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Homosexuals shaming the bisexual/pans etc.

Discussion in 'General Support and Advice' started by YellowBird, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. YellowBird

    YellowBird Guest

    This community is extremely supportive of all sexual identities and orientations etc. BUT there exists a very real problem that I see quite a bit of, where I'm from and across the board really, and that is the shaming and hate against bisexuals and pans people(not even just those groups either, I've even seen it against trans* people) from members of their very own LGBTQ communities!

    I have experienced extreme shame towards myself for being told that I was less of a person because of my sexual preferences by a lesbian friend of mine. I started to look deeper into this mindset and found that it is pretty rampant, which made me feel even worse. I thought that I would be accepted amongst the very same people that had experienced similar discriminations, only to find out that I was a stain to some of these "pure" homosexuals. I was not to be trusted, I wasn't decent, and I should die. (yes, I even heard that one) I felt pressure to lie about who I was attracted to and this shame that I felt grew into an insurmountable amount of self-inflicted emotional abuse.

    I want to raise awareness of this internal discrimination and I would like ideas on how to erase this stigma surrounding the "black sheep". If anyone has any input I would love to hear it. I don't think it will ever be right to make someone to feel so adversely towards themselves. It needs to end.
     
  2. Pret Allez

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    I'm not sure that "extremely supportive" is how I would describe the Empty Closets community. What I see is a lot of people in serious need of remedial social justice education. For a fun exercise, just go to some multisexual or trans* members and ask them how they feel like they're treated here.

    It's a huge deal in some parts of the lesbian scene, unfortunately. I think it's becoming less of an issue for younger lesbians than those who grew up in the 1970s. The feminism of that era, I hate to say it, was more of an oil spill to be cleaned up than a contribution to social justice philosophy. (Fortunately, we are cleaning up that oil spill: it's called third wave feminism.) Part of that feminism included extremely toxic views about sex (see Andrea Dworkin and Catherine MacKinnon, whose views on the matter are completely and utter trash) and gender (see all of trans-exclusive radical feminism).

    With those evil, ill-considered ideas came notions of political lesbianism, that is, the notion that being exclusively attracted to women constitutes feminist praxis. This constructed bisexual or pansexual women as "sleeping with the enemy" or as women not having a complete "queer sensibility."
     
    #2 Pret Allez, Jun 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  3. Ettina

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    I have noticed that sort of thing too, and it makes me mad. If being gay is OK, there is no good reason to disapprove of multisexuals either. And I hate when someone who's experienced discrimination and says it's wrong then turns around and discriminates against another group.
     
  4. Argentwing

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    It's not always malice; sometimes people are genuinely ignorant. Heh, I know I've said some stupid stuff, but was grateful for patient, informative responses that let me know exactly where I went wrong and how far off I was.

    The prevailing opinion of bisexuality where I am is that we are sex-crazed people who "double their chances of a date on Friday night." While that second part is kinda-sorta true (not quite doubling when you account how few gay/bi guys there are in relation to both bi and straight girls) it does imply a looseness that is a complete fabrication. I'm probably the most chaste guy I know. I had a girlfriend for about 2 years, never even saw her topless and didn't even push the issue. Been with my current gf for over 3 and sex was as much her idea as mine.

    Of course, I'm preaching to the choir here, but I can see how the issue crops up. Bi/pansexuality is such a foreign concept to 100% monosexual people that they can only invent fictitious scenarios where it would "make sense" so to speak instead of existing on its own.
     
    #4 Argentwing, Jun 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  5. photoguy93

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    In regards to what Pret has said.... I think that if you look hard enough, even "pure" homosexuals are discriminated against in one way or another - looks? Actions? Weight?

    I am gay - so as someone who is not bi/pan/etc, I don't know exactly what you are talking about.
    However, I think part of the problem could be ignorance. Frankly, a lot of us have issues thinking outside the box. I'm sure I've said some things before that I didn't think were offensive that probably came across as such to someone of your orientation.

