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Christian and gay

Discussion in 'General Support and Advice' started by Marcy, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. Marcy

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    I've been trying to be okay with being both Christian and gay for several months now. It's gotten the point where I just can't stop hating life. I was almost able to be okay with myself by reading God and the Gay Christian, but I just stumbled across a passage (Matthew 5:17-20) that seems to say I should take everything in the Bible word for word and not challenge it's accuracy. I don't know how to argue that being gay isn't sinful now.
     
  2. littleraven

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    The people who interpreted the Bible were human so they may translate a word as meaning something it is not. I don't see the Bible as speaking against people in healthy same sex relationships.
     
  3. DinelodiiGitli

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    The Bible has quite a few bits which literally no one follows due to things like modern moral, law, etc. so please don't hate yourself over such a small part of that book.
    Not only was it a sign of the times it was written in but also has possibly many inaccuracies based on poor translations and other peoples' interference.

    You're fine. No loving God would condemn you for being who you are.
     
  4. gibson234

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    I'm not going to try to convince you that god isn't real or anything like that. But this is one of the reasons why I find religion so frustrating. There is this random book that claims a load of things that it can't prove and your letting it ruin your life.

    Jesus believe in giving to the poor and being humble. Can't people just take that. It's a reasonably nice message. Do we have to go though every god damn verse in this book and drag the most inmoral backwards rubbish. And accept it only on the basis that it's in the bible.

    The bible says slavery is ok. Are you going to have slaves? No. The reason it says having slaves are ok is because it was written thousands of years ago by people who had slaves. They also happened to by homophobic.

    I am fed up of hearing this, the bible says this about gays. Who cares? Jesus believed in loving your neighbour and never talked about gays. So for god sake, if you want to go to church and believe that stuff, go to church, give money to charity. But don't let that stop you from eating vigina, loving yourself and living you life.
     
  5. gibson234

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    I'm not going to try to convince you that god isn't real or anything like that. But this is one of the reasons why I find religion so frustrating. There is this random book that claims a load of things that it can't prove and your letting it ruin your life.

    Jesus believe in giving to the poor and being humble. Can't people just take that. It's a reasonably nice message. Do we have to go though every god damn verse in this book and drag the most inmoral backwards rubbish. And accept it only on the basis that it's in the bible.

    The bible says slavery is ok. Are you going to have slaves? No. The reason it says having slaves are ok is because it was written thousands of years ago by people who had slaves. They also happened to by homophobic.

    I am fed up of hearing this, the bible says this about gays. Who cares? Jesus believed in loving your neighbour and never talked about gays. So for god sake, if you want to go to church and believe that stuff, go to church, give money to charity. But don't let that stop you from eating vigina, loving yourself and living you life.
     
  6. bubbles123

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    I used to have trouble with that, but this video really helps:
    [YOUTUBE]ezQjNJUSraY[/YOUTUBE]
    Society has come to take what the Bible seems to say about homosexuality as absolute truth, but if you actually look at from an objective standpoint it's really not that way. Also, think about it. The point of religion and spirituality is that there's more to life than reproducing and dying. If you love someone and they love you back, as long as you don't just use them for sex or just to have kids, and you really and truly love them and feel happy with them, then that's what God wants for you. God doesn't want you to deny what would make you happy. He doesn't want you to sin because sins are things that may make you feel good in the moment but aren't good for your well being in the long run, whereas say being in a loving gay relationship isn't any different from a loving heterosexual relationship. There are things you could do that would be considered "sinful" like being promiscuous or lustful. A loving relationship is neither of those things.
     
  7. crystalgem

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    I'm also Christian and gay and after studying the Bible for myself, I came to the conclusion that being gay is not a sin. My whole explanation of how I came to this conclusion is a little long, but if you wanna hear it, I'd be glad to tell it :slight_smile:

    for now here's a verse I really like
    Romans 3:21-22
    But now God has made another way to make men right with Himself. It is not by the Law. The Law and the early preachers tell about it. Men become right with God by putting their trust in Jesus Christ. God will accept men if they come this way. All men are the same to God.

    It's basically talking about the Old Testament and that law, you know the one that said homosexuality is a sin and "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"? Well this verse says that Jesus made a new law when He saved us, which includes "turning the other cheek" instead of "an eye for an eye" and also that all you have to do to be accepted by God is have faith in Him.

