I feel ridiculous for writing this since I have no idea how I can explain what's bothering me.. There's this guy.. He's only 21 I think, so a lot younger than me. I don't have a crush on him or anything; at least I don't think so; I don't know; I still don't know how to tell. I see him twice a week in an evening school. I like him. He's funny, inspiringly open and honest, very bright. He's very sweet, very cute. Cute as in "I wanna hug you" cute. As in "if I had a younger brother, I'd like him to be like you" cute. I'm completely lost when it comes to him.. I have no idea what my feelings really are. I ask myself questions to try to analyze it; I wouldn't want to have sex with him, I wouldn't even want to kiss him. I'd love to hug him, he's just adorable. So what the hell am I feeling? Gah... that whole paragraph reads bad. I knew I wouldn't be able to explain. After each lesson I feel horrible. That's what's bothering me. I hate it that I have to leave him. I hate it that he apparently leaves me easily. But what do I want here? Is it some weird big brotherly feeling? Is it a sick need for him to little-brotherly respect me? I mean, he does.. it seems. And then today we were talking about sexual experiences and general views on promiscuity and similar (I'm not out to him btw). He's straight, one of those Kinsey 1s. He's in a long-term relationship, he had a healthy sex life even before. So it's all fun, we laugh it up, speak openly (well, not me, but who could tell) and everything is ok. But, even as we speak, a sadness starts creeping into me. By about half the lesson I started feeling energy draining away from me, sadness taking over and I basically switched off for the remainder of the lesson (even the professor took notice and posed fewer questions to me). When it was over, I was on my way home and by that time already in a completely gloomy, lethargic, depression-like state. And this is not a one-time thing! It's more of a rule than exception! How can I be so pathetic? Have I really sunk so low as to want to impress a 21 year old? To get depressed over my lesser sexual experience? Or the fact that he has any? What the hell is wrong with me? .. I'm reading what I just wrote and I can't believe it. This is just sickening. What's wrong with me? (mhm, the answer is not "nothing"..) I hate myself at this moment. What a stupid, lost, irrational person I am. Gah.. Well... I realize I haven't asked a question. I don't know what I should ask.. I guess.. does anyone understand what I'm talking about? Cause I don't. I'm lost, have no idea what this is about and in the meantime, it's killing me. Mh.. a pointless rant.
Sounds to me just like what you said. Its a little brother/big brother thing. Do you have siblings? Ive got an older sister but always wanted a little brother, so Ive had those feelings before for other people, especially growing up.
I have had these feelings before too, Dalmatian. I always thought that it was because I was an only child and very reserved. I always want to be friends with people, even if its in a brotherly way, but I am so shy I feel like I fail at it. Maybe you feel a little jealous of this guy too, because he has all these stories about stuff but you were feeling a little low, especially since you aren't completely out of the closet yet but he felt so free to share about his relationship/sex life with you? I think that's totally understandable. I know you think that there is something wrong with you, but I don't think there is.
I think it's fairly similar to the feeling that eventually drove me to come out. Friendships are, on the main, about being able to relax and being open, and being (I dislike the word, but it fits here: ) authentic. About knowing that whatever you say, you won't be judged for it. Being in the closet, however, never ceases rubbing your nose into the fact that what you're doing is not any of the above. That you are biting your tongue at moments where you really should just be allowed to not care. It's easy enough when you're in the closet to yourself, but once you're out to yourself, the disconnect between what you know and what you say starts grating more and more. Why do you have it with this guy more than with others? Well, friendship is a bit weird like love is. You can't always say why you feel drawn to some friends more than others. Some of my friends I like, and others I REALLY like. There's ones where I'll say "oh, they'll be OK", and one or two where I'll occasionally worry whether they're OK. So it's probably the same with this guy. Actually, for me it improved a lot after I was out. Even if the conversation would turn to, say, sexual experience, I was still as inexperienced after coming out as I was before, but being able to just be open about it, and expressing my real opinions, was fairly liberating. Might not be possible with this guy in this setting (I'm definitely not totally open to everyone myself), but it helps to have at least a coupel of friends you know you can be open to.
Not a pointless rant at all Dalmatian, it's that neo-adolescence thing we spoke of earlier...Filip has a point regarding being closeted, it really does play havoc with our relationships!
