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Problem of language

Discussion in 'General Support and Advice' started by FluffyLightFox, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. FluffyLightFox

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    Hey there, folks. Skip the top if you're in a hurry.
    I'm back again (I guess because you haven't seen the full extent of my insanity, or I want to sort something in my messy mind and writing about it to strangers is somehow a good way of doing so, regardless). Good news : this problem is actually deeply tied to me understanding my sexual/romantic orientation a few years ago, more than the rest of what I shared here on EC (so, hey, I'm not wasting your time that much today).
    So I guess I'll do like in my previous posts, there will be some rambling/venting and boring context in spoiler, and the summary preceding the question at the end (since I don't want to bore people with my story).
    Alright, here we go.

    The issue here will probably be easier to discuss about, but there is still some backstory.
    I didn't speak English until I was 13 and a half. I didn't understand what being gay was until then.
    I had my first crush when I was barely 13. At first it didn't hit me, I couldn't place words on it, and when I tried, it didn't work, and I felt blocked - so he never knew. I stopped seeing him after I moved merely 400km away, and it took months of crying and dissociating to erase the feeling of love. Something else helped though.
    In September 2014, when school started at the place my family had moved at, I found myself very sad and hopeless. I don't know, I think I hoped to find some cute guy there and have another crush to help me forget the other. Sadly that wasn't the case, and in fact, I didn't connect with anyone in my class that year. So, I did what I thought was best : I buried myself in work. Since age 9, I've been mesmerized by what computers can do, and by the ability to use and control them. I had done some computer programming but nothing very serious. That month, I started doing some work again, and I think that's when I picked the habit of spending about 95% of my free time laid on my bed with a laptop over my lap (as I am right now and have been for a few days; yey, healthy!).
    Where am I trying to go? Back then, I was barely able to write more than three sentences of comprehensible English. However, English is the language that most programmers use to communicate around the world when working on projects and stuff, so, naturally, when I started talking with other programmers, started working on languages, and all of that, my English improved, enough so that I started consuming other things in English.
    I started watching TV shows. Pretty normal thing to do. I also did something that I didn't would have such big consequences : I started reading stories of gay romance (through actual short stories, manga, etc) after stumbling upon some. By October, my understanding of what being gay meant was shaped by such stories (which I found out was not entirely healthy, I also needed some realism), and by then two things had hit me : 1° I was able to comprehend my attraction for males, and I had words to describe and understand that, in English that is, but 2° I then felt like a big outcast, a monster that had to hide behind a mask, from the rest of the world. Isolation combined with a feeling of not fitting in, emotional immaturity and hopelessness : boom, depression.
    I kept my will to live by reading more, and working more, to a point where there wasn't a day where I would not work on some program (and that went on from Nov. 8, 2014 to Nov. 10, 2016), but each story of love reminded me of how lonely and tight the closet was. I stopped for a while, but I got back and read more, because if it wasn't for the hope that love existed for me (which drove me to the belief that I had to find a boyfriend to feel happy, and thus more feeling of loneliness), I'd have tried killing myself back then.
    For a while (starting about a month after the romance stories) I had also been reading on gay (and LGBT in general) right issues, and more realistic things, mostly about how bad people like me, like us, are treated in the world, but again, all the resources that I sought, all those that existed and were really well documented, were in English (or maybe that was a search engine bias), but by then, I was comfortable enough to ignore that (I wasn't at the point where I would barely be able to distinguish between English and French, but close).
    One day, in early 2015, I had the weirdest idea. What if I tried to read something in French for a change? That's when it hit me. I tried, but a few words into it, when I had encountered the first words related to homosexuality and attraction, I freaked out. By freaking out, I mean my vision went blurry, my mind went on overdrive (as if thousands of voices shouted at me at once), my neck hurt, and my head and hands shook. It felt like physical pain. So I closed the tab and calmed down. I ignored it until one day it happened again. I encountered the French equivalent for "cute", and I had a similar reaction. The same thing would happen for a few other words (although with different intensities) like "love" or even "gay" (in the context of a French sentence). I knew those words, I had known them before I even knew what I was. In English, they had a meaning to me, they had a value, but in French, they scared me, grossed me out, or some felt bland.
    I identified the issue and rationalized it, and I decided that I would isolate things in two categories as to not hurt myself again : French would be left for all the daily, mundane and meaningless routine of real life (mostly talking with my parents, or at school, because hey, I don't do anything else) while English would become my primary language on the Internet, where I'd be honest and open. That went well for a while.
    I didn't think about how damaging it could be until I was in my first relationship. I was pondering the fact that a LDR lacks physical closeness (which makes sense but I didn't realize how it affected me at first). My ex and I always talked in English, as it was the only language we spoke in common, and in fact, all the people I've ever approached online with the idea that I was looking for a relationship spoke English to me, and I spoke English to them.
    Ending my relationship I was convinced that the lack of closeness between us had broken us apart, but I was faced with the issue that there was simply no way I could date someone IRL with the openness that the artifice of talking in English provided me. So, how can I deal with French when almost anything in the realm of sexuality or romance freaks me out? I had no clue, and I still don't have any. I'd like to add that despite still being bad in Spanish, I manage to address those topics without a problem.