    Hope this helps! By the way always here if you wanna talk :slight_smile:
     
  8. Chiroptera

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    Hello,

    Take a look here: Empty Closets - Religion and Homosexuality

    Also, with all due respect to religion, it is almost impossible and pointless to read the bible literaly, as it goes against the very purpose of the book (which is to bring order to things).

    For example, take a look at these parts. They are examples of why you shouldn't take everything in the bible word by word:

    Deuteronomy 22:11 "You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together."

    Well, what are you wearing right now? Chances are that you probably have some clothes like this in your possession.

    Leviticus 19:27 and 19:28 "You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard."
    "You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the LORD"


    So, if you have tattoos or if you cut your hair (or beard) like that, then you have a problem.

    Deuteronomy 14:8 "The pig, because it divides the hoof but does not chew the cud, it is unclean for you. You shall not eat any of their flesh nor touch their carcasses."

    Goodbye, sandwiches with anything that comes from pigs.

    Leviticus 19:19 "[...]you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together"

    Again, look at your clothes.

    Timothy 2:9 "I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes,"

    Self-explanatory.

    Timothy 2:11-12 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

    Again, self-explanatory as to why you shouldn't follow this one word by word.

    Summing everything up, if you are religious, you agree that the bible was written to bring order to things. If you are a good person and if you aren't harming anyone, then you are going in the right way.

    You don't need to follow everything in there. Even if you are religious, remember that the bible was written long ago, and some things don't make sense nowadays, if you read them literaly.

    The text may have a deeper meaning to you if you are religious, and that's fine. But, if you read everything literaly, you would be justifying slavery, woman submission, etc., which, you have to agree, doesn't make sense to the purpose of the bible. That's why you shouldn't interpret it word by word.
     
  9. crystalgem

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    also most of those laws are from the Old Testament, which Christians need not heed anymore in order to be saved because of what Jesus did :slight_smile:
     
  10. Marcy

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  11. crystalgem

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    He fulfilled the law. If you do not follow the laws of the Old Testament, you won't be condemned as long as you have faith in Jesus. All people without faith will be condemned but all who have faith will have salvation, although the Bible says that you get certain rewards in Heaven depending on how you devoted your life to God (sharing the Gospel etc)
    at least that's what my understanding was

    you do have a point though, I'll look more into it

    ---------- Post added 23rd Nov 2015 at 08:26 PM ----------

    there's also the view that homosexuality being a sin was not even part of the law in the old testament, look at older versions of the Bible, the word homosexual is not actually in it, suggesting that i was added as interpretations later

    ---------- Post added 23rd Nov 2015 at 08:34 PM ----------

    also this verse

    “Likewise, my brethren, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. While we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit” (RSV Romans 7:4-6)
     
  12. MetalRice

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    The way I look at it is that you should not take the Bible word for word, it was a book made by men who wrote it with their own influences and ideas, you should rather take the spirit of the book and the core message and take that with you instead.
     
  13. Anthemic

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    Hello, fellow gay Christian! I am also struggling with this. But in my heart, I believe that God loves us regardless. I also think that maybe the words were translated wrong, or in a way that best suited the translator. We are only human.
     
  14. crystalgem

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    Sorry if I'm being annoying with my responses but I thought I would share with you this one last thing I found, this person wrote an article about that verse and this is what he said about it:

    What is Jesus doing here? Is He taking us back to some kind of obedience to the Law as a means of salvation? No! But He is focusing His lens on the connection between faithful, heartfelt obedience and those who assume they will have a position in the kingdom because of their own home-made, self-justifying righteousness.

    If His disciples believed that they could earn a place in the kingdom by legalistic, self-justification, instead of with heartfelt obedience to God, they were wrong. That attitude has no part in the kingdom. Instead, kingdom righteousness requires what the Law itself required. It requires heartfelt obedience characterized by the love of God.
     
  15. Marcy

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    It seems like a passage in which the Biblical author directly quotes Jesus should be valued over a passage in which an author simply states their own understanding of something.
     
  16. Invidia

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    God loves you, Marcy! I'm sure that the God that lives in your heart and in the hearts of so many Christians and people love you, too! That means all of you, your thoughts, your gay feelings, everything. Let love guide you rather than you insecurites, dare to take that leap, it's liberating! :slight_smile:

    <3
     
  17. guitar

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    If you have Google Books, there's a free book you can read called "Dear God" by John Goode. It's written as a 20-page dialog between a gay teen and his pastor talking about what the bible says about homosexuality. Highly recommended reading.
     
