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Harassing the homophobic?

Discussion in 'General Support and Advice' started by Budweiser, Jul 22, 2014.

  1. Budweiser

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    I've been having some political thoughts and I just wanted to get them out of my system a little bit so I hope it isn't too random/confusing lol.

    I read an article that defended a bakery that refused to make a cake for a gay wedding, because the bakery should not have to support something it doesn't believe in. I guess the bakery was harassed by members of the LBGT community so bad after that, that it had to close.

    I don't agree that a business establishment can just publicly pick and choose clients based on race, sexuality, gender, or anything. I actually don't know if they are allowed to- can a bakery refuse a cake to a black couple or would the government step in, or would the people have to rally like they did the gay couple?

    Does anyone think that the harassment was a good idea? I realize the bakery was being a jerk, but doesn't that kind of behavior just add fuel to the homophobic arguments?

    I tried to look up arguments in favor of racism to see what they were and if they were similar to homophobic arguments (I'm writing a comprehensive research paper in favor if homosexuality and I don't want to leave one stone unturned), but it was so disturbing I wanted to cry and I couldn't go on! Does anyone know if they're similar in any way besides just the hate factor?

    Thanks, I really want to know everything I can.
     
  2. HTBO

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    I do think that the LGBT community had a right to protest against discrimination, but to the point that the bakery had to close is too much. The idea behind protesting is to bring awareness to the issue, and in this case perhaps show the bakery owner that the behaviour was wrong and discriminatory. The LGBT community made the bakery owner a victim as well by forcing him to close his shop and as you said reinforces homophobia. It may be more constructive when incidents such as this happen to lobby for legal change if it's not illegal and if it is illegal, they should have used that in their favor. (or maybe that's what happened and owner couldn't pay fines or had to close for illegally discriminating?)
    Unfortunately, the hate factor and ignorance are key. The best we can do is to treat others kindly and with respect and to educate whenever possible. Sounds simple, but it's not. This is the society that has been created and existed for a very, very long time and despite belief that it is more accepting, there is a lot of evidence that supports society isn't more accepting. Racism, including homophobia has become more covert than in the past, but it hasn't disappeared.
     
  3. Candace

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    I think that the knife cuts both ways. They have the right to serve whomever they don't want to, but at the same time, their clientele has the right to be disgusted and not go to that store ever again, thus ruining their business. Unfortunately, it wasn't illegal, but I hope that states can change all of that :frowning2:.
     
  4. Wuggums47

    Wuggums47 Guest

    If we burnt people who think like that, it would produce enough energy to solve the energy crisis. And the best part is no human being will be hurt.
     
  5. Budweiser

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    That's the thing, I don't know if that's legal or not (I don't what to put it to look it up). I know you can't hire or fire any staff based on those things but what about serving? I don't think any "isims" or "phobias" will ever disappear, but as long as the main stream and the law are on the proper side that's what we need to aim for. As for the similarity thing I was looking for specifics, but the information was too disturbing and I didn't want to read it :frowning2:

    ---------- Post added 22nd Jul 2014 at 11:02 AM ----------

    One of the things that the article said would be a bad thing was the states telling bakers who they are to bake for, or photographers who they must take pictures of or who has to get married in churches. So I'm wondering well if it would be such a bad thing for bakeries to get in trouble for not serving homosexuals then are they also allowed to not serve black people? Islamics? People with blue eyes? If the answer is yes, all I plan to do is say "well, all right then!" if the answer is no, then I am able to say that that is then not an actual argument against homosexuality. Although I don't believe churches should be forced to hold gay weddings if they don't want to.

    ---------- Post added 22nd Jul 2014 at 11:05 AM ----------

    Well, historically the people burning those the ones they didn't like were the bad guys... I just think that if you want respect you have be respectable. Harassment I think is the worst way to go about it. Even though we are going to get the proper rights installed in the law, I would hate to see it go down in history with that sort of background. Does any of that make sense?
     
  6. dano218

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    Part of me is like well they will lose business and eventually shut down because they won't serve certain people and the other part of me is if your making a profit is discrimination really worth it and they should be willing to bake a cake regardless of any difference in opinion. If someone is so pathetic to the point where they think they are going to hell for baking a cake for a gay wedding than do they really deserve to own business. I personally think it is a bad idea. I remember my dad's cousin who had a strip club, bar, and a pornographic shop and also promoted prositution. The county eventually founds ways to shut down his businesses and threw him jail for promoting prositution. My point is if someone can have their business shut down for these activities while another business can actively discriminate against their customers.

    We are having a huge argument how far government can go in this county when it comes to having a business or what happens in your own home. My perspective is if your don't harm someone or their property like my dad's cousin the government should not interfere in their business. They can get gay married, smoke pot, sell porn, buy guns have strippers and other activities as long they are adults and not harming anyone or their property. That is the ideals I think could really unite America.
     
  7. HTBO

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    I agree with you somewhat dano218, but lack of government intervention is not necessarily a good thing. This was the case before the civil rights movement and it wasn't as simple as do what you want because people do get hurt if there are no consequences. Laws do not end discrimination, but protect against it and this is needed because some people will go to extremes if they are allowed. As long as the isms and phobias exist, government intervention is needed; it's the amount of intervention and type that needs to be questioned to ensure no one's liberties are at risk. History, not only in the US, but elsewhere has shown that that kind of freedom (no interference, or even encouragement) is very dangerous.
     
  8. dano218

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    I understand. I am not against laws when it protects against murder rape or hate crimes it is just about respecting people's choices harmful or not. Somebody should not get prison time for a drug offense or if somebody carelessly runs out in front of their car and they did. I think "what if" laws when it comes to guns or drunk driving are also wrong and it is the same as being denied to donate blood cause u had gay sex. Because it is a "what if" argument which I feel is unconstitutional.