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Both me and my trans girlfriend have been barred from our local pub!!

Discussion in 'General Support and Advice' started by Kinzey, Mar 24, 2016.

  1. Kinzey

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    Long story short .... My trans girlfriend was told at the beginning of the year that there had been complaint for her using the female toilet in our local pub. Both her and the Land lady came to an arrangement for her to use it. This was followed and nothing was said until last weekend when once again she was informed by the land lady that there had still been complaints and once again she wasn't allowed to use the female facilities.

    We both know the law on the situation. You can use the toilet facilities suiting your gender. You are just not allowed to use the disabled toilet if you are not classed as disabled.

    A so called friend of ours who is also transg female secretly took a video of a convocation of us 3 discussing the situation. At the end of the day what the bar staff had said, she is just doing her job with what the land lady had told her. Our so called friend then uploaded it to Facebook and by hat has happened this evening it's gone viral!

    Both me and my girlfriend literally entered the pub this evening when bar staff obviously when to get the land lady to tell her that we had come in. She came down, turned down the speakers and read out about 'being the right down to the business owner and their discretion' ... My girlfriend said to her twice could they do this in private as there was several people in the pub who are or shall I say was friends. Instead, the land lady didn't listen and continued to read. My girlfriend said to her, 'are you barring me?' The land lady replied 'I'm barring you both!' We both walked out and as we left someone had shouted... 'GO ON GET OUT!'

    We are aware this is discrimination towards my girlfriend and this isn't right.

    We would really appreciate if someone could give us some advise on how to go about this to get legal advice? We know and understand we won't ever possibly get un-barred but this isn't right and we need to take some form of action.
     
  2. Euler

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    I'm not entirely sure if I understood the situation. Is it so that a friend of yours secretly recorded a conversation between you, your trans GF and a pub worker who on the orders of her boss barred her from using the female bathroom because recent complaints about her use of female bathroom?

    I'm sad that this happened to you but it's unlikely that suing the business owner would do you any good. I don't know what the law says about the rights of the property owner to direct who can use which bathroom but even if the law is on your side you are likely to lose the battle over hearts and souls of the people. That video brought tons of negative publicity to a small business entrepreneur and she and all the pub regulars are going to hate you if you sue her. Even if you win you are unlikely to ever feel welcome there again and a lot of people will see you as the bad guys here. It's obvious that she is not doing this to you because your GF is trans. If that was the case she wouldn't have let her use the female bathroom in the first place.

    If I were you I would attempt to try to resolve the matter privately with the owner. Write her a letter or email explaining her that you were not aware of the recording or that it would be put online. Also, it might be a good idea to ask your friend to take down the video and put up an explanatory note which would give more balanced view of what has happened. This might be enough for the pub owner to cancel your ban once she has cooled down.
     
  3. Kinzey

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    We have asked her a few times not to put it up and once we found out she did she wouldn't take it down. The land lady supports my gf transition and has done For the past nearly 2 years. The complaints are from genuine females about her loosing the toilet as apparently some of then have said its wrong or that she may even assault them in the bathroom.

    There has been a case known before regarding a trans woman using the female toilet when a genuine woman came in a verbally assaulted her. The woman went to speak to the land lady about her being verbally asulted, the land lady's response was to ban her not the one who did the asulting.
     
  4. Euler

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    Your GF has not transitioned yet? Or how did the complainer know that she was in the wrong bathroom?

    From the business owner's perspective it makes sense to ban your GF from using the toilet and not those who complain if her presence there generates more than 2 complaints. If she is banned and gets upset about it, the pub is going to lose only you 2. If she ignores the complaints she stands to lose much bigger share of the business. It might not feel right but it makes business sense.

    Considering that the pub owner has been supportive of your GF's transition I see absolutely no moral reason to sue her. She is right to be angry about her being painted as a bigot when she clearly isn't. If your "friend" refuses to take down the video you could perhaps write a more balanced description of what happened and denounce the video. Put that on FB and the FB page of the pub if there is one and hope it gets similar attention.

    Depending on where the video was recorded your friend might have violated privacy laws by not disclosing that she is recording the conversation. This could be a leverage point in trying to convince her to take it down.
     