    Alright, so :
    • Anything related to sexuality or romance in my mother language makes me deeply uncomfortable or freak me out (unless I rationalize it, for sexuality)
    • This affects me as I am unable to address those topics with people IRL unless they talk in English
    • It only affects me in French. Other languages I've been experiencing with like Spanish are fine.
    • I don't plan on dating any time soon but this issue still worries me as I'm probably not leaving my country until I'm.. way too old

    I'd like to see what you'd recommend me to do, and your opinions about this issue. Sometimes I really feel like I'm just insane and I should just.. I don't know.. get rid of my mind? I mean, sometimes it's just easier to scrap everything and restart from scratch.. though maybe the analogy doesn't work between source code and human minds.

    If anybody here relates, then that's cool, otherwise, I'm sorry for wasting your time.
     
  2. Lacayda

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    Maybe you should try to figure out the reasons behind your problem of not beeing able to talk about sth. sex-related in French. I can kind of understand you, since I also find it way easier to talk about sex and me being gay in English. I think that might be like that becaus I really dislike the German word for lesbian. But I at least try it. I'm member of a German forum for lesbians and there I am able to talk about myself. I just kinda got used to it.

    Maybe you should just join a French LGBTQ+ forum and start talking about those topics in your own language anonymously (I have no idea how to spell that word correctly:lol:slight_smile:. Like that you might become more comfortable with talking about your sexuality and other topics like that.(*hug*)
     
  3. Luca00

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    As a French guy who used the Internet (which, for the most part, is in English) a lot to understand what my sexuality was, I can relate to you: I think saying "I am gay" is much more easier to say for me than "Je suis gay", and it's even worse for sexual-related stuff.
    In my case, I think it comes to the fact that I separate my very personal life (when I'm in my room alone, going around the Internet, where English is everywhere) and my everyday life (family, school, friends, when I speak mostly in French), so bringing something from my personal life to my everyday life makes me a little uncomfortable.

    So far, I haven't found a solution to it, but I think trying to speak to people about these kinds of subjects (if you have somebody to talk about those things) or, as Lacayda suggested, registering on a French-speaking LGBTQ+ forum might help you overcome that. Good luck! :icon_wink

    PS: if you wanna talk about anything, don't hesitate! :slight_smile:
     
    #3 Luca00, Feb 27, 2017
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  4. FluffyLightFox

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    If I may add some piece : I also did all of my sex education in English (because 1° my school was too late to bring me the info - or I was previously to ashamed to listen to it and 2° I was never taught anything other than puberty stuff, dangers of porn, and I think that's about it, so.. I guess my straight/bi classmates had (part of) their answers already from outside of school, or so they thought, but then gay students are left wondering where in the name of Odin to find answers).

    (You spelt "anonymously" right :thumbsup: )
    Trust me, I tried. I went through a long time of cringing and feeling disgust and pain but I searched. There are forums, but they're abandonned, generally dead. That led me to wonder where all of the other gay (or generally not cis-het) French teenagers were, or if we still lived in such a bad time that we had to hide/blend in. Maybe most of us resort to learning English as best as we can and work from there (like I did, and others did).

    (Sorry, I had to censor your sentence, it caught me off guard and I.. I just couldn't)
    At least you kind of confirm the above theory. I'm happy to know I'm not the only one in a similar situation.

