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Old 18th Mar 2017, 04:33 AM   #1
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Could I give up and move on?

Hey there, it's your regular demoralizing threadstarter here, coming with another piece of thoughts, probably half rambling/ranting, but, maybe that'll help.

This one is.. not that long so I'll just put the context in spoilers.

Context 1 :
Spoiler


Question 1 :
Why should I do it? And I don't mean why should people try to work on their physical and mental health and try to accept themselves and assert their identity as much as they want, I advise everyone else to do that, but why should I do it too? I hate feeling like a hypocrite, but, I'm not everyone else.

More context :
Spoiler


Final question :
So if I've found a way to deal with it, and even if it won't work all the time, why should I find the courage to come out? Why should I go see a therapist? Why should I work on my language problems? Why should I want to try to put myself out there to date? Why should I want a relationship? Or an honest connection with my parents? Or confronting my issues when it's clear that if I stop ruminating about them I see things things brither instead of a foggy reality tainted by depressive thoughts?
Why can't I just be the quirky furry memelord who codes and draws and studies well? Why do I also have to be the gay teenager who's dealing with gods-know-what in his mind, who has made zero progress towards coming out and when he does eventually slides back to square one, who has self harm scars all over his arm, all of that jazz because he couldn't accept the fact that he's gay, back when he didn't know English, and all the hardships that will come with that?
Why couldn't I stop acknowledging the issues I'm sure I partly, unintentionally, created myself are there and simply focus on the rest?
Why should I continue pointing out to myself that I'm different, in a bad way, from everyone else? Couldn't I just scrap out every bad bit and convince myself there's no issue, and then live a life, not of lies (I ain't saying I wanna fool people into thinking I'm straight), but of distraction, supporting others, school work, programming projects and drawing?

Couldn't I just accept that I've given up on finding that kind of happiness, and move on? I know it will most likely not work for many people, and I wouldn't recommend it to them, but it seems to work to me. Is that reasoning faulty?

On that note, have a good day.
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Old 18th Mar 2017, 05:12 AM   #2
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Re: Could I give up and move on?

Why you should come out and tell people you are gay? You don't have to accually, it's just that when you acknowledge it, you become a different person. You are not who you once were. Now, you are changed and you can't act like you are the one you used to be. I don't think you can give up on that happiness and move on because It's really exciting to like who you like. I think you have right to try to avoid it but can it really make you feel better? Or will it make you feel like some other person?
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Old 18th Mar 2017, 09:45 AM   #3
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Re: Could I give up and move on?

Okay, I read your text, and I want to give answering my best shot.
The situation you describe vaguely reminds me of a situation I was in a few years ago. Along with going through my initial phase of doubt about my sexuality, I was also batteling an eating disorder. In order to have the peace and quiet required to heal, I stopped thinking about my sexuality for a while in order to be fully commited to this one thing. And it worked, I overcame my eating disorder, and I would say that I today have a better relationship with food than the vast majority of people. Besides healing I focused on my academics, politics and helping other, just like you describe.
And while it definitively helped me to pause the "sexuality-doubts"-train for a while, I know that stopping those feelings forever wouldn't be the right thing for me. I just know that I need to come to terms with this side of me to live my life to the fullest. But that might not apply to everyone. When I picked everything back up, I had become older and less emotionally unstable, and therefore I was able to handle it better. And of course you know yourself a lot better than I know you, and I don't know if something similar would apply for you.
I guess what I really want to say it that if you do decide to let it go it doesn't neccesarily have to be forever. Unless that is what you want? Maybe someday it will feel right for you to pick it up again, and if you do, everything might look different.

Keep in mind that I am no professional, so do what feels right for you. Or maybe even go see a professional about it.

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Old 18th Mar 2017, 12:13 PM   #4
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Re: Could I give up and move on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownsideUp View Post
Why you should come out and tell people you are gay? You don't have to accually, it's just that when you acknowledge it, you become a different person. You are not who you once were. Now, you are changed and you can't act like you are the one you used to be.
I agree, not everyone needs to come out. I did want to do it, back when I felt like it was the only way I could truly connect with my family, and put myself out there, but I don't want to care about those things any more.
Acknowledging that part of my identity has turned me from a kid with good potential to a pile of human garbage barely able to reckon reality around him. If I had had a choice, I'd have picked a better option, and honestly, if I could, I'd reverse back before puberty (I do remember looking up how to modify my nutrition at some point to mess up my body's development in the hormone department, I didn't go through with it though, it was too unrealistic; and it's too late now).

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Originally Posted by DownsideUp View Post
I don't think you can give up on that happiness and move on because It's really exciting to like who you like. I think you have right to try to avoid it but can it really make you feel better? Or will it make you feel like some other person?
I don't know if it's the depressive thoughts altering my views but attraction has become poorer and poorer for me. Maybe ignoring it exists is the best, as it seems to gradually fade.
Plus, I don't think giving up on something A° hypothetical and B° hard to reach, for instead getting well with an easier solution that works (and it does work for now) is in any way bad. I do feel better, and if my analytical mind is telling me that has to do with thinking less and less about me being gay, then, I trust it. It doesn't make me feel like another person either, it makes me feel like the person who I want to be, a mix of the good parts of old-sane me and the good parts of new-quirky me, without the dark worrying part.
My only concern really relies on my method of medication but, answering your questions, I'm starting to believe it will actually work. I don't think I'll push it to denial, where I'd not admit it if someone brings up the topic and asks me. So it seems rather healthy, and yet it goes against anything I'd advise to anyone else, which is my second concern. Your answer, though, helped me clarify my position on the first issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyelashes View Post
The situation you describe vaguely reminds me of a situation I was in a few years ago. Along with going through my initial phase of doubt about my sexuality, I was also batteling an eating disorder. In order to have the peace and quiet required to heal, I stopped thinking about my sexuality for a while in order to be fully commited to this one thing. And it worked, I overcame my eating disorder, and I would say that I today have a better relationship with food than the vast majority of people. Besides healing I focused on my academics, politics and helping other, just like you describe.
And while it definitively helped me to pause the "sexuality-doubts"-train for a while, I know that stopping those feelings forever wouldn't be the right thing for me. I just know that I need to come to terms with this side of me to live my life to the fullest. But that might not apply to everyone. When I picked everything back up, I had become older and less emotionally unstable, and therefore I was able to handle it better. And of course you know yourself a lot better than I know you, and I don't know if something similar would apply for you.
I guess what I really want to say it that if you do decide to let it go it doesn't neccesarily have to be forever. Unless that is what you want? Maybe someday it will feel right for you to pick it up again, and if you do, everything might look different.
I'm sorry for what happened to you, but glad at the same time that you made it out well.
I'd say you are mostly right, except, in my case, I've understood my sexuality, and I accept I cannot change it. I'm not shy about it (online), and I enjoyed some aspects of it in the past, though not in a while now. But with it also came all of the problems, and those are what worsened my isolation, created a long period of depression, brought me to self harm in the past, etc. All of that was, at most, two years ago. Now I still need to deal with some of the fallout (self harm urges, occasional suicidal thoughts, maybe dissociation), but I'm getting better, and that coincides with me progressively ignoring anything I tied to my findings as a young teenager : if I block my thoughts for guys, if I don't think about finding a boyfriend, if I stop worrying about coming out, about being persecuted, it works. I won't ignore other people's troubles, but mine, not stemming from outside influence, is ignorable. It's not worth paying attention to. Maybe it's some kind of sick unconscious fabrication of my mind, which wanted attention from me, or some other people.
I know it sounds like erasing parts of me, which, it does, it is, in a way. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, but it works with me. I think you're right, I should go on. It doesn't hurt me so far.

Another point is that contrary to you I don't set aside figuring out a part of me to focus on curing the other issues : I'm curing those issues by setting aside the acknowledgement of that part of who I am, of what brought those issues to life. So, I don't know how long it will last, but if I don't think about it, maybe I won't regret never finding someone or never living bidirectional romance. After all, plenty of LGB (and T as well) adults are just as miserable when it comes to those things, but wouldn't have been better off as cisgender heterosexual, because that's not possible, and that's rejecting a part of their identity. And most of them have accepted themselves. That doesn't mean happiness, it's still a game of chance. I, on the other hand, seem to benefit the ignoring of the needs those pieces of my identity create, as well as the darkness they brought with them. I'm still here if someone ever makes a move towards me, although for their own sake I'd refuse a relationship, even if I liked them. You can't be damaged if you never play. That way I'll win, being a passive participant in that area of the game of life. And I won't regret giving up on love, honesty, pride, and, heck, even sex. If it means I won't need therapy I'm up for it. I have maths, why should I care?
After all, it can't hurt you if you don't care about it.

Both your comments seem to indicate me that maybe I'm overthinking it. I think what I'm doing is indeed right, and despite me never wanting to recommend it to others, maybe it's what fits me. I still have a doubt about that though.. but maybe sometimes you do things you wouldn't recommend other people doing, and that's okay.

Thanks to you all, it seems clearer now.
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 12:12 PM   #5
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Re: Could I give up and move on?

Hello, FluffyLightFox! ( : I've been lurking around this site for a few months now, but have been inspired to create an account to respond to this post. It’s certainly one of the most interesting ones I've seen here, and there are some good points I think are worth talking through. I'm not sure if I will have any more insight to provide on the matter than has already been provided, but nonetheless I think it still merits a response. I'll try to work my way through everything systematically for clarity’s sake, but forgive me if the formatting becomes a bit jumbled. This is my first post after all, and while I expect the syntax to be fairly intuitive, I might have misinterpreted some of the commands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyLightFox View Post

I'm alternating between near "mania" (suddenly hypercreative, lots of energy, lots of will power to do things; not manic though, I don't seem to fit the symptoms for manic episodes according to the DSM-V & co.) and what really, really looks like depression, but I'm trying to stay out of it (because A) those high episodes feel nice, B) I know when the episode of "mania" fades away I've got a few weeks before I break down).
I’m not a psychologist, nor have I made much of an effort to research the same mental conditions that I may very well have, but I did find it at least somewhat encouraging that your “near-manic” high episodes are not so extreme as to be disruptive or concerning, from your perspective. You seem to have an understanding of what it is you are experiencing, to the extent that you’ve checked the DSM-V & co and have a general sense of the timeline of your cycles. When you say you are “trying to stay out of it” here, is that in reference to the approach you laid out later in your post about not investing so much time and brain power into thinking about those issues? I guess what I’m really wondering is how consistently the cycle plays out for you, if you have managed to break out of it in the past, and if in some way you have found not thinking about the depressive phase delays or even prevents its arrival.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyLightFox View Post

Question 1 :
Why should I do it? And I don't mean why should people try to work on their physical and mental health and try to accept themselves and assert their identity as much as they want, I advise everyone else to do that, but why should I do it too? I hate feeling like a hypocrite, but, I'm not everyone else.
Going along with my earlier train of thought, while you do seem to benefit from the high episodes, the regularity and undesirability of the depressive phase, from what you’ve said, does seem to be a noticeable hindrance to your life. I’m not entirely comfortable saying you should just accept the quasi-manic episodes, but for the sake of not sounding hypocritical (see Spoiler #1) I will say that they do not seem to be something you need to focus on for the time being. Are there perhaps unforeseen consequences of being in that state? Quite possibly. But to address your first question, I think it would be more prudent to look at the depression side of it. If we take what I observed earlier about your being fairly self-aware when it comes to your particular mental state, I think it’s interesting that you can both acknowledge the depressive phase and not consider it justification enough to “work on [your] physical and mental health.” The next portion has more of an emphasis on the role being gay plays in all of that, so I’ll hold off on addressing the part about accepting your identity until then.

Mostly irrelevant context: Spoiler #1

Spoiler


Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyLightFox View Post

For the past two weeks approximately I've been feeling good, why? School started again, I could get my mind off things and hyper-focus on reduction/oxidation equations and point products. I have people around me who will come to me for questions about school and I'll gladly help them solve their equations. I love when my brain is in focus, when there's nothing else than work, problems, exercises. I'm also back into coding a bit more, and drawing as well.
I think that’s a great mindset to be in! The obvious enjoyment you take out of the school work you do, helping others, and even getting back into some hobbies of yours is really amazing to behold.

Completely irrelevant side note: Spoiler #2

Spoiler


Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyLightFox View Post

And for a week or so I never worried about when I should come out, my long term loneliness or psychological "incidents". I haven't worried about completing my next "cycle", leaving the high phase and entering the depressive phase which outcome I know will be horrifying. For a week I didn't look at guys, I didn't feel awkward in the changing room during gym class, I didn't have the usual "oh sh!t, I'm gay" mind freeze that happens from time to time, and I've even started feeling like things around me were real again (another issue, very long to explain). I crammed every issue that came up at the same time I figured out my sexuality, everything that I tied to it (because yes, for more than two years I've been convinced none of that would have happened had I been straight or ignorant), into a box and left it there, and it worked.
There were a number of things that caught my attention from this paragraph. In the beginning you talk about not worrying about all of those things that have been bothering you: completing the cycle, acknowledging your sexuality, and long term loneliness. To an extent, I think there’s definitely an importance to not worrying, at least not gratuitously. If it is the thinking, often excessively, about those things and not the things themselves that is keeping you from being in whatever state you hope to attain, then by all means, don’t think too much about them. However, some of the conditions you highlighted don’t seem to be ones that simply vanish if you stop thinking about them. I suppose I’m trying to see how you distinguish between anxiety-provoking/depression-inducing/futile thoughts about the thing (whatever it may be in the context) and thoughts evoked by the thing itself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyLightFox View Post
And yes, I'm saying it, being gay freaking destroyed my life and caused every single bit of trouble I've hard in the last three years, and I know I can't get rid of it (sadly?), but I know I can stop acknowledging it.
This. This stopped me in my tracks the first time I read it, and is perhaps one of the most striking aspects of your original post. I’m not going to lie and say I haven’t felt that way before. I have…all the time. So many things in my life seem like they would have been easier if I were straight. One of my best friends is a girl who I could spend hours with just talking, listening to music, doing anything really. I care more about her than almost anyone and would do anything for her. At one point she expressed her interest in me, to which I told her first how amazing I think she was and how much I value our relationship, and then that I’m gay. In some parallel universe, we would have been completely inseparable, and I would have been emotionally content on that front. It would have been both of our first relationships, but we would have experienced it together. That is not my reality. Being gay has definitely played a role in crippling my self-esteem, and, mental illness aside, has definitely led to emotional and mental turmoil on its own (story for another time, perhaps). It is yet another thing that will forever lie between me and my parents, and my inability to tell them, their inability to understand if I did, is only exacerbating our fragmented connection. I’d accepted I was gay sometime early last year when all of the little moments I’d been having (in locker rooms, watching TV, etc.) coalesced and took the form of one boy in particular. I can definitively say that life was simpler and easier before then, but I’m not sure correlation necessarily implies causation in this case. I wasn’t ruled by depression and anxiety, nor was I entirely incapacitated by my abysmal self-esteem. I was still coding, writing poetry, getting good grades, feeling completely isolated from my friends and family, but what I can confidently say is that I wasn’t altogether living in and experiencing each moment. While I do have memory issues that should probably be concerning, I also know that there wasn’t much worth remembering from that time, so to speak. Were there moments I enjoyed? Certainly, and they probably occurred in a much higher frequency than they do now. However, all of the suffering, all of the mental anguish, it may not have made me a better person than I was, and not at all more “productive” or “successful however you’d define that, but it did make it all feel real. Even if all I do with this understanding is sit back and observe the apparent unreality of the way others live, it feels self-justifying to have experienced all of it. Okay, it’s official, I’m a (self-deprecating) delusional masochist. XD

What was supposed to be the takeaway from all of that before I devolved a bit is that I do not think one can conclusively assign all of the blame to being gay. Who we are is so much more than the little categorizations we use to describe ourselves, and it seems to me like trying to reduce your identity, if that makes sense. Okay, moving right along…

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyLightFox View Post

Final question :
So if I've found a way to deal with it, and even if it won't work all the time, why should I find the courage to come out? Why should I go see a therapist? Why should I work on my language problems? Why should I want to try to put myself out there to date? Why should I want a relationship? Or an honest connection with my parents? Or confronting my issues when it's clear that if I stop ruminating about them I see things things brighter instead of a foggy reality tainted by depressive thoughts?
Why can't I just be the quirky furry memelord who codes and draws and studies well? Why do I also have to be the gay teenager who's dealing with gods-know-what in his mind, who has made zero progress towards coming out and when he does eventually slides back to square one, who has self harm scars all over his arm, all of that jazz because he couldn't accept the fact that he's gay, back when he didn't know English, and all the hardships that will come with that?
Why couldn't I stop acknowledging the issues I'm sure I partly, unintentionally, created myself are there and simply focus on the rest?
Why should I continue pointing out to myself that I'm different, in a bad way, from everyone else? Couldn't I just scrap out every bad bit and convince myself there's no issue, and then live a life, not of lies (I ain't saying I wanna fool people into thinking I'm straight), but of distraction, supporting others, school work, programming projects and drawing?

Couldn't I just accept that I've given up on finding that kind of happiness, and move on? I know it will most likely not work for many people, and I wouldn't recommend it to them, but it seems to work to me. Is that reasoning faulty?
Oh my, this is turning absurdly long, and I truly must apologize, but there’s just so much to look at and I want to give your post the attention it deserves.

I really don’t want all of those issues to bog you down and keep you from doing what you find meaningful, be it coding, drawing, helping others, being a quirky furry memelord, or anything else. If you find ultimately that your form of medication allows you to do that, to live the life you want to live, then I cannot tell you not to pursue that approach. I would, however, say that the two need not necessarily be mutually exclusive. You can think of all the other stuff associated with your being gay as complementary to the rest of you, the parts of you that you take most pride in and value most. It is, I’d say, as much of who you are as anything else, and, I find, an intriguing component of your identity. I don’t know if you can find some way to fully coexist with yourself, or if you’d even want to do that, or find it fulfilling in any way. I can only say that there will be people, like me, who’d want to know you for the code-writing drawing-drawing (lol there’s no good way to make than an adjective) quirky furry memelord as well as the struggling, self-harm-scarred, emotionally-cycling closeted gay who is also a human being.

Okay, I think that’s enough, probably too much, for anyone to wade through. My 8th grade English teacher always said I need to learn to exercise the “art of concision.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyLightFox View Post

On that note, have a good day.
Likewise, FluffyLightFox. ( :

EDIT: It just occurred to me to do a word count of all of this. Overall, it’s at 2,380, with my words making up around 2,000 of it. Haha!

Last edited by FugaciousFellow; 20th Mar 2017 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 05:31 PM   #6
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Re: Could I give up and move on?

Yeah, really high word count on this thread. I liked your original post. I was reluctant to say this... because it might go to your head. lol. But I really do mean it. I do think you are a special person but... too special to be gay? Okay let's just drop that and get to the real point. Why is all of this crap happening to you? Well, because you are a fucking human. And I don't mean a human who fucks, I mean a fucking human. Like it or not, you have been programmed to be a human. Yes, yes, yes, there is much more to you than that, I do believe that is true, but like it or not, you are human with human needs and emotions and you MUST follow your program or end up being a really unhappy human, which is not a good state for you. Because you are human. Here is a hint for you – learn all you can about the life of Thomas Jefferson. I know, totally weird thing to say, but trust me, he is your savior. Learn all you can about his life. And follow his advice. He was in your place, minus the gay part probably... maybe... IDK, well anyway, he solved your problem and he wrote about it. So if you follow his advice you will fix your problem. And become that thing that is above being human... the seventh chakar... who knows... maybe... anyway, that's what I advise. Look into Thomas Jefferson.

Last edited by Monraffe; 20th Mar 2017 at 05:34 PM..
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Old 21st Mar 2017, 02:23 PM   #7
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Re: Could I give up and move on?

OK, I'll try to cut down my speech and nest it into spoilers because this thread is getting insanely long.

In response to Monraffe :
Spoiler


And the big answer to FugaciousFellow :
Spoiler


So in update : trying to not think about something while remembering not to think about it has proven to be harder than I thought, so now every time I think about guys I proposed I pinch myself. Sounds fair. Otherwise things are going normal, and mostly like I planned (i.e. my state is worsening a bit because I'm remembering).

Good day to everyone, and especially those who wasted their time reading this whole post. You deserve.. my gratitude? Probably, but it's from me, worth nothing, not even a can of coke.
Anyway.. Good day to y'all.
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