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Does anyone have a lot of experience with goats?

Discussion in 'General Support and Advice' started by Synthetik, May 31, 2015.

  1. Synthetik

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    I know this has nothing to do with the general purpose of this forum, but I'm at my wit's end, here. I've scoured the net, I've interacted on farm & vet forums, I've called my goat mentor and several other local goat dairies with whom I regularly exchange favors, and I've consulted with people who use the products I've tried, but nothing is really working.

    I have a fucking terrible ear mite infestation in my small herd, to the point that the ears of my newest stock (babies) are literally becoming solid ear-shaped scabs, rather than healthy tissue. I've done topical treatments on all the adults and given subQ ivermectin, and they're doing okay, but every goat under the age of 3 weeks is just miserable and I can't give anyone that young any injections. I've done mineral oil/tea tree oil/peppermint oil applications, topical permethrin-based creams, sulfur creams, DE powdering... nothing that's chemically strong enough to really fight an infection this bad is safe for kids, they're not even weaned yet. I've completely mucked out the barn and done both DE and dolomitic lime, and short of just tearing down the whole damn barn and building a new one, I'm not aware of anything else to try. Does anyone have any miracles for me?

    Also, somewhat relatedly, does anyone know a South Carolina-licensed civil engineer familiar with ecointegrative residential structures? *Lopsided grin*
     
  2. Argentwing

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    Have you tried going to an actual vet? Forums, while free, don't get you the attention you might need for such a bad-sounding case. If you've got the money, your little goats deserve some treatment. :frowning2:
     
  3. Synthetik

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    To give everybody who doesn't know about goats some background:
    The unfortunate thing about vets is they don't know shit about livestock, especially goats. There are a few travelling livestock vets in my area who will come out to people's farms, but they exist mostly to deliver highly-regulated medications that small farmers can't acquire on their own, and to help with breach births and the like, where perhaps surgery is required. They also specialize primarily in horses and cattle, with the occasional knowledge of sheep-- but there are a lot of treatments for sheep that will kill goats, and very few vets even know that.

    I am actually far more knowledgeable about goats than any vet I've ever met here, and my goat mentor was a licensed vet, and a licensed herbalist. Vets are, in this case, completely useless. If I went to see one, they'd want to put the kids on antibiotics and give them shots, both of which will kill them.
     
  4. Argentwing

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    So there's basically a hole in our medical knowledge where goat ear mites are concerned? That is equally surprising and depressing. I don't know squat about goats so can only wish you luck. :/
     
  5. Synthetik

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    Yeah, it's really strange-- not just ear mites, but a whole slew of goat treatments are based, in the medical world, on sheep treatments, like no one has ever successfully studied goats in a scientific context or something. I don't know why, it's baffling. So what you end up getting are vets that prescribe medications based on the body mass index of a sheep, or the appropriate size ratio of a sheep, and a lot of these mis-measured doses either prove ineffective or deadly in goats. The craziest part is how no vets seem to understand that disbudding goat kids is different from other horned ungulates, and vets will literally just burn right through their skulls. I've never seen a vet-disbudded goat without scurs.

    The nice thing is that there's a pretty strong 'goat people' community, full of farmers who understand these problems intimately and are extra-willing to help others. Raising goats is a surprisingly old-fashioned lifestyle, harkening back to the early colonial days when most white people owned even a small tract of land.

    Thank you for your kind wishes, though.
     
  6. Synthetik

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    Updates, on the off-chance anyone cares:
    All my kids are dropping one by one into anemia now. I've been sitting up with them all night, giving redcell and b-vitamins and probiotics and even some nutri-drench, and this morning I was like fuck it, gave .3cc subQ ivermectin to the worst two. We'll see how they take it. They're not vigorous right now, but they're still nursing and mildly interested in grain, and no one is dehydrated yet, and their famachas are still decent, so we haven't hit critical-emergency levels yet. If any of them lay down and don't want to get back up, I'll be digging graves instead of tomato patches.
     
  7. Chloe

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    My goat "expert" said:

    Sounds like they've done most of what I’d do, but here are a few things:

    Take babies away from barn, house them in clean dog crates with sterile bedding, maybe wood shavings. Nothing from the barn. Feed them milk replacer or goat milk from another herd in case mom is passing something to them.