    I relate to that, although, I don't find it difficult to occasionally talk English with my classmates, even though I've never really tried explaining them the intricacies of sexual intercourse between two males (in a genital, mental and physical sense). I'd not try to attract that kind of attention to me.
    It just feels weird with my family (when it happens). Sharing personal stuff has always felt very weird (especially with them), and I think you've got a point : even reading words related to anything personal feels like I am the one saying it, and may trigger the reaction of fear associated to them.

    I do have a friend to talk honestly about that, the thing is, we've always used English in our conversations (at first to avoid eavesdropping, being the only fluent kids at school, then simply because it felt more natural to us), but we would both be weirded out (we tried, it was.. awkward).

    Yep. Nope. See above..

    Thanks for the replies though. :slight_smile:

    EDIT:
    I don't talk to people here.. maybe I should. I feel like that'd be a bother, and I haven't figured out the forum's messaging systems (yet?).
     
    #4 FluffyLightFox, Feb 27, 2017
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  5. Iliricon

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    Ok, this is really normal in my experience. Gay is normal for me, but the german equivalent of "schwul" is so loaded for me that I absolutely hate saying it. I can shout I'm gay but "schwul" will probably not leave my tongue. This is really common around here, as Lacayda pointed out.

    Us non-english speakers basically never had the word "gay" used as a slur against us, while "schul" or the derogatory form "Schwuchtel" is still very common, especially in schools.
     
    #5 Iliricon, Feb 27, 2017
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  6. Lacayda

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    I think this is a very important point. We just don't associate the word "gay" with something that has been used against us. So for us it's a neutral word to describe ourselves
     
    #6 Lacayda, Feb 27, 2017
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  7. Lin1

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    I think it's normal and I can kind of relate to it. I live abroad and French is my native language but in my everyday life English and Spanish are the languages I use daily. Personally, while I don't feel uncomfortable talking about relationships or even sex in French (or in any of the languages I know) some words have deeper feelings or emotions attached to them if said in my mother tongue rather than in English or Spanish. For example I have no problem saying " love you" or " I love you" or " Te quiero" to people I care about but " Je t'aime" is like a no go. I just feel very uncomfortable about the idea of ever saying " Je t'aime" to someone while "I love you" and "Te quiero" is fine, it's a bit like if the French words carry more meaning than the English and Spanish equivalent. I do think it is normal. Saying something personal in our native language do bring a totally new dimension to things and I think it's okay to be uncomfortable by it. I personally wouldn't worry. :slight_smile:
     
  8. BadassFrost

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    I guess there are many people with the same problem. My native language is Czech, and sometimes I struggle with this as well.
    I have no problem saying simple words like gay / lesba (gay / lesbian, almost the same), or even "teplý" or "teplej" (another Czech word for gay, literally means "hot"), but I'll never say "Já jsem gay" (I'm gay) because it just sounds so weird to me. Instead I just say "Já jsem na kluky" (I'm into guys). Strange thing is, that I have no problem saying it in Slovak, "Ja som gay" where the pronounciation is almost the same. It's only problem of native language.
    Saying "Miluju tě" (I love you) is also hard for me.
     
  9. Iliricon

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    Actually posted it on Twitter and most of my German friends agreed with my thoughts. This seems to be an extremely common problem.

    Even within the community, we jokingly use "schwul" to tease each other. Which is kinda depressing, if I think about it like that... Like someone within a gay club would say "Eww, Schwule" when I kiss my boyfriend. It is a joke but it shows how ingrained that is.

    Just yesterday I walked through a mall, and an entertainer made a gay joke. We are "celebrating" carneval right now, which is one of the most horrifying things on earth (think Oktoberfest with really bad jokes and incredibly bad costumes) and they had a clown for little kids, pre-school and elementary. He made a joke about "schwul" and all of those kids laughed, even though they probably have no concept of what gay actually means. "Schwul" is still basically synonymous to "ridiculous" in many strata of society. I considered confronting him, but I did not want to make a scene in front of a hundred people.

    Edit: One friend said "Nein das liegt daran, dass die deutsche Sprache echt kacke ist, wenn es um Begriffe geht die mit Sexualität zu tun hat…" which is "No, that has to do with German being completely shit if you want to talk about sexuality"... We really seem to hate German :-D
     
    #9 Iliricon, Feb 28, 2017
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