  5. Aberrance

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    It doesn't matter if she doesn't 'pass' or reached a stage yet in her transition where she does, she has the right to use the bathroom of the gender that she identifies with. You're playing into the extremely high standards the majority of soecity holds trans people at which is extremely harmful for the community and peoples mental health because the only thing that becomes important is the need to 'pass' instead of being yourself and finally being happy.
    ___

    OP, I'm really sorry that I don't have any advice for you but I read your thread a couple hours ago and found it absolutely disgusting that you've been barred but seeing as only one person has replied I thought I'd attempt to offer some support. In some ways I can see where the above poster is coming from. The owner probably banned you because it's better in her eyes and for her business to lose only 2 customers rather than however many that might complain. It's not moral or right of her to do that but some people just don't care enough. She did try at the beginning so I give her some credit but if people stop trying as soon as it gets a bit tough then trans rights aren't going to go anywhere.

    The landlady definitely shouldn't have announced your barring infront of the entire pub. That was completely unnecessary and unprofessional. She didn't give you the benefit of the doubt or talk somewhere privately, that's not on. Honestly though, I think you have to know when to pick your fights. That sounds like a toxic place to be right now and it's not safe for your girlfriend. I know it's not right for you to be barred but it's probably better not to be around that place, barring or not. I don't think sueing or legal action would do much in this instance. Do you have any local trans support groups around you that could give you some advice and guidance? Sometimes they can be of use. Honestly, in my opinion, I would just move on from this and forget about it. I understand that you want justice and you can try to contact the landlady (maybe by letter or email) and explain to her how you feel and that what she did wasn't right. I'm not sure how much good that will do though. She's trying to preserve her business and that's going to be her priority at the moment.

    Whatever happens though I hope you and your girlfriend are okay, are able to move on from this and stay safe.
     
  6. Euler

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    If we are talking about "moral" right to use any bathroom you want then I would say it's debatable whether such right exists or should exist. However, that was not the point of my question. I asked because it helps to put the incident into a context. If she had transitioned already then it's more than likely that the complainer was just being a prick. If not, she might have genuinely be concerned that there was someone who she perceived as a man in the bathroom. As we all are aware women face a lot of harassment from men in public spaces - especially when guys are drunk. A pub could plausibly be such an environment. Some of my female friends have told me that sometimes in a club or a pub they go to ladies room to avoid harassing jerks that it's kind of a guy free safe zone for them.

    As a man I also face many prejudices from women. If I'm walking alone in the street after dark and there is a woman walking nearby she usually acts like as if I'm a potential rapists. She will try to change the side of the street, clutch her purse and one even got a pepper spray out of her purse and visibly kept it in her hand. No one is a mind reader and I certainly don't blame for these women for being concerned of their safety and taking precautions. Yes, I don't feel very good about it but which one is really more important concern? Someone fearing for their personal safety or my discomfort as indirectly labeled as a potential rapist?
     
  7. Kinzey

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    My girlfriend has been full time over a year and only wears female clothing. She has started hormones as well. She has legally change her name back in October which the Land lady is aware of. As she was the one who said she could use the female toilets. But at the beginning of the year apparently there was complaint. My gf and the land lady came to a compromise for her to do her face and wear her breast forms. She has done this ever since then and as far as we where both concerned it was all going fine. But more complaints have been going on but it's not the regulars... Is just random people coming in as they pass by.

    The complaints are for other woman as well as men. basically they have said as she still has male gentialiar why does she have to use the women's? The woman have been a bit odd with it as well. She has the documentation to state that she is now legally known as female.
     
  8. Euler

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    OK. Then the complaints sound unfair to me. It's pretty far-fetched that a random dude would put on a dress just to be able to go women's toilets to harass women.

    However, this doesn't change my point of the futility of any legal action. The owner probably grew tired of the complaints and figured it's easier for her if she just instructed your GF not to use the bathroom again which is sad.

    Give it a time and write the owner a letter explaining your position and that you had nothing to do with the video being recorded or posted online. Maybe overtime she will cool down and let you back in without any resentment. Defending her in FB might also be a good idea since I'm fairly sure that the video gives completely wrong picture of the owner and she is rightly upset about that.