Thanks, guys. Yes, I'm an only child. I don't know if that should make a difference though (in this case). Oh, that's so true. Every time I have to twist around an awkward question, every time I have to think about what I can say, find a gender-neutral pronoun, make seamless little annoying tweaks in what my answer could imply.. it tires me. And it's unrelenting, save for literally one friend now, everything else is an unending struggle. I thought about coming out to him. I have no idea what that would result in. I don't know what he thinks about homosexuality. I do think I would find it easier to talk to him and to endure his presence if he knew. But it all sounds so stupid. Why would I care? He's a guy. Some guy I barely know. Should I come out to every person in the world before I can start feeling comfortable? .. mh.. ffs. Talk about answering your own questions. I love this. This is so very much true. Ohh.. I have this gut feeling you might be on to the truth. But I simply fail in pinpointing this thing that's killing me :bang: Neo-adolescence.. So I can expect this kind of peer pressure feelings in the future? I must say, I have huge new-found respect for teenagers. Could it be that? ... Gah, why am I so lost?! I can usually define what I feel pretty well. I'm not used to not being able to even describe it! So.. if I was feeling big-brotherly, that would explain some things. But then there comes a "problem" of the little brother being so far ahead of the big one. And that causes major pain. But I'm not jealous or anything.. I just suddenly sink into depression around him. The disconnect between internal outness and external closetness is definitely there and it hurts me continually, so much so that it's becoming uncontrollable. That's absolutely true.. It seems I won't be able to remain in the closet much longer. But the alternative is scary (because of the unknown). And neo-adolescence.. That rings so true. When I was a teenager, I couldn't care less what popular kids did, what they thought of me or anything else. So now that all of these feelings are surfacing.. maybe.. So, it's a perfect storm? That results in this state I'm in? A great deal of solution seems to be coming out. Should I come out to him? He definitely doesn't comply with the levels of reliability that I found in people I came out to so far. Then again, I might be mistaken.. But still, to be in this state because of his existence? Because he was talking about having sex as as normal as air to breathe? I'm under such a devastating effect of his persona.. that's so ridiculous. Crazy. My thoughts are such a mess. I can't even write a single paragraph and be satisfied with how I managed to get my thoughts across. And I hate it because usually I do manage. A 21 year old.. he makes me feel incredibly good and bad at the same time. That mixture is killing me. Thanks for your help, people. I really appreciate it.
Dude, It sounds a lot like me, especially from about 15 plus years ago. I remember two scenarios, where guys that could have been younger bros to me, I would have this feeling of wanting to be with them. I mean in a way that I wanted to spend time, hang out, and I remember the one guy -when I was very very socially immature and didn't have any experience with guys - I was very almost jealous of his gf. This guy was str8 and I don't think had any leanings to being gay, and I don't think he suspected anything about me. When one is in the closet and questioning etc etc, I think there can be a whole range of emotions. I know you can't "turn" a str8 guy gay, and I don't try (although maybe I have been hopeful at times). The feeling though that you describe, I think I get it. But see with me, there's times I think of gay intimacy, and it grossses me out. (it's not an automatic that I am really into it; my emotions, feelings are all over the map). There's some guys I will see for example, they can be cute in their own way, but then somehow the thought will come to mind about them and intimacy (kinda the way someone might fantasize about someone famous - that is, theres not anywhere close to anything likely happening) and it will make me ill.. The guy seems "dirty" or just it repulses me.. It's hard to explain. hope some of what I said helps.
greatwhale and Dalmatian -- would you be able to describe the neo-adolescence thing you are talking about? I am unfamiliar with that theory. Sometimes when I feel really infatuated with someone like that, I have to question whether I want to actually be them. Which I am sure still goes along with the closeted thing everyone has mentioned. I wouldn't beat yourself up about the fact that this guy is 21. I bet if he was 31 the same thing could happen if all other circumstances were in place, with the exception of the feeling that I have felt that I have missed out on a lot of my youth by being depressed, anxious, and in the closet, whereas some people have always felt comfortable being who they are, especially if they are straight.
@ACanadian82 Yes, wanting to spend time with, definitely.. there's another guy who's been joining us lately; although I understand how irrational those feelings are, I really dislike that guy butting in. Which I shouldn't be. And about demoing intimacy through imagination.. yes, I tried that; it's almost the only tool I have to probe the sources of my attraction. I definitely have that ill feeling about it. There are guys who I like and who I would like to be intimate with, for myself; guys I could be on an equal footing with. And then there are guys with whom I would never want to be with for any reason but maybe to bring them enjoyment; sometimes that seems as the only possibility of a connection. However, that's obviously a false conclusion. I would never do that. He's in that second group. ---------- Post added 30th Mar 2013 at 01:32 AM ---------- Simply put, coming out brings such a flood of newly experienced and newly found emotions, feelings that were never before let to surface, that their intensity seems similar to what teenagers experience when crossing to that "natural" age of discovering their sexuality. The symptoms can be almost puberty-like. I don't know if "theory" is the right word for it, though It was something greatwhale mentioned in another thread. ---------- Post added 30th Mar 2013 at 01:37 AM ---------- In regards to the rest of your post.. I don't know, I can't be sure about his age not playing a role. I don't think I would be so drawn if he were older; certainly it would be less of a.. shock, I guess.. to get to know about the range of his experience; or better said, that he had any. Which I know is stupid to think that at 21 he didn't, but then, none of this is very smart. I don't want to be him, no. But I do have that feeling of having wasted my youth, losing it to denial and depression.
