The Art of Seduction

redghost · Jul 27, 2014

… or not really. I thought this topic might go in relationships, but since it's about the steps before being in a relationship, I put it here.

So: flirting. What's the deal on flirting? How can you tell if someone's flirting with you? So far, I've only known of two instances where I knew a guy was flirting with me, and then, it was only in hindsight (i.e. "Maybe that guy was just a really good employee… though he did call six different store locations just to see if they had the pullover I wanted in my size… and he did ignore four other customers to check up on me… repeatedly… and smiled at me a lot… and said he hoped I'd be back soon and to ask for him if I needed help again... okay maybe he was flirting"). I find that the general signs of flirting (showing interest in what someone's saying, eye contact, smiling during eye contact, excuses for physical contact, innuendos and teasing, etc.) don't always mean that someone is flirting. I (unfortunately) know a lot of (supposedly) straight/cis guys who can work up a flirty banter that can look like something, but is meaningless after all. And, some people are just really nice. I was taught by my family to look people in the eye when I talk to them, to give firm handshakes, to be a good listener because it gets people to trust me and makes communication honest and open. However, it doesn't mean I'm flirting.

So, if anyone has had any recent experiences of flirting/banter, please tell me all about, every detail. I find that reading about others gives me insight on my own issues.

greatwhale · Jul 27, 2014

I wrote this in my blog a few months ago:

I went to a Meetup recently. The group is called “Love Café” and it has nothing to do with anything LGBT. I just found the topic interesting and joined them for this talk. The group of people who showed up were all heterosexual, more men than women, at about a 6:4 ratio, and I would estimate the ages ranged from mid-twenties up to early sixties, so a good mix. It was held in French and there was a dinner afterwards for socializing that I didn't attend (for obvious reasons).

The title of the presentation, given by a local journalist, Jean-Sébastien Marsan, was “"Les Québécois ne veulent plus draguer”, which, roughly translated, means that Quebecers no longer want to flirt. This is also the title of his recently published book, written in collaboration with Emmanuelle Grill.

His thesis was fascinating and very much aligned with what I have read elsewhere about relationships. He is also involved in a dating website and has access to all of the hackneyed clichés that people use in their profiles. He proceeded to tear down the idea of “the one” or the soul mate, (no such thing), being “authentic”, which for many means spilling all about ourselves, good or bad during the very first date, then, by the second date asking if the person you met loves you! Or putting “being coupled” on a pedestal.

Marsan pointed out that our romantic imaginations are so impoverished that people can only imagine themselves as either single or in a couple, thereby completely negating all the other ways people can relate (I think LGBT folk have a better handle on this, what with unconventional relationships and all). He also pointed out the myth that being in a relationship will save you. Not so: if all one’s relationship needs are to be met by that one, significant other; that is too much for anyone to bear. All your own needs are loaded onto the other, like loading a camel…no wonder camels spit!

Being a couple in a vacuum only heightens the isolation both were trying to escape. No couple can long survive without a community. It’s most often why, amongst LGBT folk, open/closeted relationships are so difficult.

Marsan stated that for Quebecers, there is a myth that we are equivalent to our romantic counterparts in France. Not true, we are generally really bad at the language of flirting and of meeting people, it is almost impossible here to just approach some stranger (cold as the weather!), there is no code or understood language of seduction…Tellingly, there was a girl from the Caribbean at the Meetup who talked about how, back in her country, guys would do certain things to signal their attractions, and everyone understands what it means, but here, there is no such language…sad really, French was made for love!

Enter the Art of Seduction.

Marsan talked about a couple he knows who are now married. At first she thought that during the time they had been courting, that everything was an accident; "not on your life", said Marsan; everything, absolutely everything, was planned by the guy over a period of 6 months. Every “accidental” encounter, every move, gift, dinner, was meticulously planned in advance….She asked him later how it happened and he was completely honest with her…they’re still together.

There is a huge difference between getting into a relationship not to be alone and getting into a relationship based on the kind of desire that inspires the beautiful, devious and successful seduction of that couple mentioned above. Seduction is the game, and if it is seen as a game, rejection is so much easier to take. For too many oh-so-fragile people, a simple “no” hits them right in the heart. Because it isn’t seen as a game, the risk seems too great. For the seducer, the kind and flavour of that “no” will signal whether it really is a no, or something else…this takes skill and no small measure of strategy.

Seduction is also the sublimation of bringing courtship to another level. It has its own language, whether it be the language of flowers, or attentions, or even deliberate lack of attention! It is often the art of indirection, of taking the long way to the goal and thereby creating something out of nothing. It is the art of appreciating that getting “there” is more than half the fun! Many long-married couples miss those first days and months of courtship, there was a sense of danger and delight that marriage too often sacrifices. Indeed that couple mentioned above actually re-created, after their marriage, the things that were done during courtship, such was the fun!

I remember reading somewhere that there was a direct and positive correlation between the imaginativeness and creativity of marriage proposals and the duration of these marriages. It makes sense; these are what I would call “desire-based” marriages, relationships that want more than just cuddling on the couch to keep loneliness at bay. Such full-passionned relationships are sustained with the kind of creativity and vitality that went into the courtship.

Seduction is a game for grown-ups, yes, sometimes involving white lies (the kind that makes great art, to tell a greater truth, as Picasso would have said…no accident he was a skilled seducer), knowing your target and what is missing in their lives, knowing also that the target would never accept this kind of manipulation, and acting accordingly.

It is a puritanical, moralistic stance that prevents the kind of seduction that works. Indeed, during the Meetup there was some pushback on these ideas. The word “stalking” was mentioned. I asked why it was that one can only imagine the dichotomy of being either completely catatonic when it comes to approaching someone, or stalking! Where are all the other things in between these two extremes?

It takes imagination and skill to seduce, but more importantly, it takes passion and intelligence to create the work of art that seduction demands. This effort, almost by itself, guarantees a more satisfying relationship in the end.

If you want to learn more about this, read “The Art of Seduction”, by Robert Greene, it is eye-opening!
Click to expand...

Like all art there is a skill-set that should be learned. It's not very complicated, unless you make it so. How do you know you are being seduced? Most people don't realize it, you need to learn the cues, there is a language associated with it, but it's not just about saying something...

redghost · Jul 27, 2014

Maybe romance is dead. Or on life support. I know courtship is gone. From what I see, a lot of people hook up, and next thing you know, they're sharing an apartment and acting a lot like spouses, without actually being married, when they've only been dating for three weeks. Things move so fast, and they turn into these crazy toxic relationships, and they wonder where things went wrong.

The Art of Seduction

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The Art of Seduction

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