    #17 guitar, Nov 23, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  18. Open Arms

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    Marcy, it might help if you looked up various commentaries on that passage made by theologians who know how to interpret the original Greek.

    The commandments referred to are the moral laws, not the Jewish ceremonial laws. To simplify... the Ten Commandments are not to be trivialized or changed or done away with.

    I am not a liberal Christian by any means. I believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God given by the Holy Spirit. If we study and interpret it carefully in its cultural and historical context, it is not at all full of inconsistencies and errors as many claim. It makes perfect sense. My doctrine is conservative. I believe in the Apostles' Creed. However, I am not legalistic or a fundamentalist because we are living under grace and our two overarching commandments are to love God and to love our neighbours.

    I studied what the Bible says about homosexuality over a number of years, and came to see that what I had been taught about it was just plain wrong. Since then, many other Christians have come to that same conclusion. God is upsetting the apple cart left and right regarding this issue, in many churches and Christians' hearts. Why did He wait until now to open the Church's eyes to the truth? Why did it take so long for Christians to understand His heart regarding slavery and women's rights? I don't know.

    So, all I can suggest is for you to hash this out with the Lord and ask Him to give you clarity about your sexuality and how He views it, and to give you peace about it. Also, don't act against your conscience. That will only create turmoil.

    I think your journey will lead you to accepting the truth that you can definitely be a Christian and gay. Of course, we still have to abide by God's standards which I believe includes no sex before marriage or before a lifelong monogamous commitment if gay marriage is not allowed in your state or country. We don't impose these standards on people who are not followers of Christ, but should aspire to them if we claim to be His disciples.

    May I suggest you find some Christian gay friends who have been through this struggle already? There are lots of dedicated gay Christians out there.
     
  19. Secrets5

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    ''man may not lie on top of another man''

    Another interpretation could be that God was saying that no human should be above in terms of hierarchy another human being. But of course the higher classes [i.e. the Pope, as they didn't have Marxism in the 1300s] would want to keep their higher class status so made it about sexual activity.

    That's my interpretation, anyway.
     
  20. PatrickUK

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    When we selectively quote passages from the Bible, like Matthew 5:17-20, we enter into a spiritual no-man's land, where there are no winners and only losers. It can be very dangerous to place too great and emphasis on the precise meaning or syntax of any passage from scripture, because there is so much about those ancient passages that we do not know and cannot comprehend. When we go down that route we can damage our confidence and emotional wellbeing and find ourselves in a depressing cycle of questioning our sexuality.

    Since you quoted Matthew 5:17-20, let’s take a moment to examine that passage and set it against a few others from the gospels and wider New Testament.
    In Matthew 5:17-20 the author has Jesus saying:
    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

    So it’s clear then that Jesus is supporting every detail of the law, isn’t it? Well, only if you read Matthew 5:17-20 in isolation and become fixated on what it says.
    If you look at Mark 7:14-15, Jesus seems to make a very contradictory statement:
    14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

    Does that sound like Jesus is upholding the law? Not at all, because according to the law, some foods are impure and unclean and must be avoided. Very clearly, Jesus is rejecting that precept. In Mark 7, Jesus makes further contradictions to the law and berates the Pharisees who seem to be concerned with petty rules and detail, in complete ignorance to the higher meaning.

    Who was the law written for? Was it written for a community of Christians in the 21st century? No, of course it wasn’t and we must take that into account when we read Matthew’s gospel. Matthew was almost certainly written for a Jewish audience c.2000 years ago – an audience who rigidly followed the law – and whilst much of the gospel can be applied to our lives now, we must not enslave ourselves to it. We are not adherents to the law. In Galatians 3:23-24, Paul outlines the position for a Christian community concerning the law.

    We absolutely must understand that Matthew was for a Jewish audience (adherents of the law), in the same way as Luke was for a Gentile audience, but we must also understand that Mark's gospel preceded both and the important themes of Mark are often picked up later and embellished by Matthew and Luke.

    I could go on and point out further contradictions from the gospels, but this isn’t a Theological study. What I’m attempting to demonstrate is that we cannot hold our lives to ransom on the back of one passage from the most Jewish gospel of the New Testament. It’s a silly and life limiting thing to do. Remember that Jesus taught us to love God and our neighbour… there is no commandment greater and that he came so “they may have life, and have it to the full” (John 10:10). My challenge to you is to live your life to the full.

    Don’t get hung up on detail… that’s what the Pharisees did! :slight_smile: