't feel like there was any malice behind it. But you should be able to politely let someone know it's not okay and why without being accused of being too radical.

    Soo, thoughts from anyone else who has witnessed this? Is there any way to respond without immediately putting the other party on the defensive?
     
  2. LinkLarkin

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    England
    Oh my God, I saw something like this on facebook a few weeks ago and I was outraged. I didn't even care about whether or not there was malice intended, the fact was that it was pure ignorance. If your best friend is transgender then fine, maybe that gives you joke privileges. But for people who know nothing about transgender issues, the hell that a lot of transgender people have to go through every day of their lives, the constant battle for rights and recognition? The fact that they can casually make jokes about it as though it's nothing just enrages me.

    I wish I could give you tips for responding more calmly but I got into a huge argument about it on that facebook post haha. Apparently I get too easily offended, need to learn to take a joke etc. More like they need to learn to make a joke.
     
  3. unknown17050

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight but curious
    I for one have an unpopular opinion on slurs racist/sexist/homophobic remarks. I personally think the only way to get rid of these things is basically not get offended by them, I know it sounds harsh, but remember; they are words. That is all they are; those slurs like fag, nigger and what not were not even offensive words towards a particular race/gender/orientation when they were first invented, the word fag has a large historical usage, there was a time when a bunch of people who lived in the swamps of Mississippi who used that word to envision the puss filled pimple on the top of a frogs.... well.... genitals. Not to mention how the English used the word fag as a term for cigarette, another example; the word Nigger was used to describe a lazy person, not a black slave, the reason it stuck with black people is because in the south before the civil war, slave owners and plantation owners would use said word on them, and I am not surprised it did not stick.

    I could go on and on about this whole thing, but I think I made my point across. Words are words, and who ever says the pen is mightier than the sword has never been stabbed before.
     
  4. Owen

    In Loving Memory Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    It's funny. I bet if these people accidentally stepped on your toe, they wouldn't say, "Oh my god, it was just an accident. I didn't even step down that hard. How could you even be hurt? Don't be so sensitive." Yet replace toe with feelings, and sudden it's your fault that they hurt you. :rolle:

    That's the metaphor I try to use when explaining why words matter to other people. No guarentees it'll work, but it's worth a try.

    Edit:

    If I responded to that by saying, "Shut your goddamn mouth, you don't know shit," would you accept me saying, "They're just words," to defend myself? Would you honestly think not gettng offend would stop me from attacking you? I doubt it.

    Saying the only way to stop them is to not get offended by them is not only misleading, it's victim-blaming. It puts the responsibility for ending homophobia/racism/any kind of social oppression on the oppressed people, rather than on the opressors. And that's messed up.
     
  5. unknown17050

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight but curious
    Don't get me wrong, if anybody is giving you shit, personally; and of course getting physical, you best damn well defend yourself, but to cause drama because of words that got corrupted because of ignorant people is just ignorant in itself.
     
  6. helloandwelcome

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    See, and this only made it worse. When someone called this person out on using the word, they said something to the effect of "when my sister decided to become a man I had no problem with it, I love my sister. I know the word doesn't bother her." Okay... first off, I don't know if maybe your sibling is genderfluid or something like that and has no problem being referred to as your sister. But you can't assume that every trans person feels the same way about that slur.

    Ughh
     
  7. dfiant

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Gold Coast
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I think society as a whole has become very thin skinned, and rather than let things be, we tend to go out searching for the most innocuous thing to be offended by.

    The solution to the problem is not to pay any more attention attention to 'accidents', grow a thicker skin and take ownership of the words.

    Terms like fag, poof, tranny or whatever can't be used as a weapon (slur) when you take ownership of those words.
     
  8. unknown17050

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight but curious
    Thank you.
     
  9. LinkLarkin

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    England
    Wow, I take that particular part of what I said back then. I assumed that people who's had real exposure to trans* rights would be more sensitive to these sorts of things, but I guess ignorant people are just ignorant one way or another.

    ---------- Post added 5th Aug 2013 at 08:43 PM ----------

    I love this, I'm going to use it from now on.