Okay, thanks, that makes sense. I agree with that. Same thing with transitioning when one is transgender, or anytime when you are finally able to be yourself after a long time of being denied that, whether by yourself or others. ---------- Post added 29th Mar 2013 at 05:45 PM ---------- That might just be my trans guy-ness coming through haha. Don't feel alone about feeling like you have wasted some of your life. I feel like that every day.
OP, you said ....." I do have that feeling of having wasted my youth, losing it to denial and depression" Well don't feel that you are alone on that. As a "child of the 1970's" and from what I can tell about 10 years older than you, I feel I lost out on possibly some things in my teens and 20's. I only first got with a guy in my late 20's early 30's (about 10 years at least later than most guys it seems). That said, I've not developed the jaded attitude either that many gay men have. HArd to describe it, but I'm sure many have seen it. I'm also glad (glass half full rather than half empty here, and believe me I'm often "glass half empty") that I didn't put myself into an abusive relationship or become a male slut (which many guys who are gay or bi ) can run into. I'm sure it happens in the str8 world too, but the facts are the facts. Overall point being, well I may have been late getting to the party, it's what you do once you get there.
Well, yes, the facts are facts. The fact here is that I have lost ten, possibly fifteen and maybe even twenty years of my life on denial. Consequently, those years were filled with depression, even when I didn't know what it was that was causing it. I don't feel alone. In this issue, I know many people understand me and share my feelings (&&&) But that's past. If I've lost a decade on denial, I don't want to lose another one on being sorry for myself. That's why I'm trying to understand these things. My reactions to this guy are clearly sexuality related. But I don't understand the details. I just know that I feel wounded and lonely and depressed and a whole bunch of other stuff. I was happy about seeing him and having an opportunity to talk to him. Jump two hours ahead and I'm this shadow of myself, dragging feet towards the bed, finally not being able to achieve even that and falling asleep on the couch. I feel so powerless.
I really think us slightly older than college age guys admire the younger guys so much because we wish so much we could go back to that age with the acceptance we have of ourselves. Boy, how we would have done things differently. But, the past is the past. You only have today and hopefully the future.
I think this is very true. Im fairly certain this is why I am/have been attracted to younger guys. As I get older, this are changing slowly. The year gap has been closing, but everything you said makes complete sense. My ex was 8 years younger and my current BF is 5 years younger. I think a lot of it has to do with the innocence and lack of responsibility. Just an observation.
Well, I'm not going to repeat the other posts (though I agree with a lot of what has been said), but I will say that there are degrees of being open. So, you can go from "I'll sit quiet here in a corner and hope no one ever asks me about sex" To: 'I'll give evasive untruths when asked about sex" To: "I'll be honest about never having had sex, even if I leave the genders ambiguous" To: "Yeah, I'm a virgin, but probably the gayness contributed to that" The final one is, I think, the healtiest one, but I spent a lot of time on the second-to-last one, and found it helped immeasurable. Call it "Virgin pride". Not in the stuck-up way of "I'm purer than you". But just in a "hey, this is how it went down for me, and I'm not going to make apologies for how I lived my life" And you know what? On the times it came up (not THAT often. I didn't expand on sexual history when going to the bakery down the street ), I was always impressed by how people really didn't think it was a big deal. Outside of their expectations, and sometimes they didn't fully get it, but I never had a bad or derisive reaction, as long as I treated it as no big deal. So in the end, it made me more comfortable with previous (lack of) experiences. It made it that more easy to just say "meh. Seems that while they were dating, I did other things, and now that they're doing other things, I'll try dating. Same thing, different order of execution!" While I used sex as an example above, it doesn't necessarily apply to sex only, by the way. In most things, there really is a continuum from treating things as a shameful secret, to being totally open, and even if being totally open isn't an option, it's still better to be as close to it as possible.