    Never use mineral oil.

    Possible “miracle” products:

    ~ Grapefruit seed extract, both internally and externally as a natural antibiotic. I have cured many problems with it. It is available at health food stores or Hoegger goat supply online.

    ~ Ionic silver, both internally and topically.

    ~ Micro-tek makes a great skin care product usually sold for horses in farm stores. This is used on people too, for all sorts of skin problems.

    Excellent resource: Fiasco Farm website and their sister site, Molly's herbals
     
    #7 Chloe, Jun 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
  8. Synthetik

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    Oh holy shit, I didn't even think of silver, thank you so much!

    I do a burdock/dandelion root tincture straight from my organic herbal garden rather than grapefruit seed, because I honestly have difficulty finding trustworthy sources of 'popular' extracts, but I didn't realize Hoegger offered this one! I bet their product is worth a shot, huh?

    https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/eqyss-microtek--5090 Is this the Micro-Tek product you mean? If so, I'll see if any of my local stores carry it. I would be hesitant to use this in particular, with cetrimonium chloride, in addition to ionic silver, but maybe the spray will actually be better.

    Again, thank you so much for considering these problems with me and actually contacting your own resource and everything, I really appreciate it!
     
  9. Chip

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    Have you considered emailing/calling a veterinary school? Out this way, we have University of California-Davis, which is one of the best schools in the country, and they have a pretty large specialty in livestock. I know that their professors consult to the large specialty veterinary practices around here, so I'd be shocked if you can't find someone who's seen this before and knows how to handle it.
     
  10. Synthetik

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    That's not a bad idea! Do you think such prestigious people from that university in particular would be willing to speak over the phone to someone like me? Over here we've got Clemson, which is a primarily agricultural university, and I've had good luck with their ag-extension for things like infectious tree diseases I've had to treat in our area... but maybe they know a thing or two about goats, as well.

    Updates:
    The threat of anemia seems to have passed. They handled the small ivermectin doses alright, so I gave even smaller injections to the rest. It's usually a bad idea to under-dose with wormers, because you just end up with medicine-resistant parasites, but I figured in this case, it's worth the risk. Two of the kids are flaking off scabs already, so it seems like this one particular sulfur cream I tried on them is working quite well. It doesn't seem like anyone is continually getting worse, at this point, so I guess I've stopped the bleeding, metaphorically, and now it's just a waiting game.
     
  11. Chip

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    I've known a couple of people who did their training at the Davis veterinary program. My understanding is that for the most part, they're very focused on actually helping people (and animals.) Of course, they're also busy... so you might not get much time from, say, a senior professor. But I'd imagine a quick, focused email, describing a serious problem that puts a bunch of animals at risk, sent to someone knowledgeable, would probably get you a response, perhaps email suggestions or somehwere to call to speak with someone.

    In the academic world, there tends to be a lot of interest in sharing, particularly on topics where there's limited knowledge. So this might be somethign you'd find someone passionate about it who would be happy to discuss.
     
  12. Chloe

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    Oops, sorry, I missed the question when I stopped by earlier... that's the line of products; I think there's a spray and gel. My friend said "skin care products", so I'm not sure which exact formula, but on the phone I think she said the spray, and that it came in a large bottle. She thought it was worth the investment even if you don't use much. She's used it on herself.

    I hope you continue to see improvements.
     
    #12 Chloe, Jun 2, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  13. Synthetik

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    Updates:
    Improvement is consistent and noticeable. All kids are flaking off ear scabbing, although areas around back of head and neck are still stiff. Am alternating between topical permethrin treatments and one of the sulfur creams, which seems to be the best for soothing the irritated skin and encouraging healing. All kids responding well to burdock/dandelion orally. Have begun applying calendula salve to raw areas.

    Also:
    Ahahaha...
    "The reason goats are comparatively understudied as viable livestock is a simple problem of grant availability. Goats are neither as popular nor as viable for commercial production as their bovine and sheep counterparts, and the grant money simply isn't available for conducting any new research. To my knowledge, there are only three registered goat dairies in the entire state."
    Quote from rather short email response I received from an adjunct professor at Clemson. Thanks, mister professor man. Thx 4 ur time.
    This is why even ivermectin is off-label for goats.