    Also, as I have said before, our nation can only think of about 2.7 things at once - taxes, life, and one bit of social justice, haha. Seriously, though...I really think that we don't necessarily mean harm..but there's a lot of moving pieces here in the fight for equality, and we can't handle them all at once. I never thought it was about hatred....

    Sorry for the things you're dealing with.. :frowning2:
     
  6. Pret Allez

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    Honestly, I'm just going to start cataloguing the shit people say on EC, because it's just so great. One that really set me off a while ago, was "bisexuals have straight privilege." That was from a feminist member too. Huge embarrassment...

    I'm just gonna go on my run now, because I'm just going to tear something apart if I don't...

    In sisterhood, Adrian
     
  7. photoguy93

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    Oh, good gosh..that was me I bet (I know I've said that....)

    Frankly, I don't want this to become a huge debate that hurts feelings....but sometimes, if we remain so set in our beliefs, we miss out on some good reasons for why people say the things they say.

    Anyways....
     
  8. Martjain

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    I think as bisexuals (and in general people who are discriminated upon) should take the mature stand and turn that hate that is brought upon us to love. People who say that kinda things to us most probably are ignorant or have suffered the same kind of aggression towards them, so as the most mature in that situation (I'm not saying bi pll are more mature than LGT or straight ppl, just in that discrimination case) we have to understand why the person may be attacking us, and hug them and try to reach out to them as we can and tell them, it's okay, you don't need to hate.
    I know this may feel like a priest's preach haha, but I'm trying to say, take that discrimination carefully.

    Also, it's a shame that even in EC we hear those kinda comments, but that's why we are here for, to make mistakes and learn from other people :slight_smile:
     
  9. YellowBird

    YellowBird Guest

    I had only seen so much of EC, I'm a new member and just days into my joining. I'm surprised that this mindset prevails even here. Maybe I didn't say it clearly before but I know discrimination by other LGBTQ members doesn't just affect Bi/ Pans people.

    I also agree that a part of the problem is ignorance, but there almost needs to be a rally cry of outrage to this situation. If we are not safe or if we do not feel safe, even amongst our own kind, where do we go?

    How can we begin to fix it?
     
  10. photoguy93

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    I think that's a really beautiful thing to say. We all can take something from it. <3
     
  11. AAASAS

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    I think for a lot of homosexuals they would love to maybe have the option to date the opposite sex and be considered normal. That isn't all homosexuals, but a lot do, which kind of I guess creates the lack of sympathy for bisexuals, and lack of understanding.

    I know it'd be hard to get people to understand you or trust you as a bisexual and that feelings are feelings, but I really do think a lot of homosexuals just cannot sympathize with anyone that has heterosexual feelings because they themselves would like it. Again I understand the plight of the bisexual and stereotypes that come along with it, and don't deny they need support, that is just one way I know is why.

    I myself used to not really understand how annoying it would be to be bisexual because some people aren't understanding of it, because I just thought why don't they quit whining and date the opposite sex, problem solved. I know it's not that easy but that is the mindset a lot of people have towards them because they can't grasp being attracted to both sexes, or don't see heterosexual attraction as a problem... and most likely don't consider that hiding your bisexuality is similar to hiding your homosexuality.
     
    #11 AAASAS, Jun 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  12. YellowBird

    YellowBird Guest

    This is really insightful. The majority of things that get said to me are from women ( I have a preference for females and trans individuals) and at times, in order to even be considered I would have to LIE about my orientation. In hiding, I found that I could not fully love the other person because they did not love all of me. I still hide, still suffer, and am still afraid that the people that I am most attracted to HATE me for no better a reason than that I could love anyone.
     
  13. Martjain

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    Well by informing that is, we gotta talk to the people to hate us cause that's the only way we'll ever get to an understanding.

    Thanks, I do believe when we are hated upon, we gotta do our human best to love in return.