I can definitely agree with Dakine. My life would be very different if I had today's insights back when I was fifteen, or twenty or even twenty five. Of course, that goes for any aspect of life, but in regards to sexuality especially, since it influenced so much. I know the past is past. I'm angry at myself for being stupid enough not to recognize and acknowledge my feelings, but that doesn't mean I lose my present thinking of my past. I do so only as much as I need to understand myself.. I guess that part is needed for a meaningful future to be an option. Now, as for the attraction towards younger guys.. I definitely am attracted to them. However, I can't say that I would want a relationship with someone much younger. Even a 21 year old can make my hormones flow, but when I imagine a full blown relationship.. no, that doesn't seem very possible. Kids tend to be too childish. It's sweet, but I want a relationship where my partner can be the one to take care of things from time to time, be it dinner plans, job advice or sex. The guy I was the most attracted to in my life is of my age. A few others at the top of the list as well. Although I turn my head more often towards younger guys, it's still those as mature as I am that seem to offer the full package. Although.. the truth is that these "younger guys" do tend to be closer and closer to my age. The closing of the age gap seems to be a thing I'm experiencing as well. When it comes to this guy, I'm now at number two. I don't think I would call it "giving untruth", though, although I guess I allowed an implied untruth to be assumed. So, ok, maybe I really have been giving untruths. Well, ok.. accept myself for what I am. I'm trying to do that. Actually, I think I'm succeeding quite well in that regard. The thing about the lack of experience doesn't bother me directly. I don't mind, at this moment, that my experience is so slight. I'd like to have a boyfriend and start changing that, but that's a wish for starting something nice, not for stopping something bad. In the meantime, he is well experienced and now, while I don't mind that he has a girlfriend (in the sense of being jealous of her or anything) or that he is straight, it's just that it's bothering me so much that there is such a huge difference between how lightheartedly he thinks and speaks of sexuality and how I feel about it. What's more, it's not as simple as feeling that it bothers me. That would be easier and then this thread would be dealing with other problems from the start (and I would probably not think about which forum it goes to, cause it would go to Later in life). Well, the crazy thing is that I only know I am bothered by this because every time we speak I feel a pang of pain afterwards and I get drained of energy, I almost fall into depression (what's it called when you feel as in depression, but it's temporary and relatively short lived?). It feels like such a detachment from one's own emotions. I know it wasn't just about sex. Sex is less important anyway. I am a relationship virgin; when it comes to sex, I'd have to think about what to say of myself.. my sexual experience is exactly such that I'm not killing myself over thinking about virginity. At least that helps (which, btw, is completely crazy: how one encounter can change the image a person has of himself). Being a relationship virgin, though, is what makes me feel I'm missing out. I need that hug. I do believe things will change once I can be completely open. I can't wait for that. I just wish to shout to everyone that I am gay and that's it. I hate the closet. Time, time.. I agree, btw, that people react well, to being gay, to being inexperienced, to fancying whoever. That's nice. Thank you so much, everyone. You are throwing some great, insightful ideas at me. You are helping so much, thank you all (*hug*)
Don't cut the younger guys short. Although there would be definite signs of different maturity levels, its not like they'd be 12 years old and still need help tying their shoes lol. I'm sure they could still offer quite a bit to a healthy relationship.
This is exactly how I feel about many of the autistic kids I work with. It's like I want to be a mix of big sister, best friend and parent to them, and I feel down because I'm none of those, just a volunteer working with them once a week. Most of them are worse off than I am (I don't mean in terms of autism severity - I've felt this way for kids anywhere on the spectrum - but in terms of self-acceptance and happiness), so I haven't felt any jealousy. Instead, I've felt this urge to jump in and make everything better, and sadness that I can't wave a magic wand and fix their lives. I can't make their parents see that being normal isn't so great and being autistic isn't so bad. I can't necessarily convince them of that either. I can't undo any of the hurt in their past, or make sure their futures will be better... all I can do is be there for them in the present, for the short time I have with them. It's this feeling that really makes me think I need to be a parent someday.
lol No, I'm not writing younger guys off. It would be great if I could find a guy who is both young and attractive in that way and who was mature enough to not be annoying after some time.. It' just that, judging by experience so far, I'm more likely to be happy with someone my age. Not that I'd know though. Huh, ok.. I wouldn't compare young guys to autistic ones But I guess there are common issues. It is a matter of being able to take care of someone that produces a special kind of connection. That's why I find them less adept for a relationship. Equality..
Well, I'm autistic, so that's why I usually only react that way to autistic kids. (Although one girl I identified with is a sibling of an autistic kid but probably not on the spectrum herself. What she had in common with me was being assertive in a way that tends to really bug adults, while really not wanting to pick fights with them.)