    ---------- Post added 5th Aug 2013 at 08:45 PM ----------

    Society hasn't become thin skinned. It's just that we refuse to let ourselves be ruled by white, male, cisgender, heterosexual people anymore, and when we did there was no need to be thick skinned because barely anybody acknowledged the existence of minorities.

    Minorities are coming out of the shadows for the first time and people think it's okay to openly attack us. Some of them probably quite innocently think they're laughing with us rather than at us, but that's not the way it feels and it does nothing to advance our cause as a minority.
     
  10. dfiant

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Gold Coast
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    'Minorities' came out of the shadows in the 1960-70's.

    You came out of the shadows more recently :wink:
     
  11. unknown17050

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight but curious
    If you really think about it, that is not even the majority, I cannot say the same for Britain but in here where I am in America; the majority is what would be known as the Minorities as Blacks, Whites, Asians, ect. now outnumber them, more of them are in the government and what not, and to tell you a little factoid; I was the only white boy in high school.
     
  12. helloandwelcome

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    I think reclaiming words is great, but I feel like the best a lot of people can do is become desensitized. And that doesn't necessarily mean you'll feel neutral towards them, you might just not have as strong a reaction.

    Also in case there's anyone who thinks I'm all about lynch-mobbing people who use slurs: sooo not.
     
  13. LinkLarkin

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    England
    I was considering that to be recently. It took long enough to overcome racial segregation, 45 years isn't long enough to overcome homo/trans phobia, especially if we continue to enable people to use slurs.
     
  14. unknown17050

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight but curious
    People are going to be using them for many years, long after the inevitable gay rights laws are passed all around the world, even slurs towards race are still being used today. And technically; the gay rights movement started in the late LATE 60's. It only became a huge thing until fairly recently.
     
  15. LinkLarkin

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    England
    I don't think that contradicted anything I said.
     
  16. dfiant

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Gold Coast
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Words are used in jest, it is not worth the energy it takes you to even consider if it is or isn't offensive. Reclaiming/owning those words takes the edge off them.

    Words can be used as a slur, that is not what is in dispute at all, but just the mere fact that they are used does not INSTANTLY make them a slur.
     
  17. LinkLarkin

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    England
    But is this the attitude that black people took to make the n word socially unacceptable? If we don't fight for our rights and respect then nobody else is going to do it for us and we'll end up being looked down on by mainstream society forever. Reclaiming a word isn't as simple a process as you seem to think.

    Also, the point is that its offensive whether or not it's meant to be. Some people are just bigoted and hateful and there's little we can do to change that, but people who don't realise they're being offensive need to be educated and taking a stand I'd the only, or at least the only available, way to do that.
     
  18. Sorcerer

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Centre (France)
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I posted for a while on an American forum and the people there used the term fag or faggot quite casually. When I challenged them - they knew I was gay - they just said that the meaning had changed and it wasn't offensive.

    Mind you, most of them were right-wing gun-nuts who supported the death penalty...
     
  19. dfiant

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Gold Coast
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I have been out for over 13 years, I don't hide it, I don't advertise it, I don't demand respect, I don't get offended if you call be a effin faggot.

    I am very happy, enormously content, I have the best friends I could ever wish for....because I NEVER demanded respect...I NEVER demanded that people stop using offensive words...I have lived my life and earned the respect I have amongst my peers.

    I don't know what the rest of the world is doing, but whatever you are doing, you are seriously pissing off a lot of people by demanding acceptance and respect :wink:

    Grovelling and sucking up to people that are going to hate you sounds like an awful lot of work, and I would rather spend my energy loving the people that are in my life and just let thoe haters fall on their swords, because you know what...more people are going to stand beside you when you just get on with life. Start winging and complaining about offensive words and getting your knickers in a knot, people will move away from you because no one like s a whinger :wink: Not even this faggot arsed fudge packing poofter :wink:

    Peace and love wins the race slowly but surely :wink:
     
  20. LinkLarkin

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    England
    Okay. I respect your opinion but we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think that aggression is the right way to go about things, but I also don't think that sitting about expecting change to happen is right either. Change has to be made to happen, and I make no apologies for being somebody who prefers to proactively change the world for the better to the best of my ability.