    Yeah, perhaps it is that they'd like to be straight, but also that they are giving back the hate that they were faced with cause maybe they say, this guys is bisexual, he is part straight so I'm gonna hate him like the straight did to me. In a subconscious way, kinda like revenge.
     
  14. BudderMC

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    I've got two big points to say.

    The first as a moderator: if you feel like there is some sort of discrimination or offensive comments being made, report the post. The staff only have so many eyes, and I'll be honest in saying I don't typically look at threads I don't find interesting/can't contribute in, and for me personally that means I would miss out on most threads that are offensive to bisexual people. If you don't let us know about it and we don't see it, we can't do anything about it, and we want to keep this community as a little safe haven amongst the rest of the Internet. Not to mention, taking it upon yourselves to fight your point in a thread usually accomplishes absolutely nothing and destroys that safe-haven mentality I think everyone can appreciate about EC.

    The second is for the actual content. I could sit and discuss with you with my limited knowledge of social psychology and theorize about a hundred different reasons why people say the things they do and why these people hold these incorrect opinions. It seems ever-so-more shocking that these people hold these offensive opinions because they too are part of a marginalized group (being LGBT) themselves). Maybe some people are really spiteful. Maybe some people just don't get it. Regardless, these comments are being made and that's not cool with you. You can't change how they behave, but you can change how you react. I think the big options you've got would be:

    - Get offended
    - Try and educate/discuss with the person
    - Ignore them altogether

    Nobody can really tell you what the best choice in any given situation would be. I like to give the benefit of the doubt, so I'd try and talk with the other person to explain. Getting offended - to me - is just not worth the time or energy anymore, so I'd avoid that.

    Keep in mind that just because you're LGBT doesn't mean you can't be an asshole to other LGBT people; they're not mutually-exclusive traits. And regardless if that person is LGBT or not, if their values are significantly clashing with yours, they probably aren't worth keeping close by or around for a long time.
     
  15. PurpleRain

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    Yeah honestly I've noticed a lot of this kind of stuff. Especially today with the "Why the Spectacle" thread. Very much bashing on drag queens and in turn the trans* community. If you put down one of us you put down all of us, you know? I was honestly kind of shocked by some of the statements posted there. :dry:
     
  16. AAASAS

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    Exactly.
     
  17. fairlyfey

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    First, kudos to you Pret Allez for knowing about the different waves of feminism! It breaks my heart how many people, young girls in particular, know absolutely nothing about femenism nor do they seem to care.

    Second as a bi boi myself, I have noticed some posts and threads that were "unpleasent" to read to say the least. I forget the thread now, but I believe some coward described pansexuality as "glorified bisexuality" and to quit whining about it. The post was anonymous and had the sensitivity of an elephant trampling a mouse.

    I try not to take it personally, but I feel it's important to note that biphobia, panphobia, and transphobia are not perspectives of ignorance as is so often erroneously claimed. Ignorance comes from innocence and lack of knowledge; bigotry is learned behavior, it is reactionary behavior. It follows from a flawed intellectual apparatus which others people so as to marginalize them. While it is true that bigots are ignorant of their hypocrisy and the full harm of what they are doing; their bigotry is not a natural state of mind and therefore it is not excusable. They were taught to think this way.

    I want to think about this topic a little longer, I definitely have more thoughts on the subject.
     
  18. Linthras

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    I agree with the sentiments expressed above.
    Frankly in most cases it seems to be a combination of ignorance and the being bullied themselves that makes some people with in the LGBT community attack their own.
    Gay people who have struggled for years for exampel with the idea of not being straight, might, in their ignorance, see bisexual people as betrayers and having it easy.
    It's shitty, but angry responses from our side will only heat the argument instead of cool it down.
     
  19. Split Arrows

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    I just have to ask what part of being bi is easy?
     
  20. Beware Of You

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    I hate it when some members of the community are like that. There is nothing wrong with being bisexual, they are as capable of a monogamous relationship as anyone else. I would have no problem in dating a bisexual, as long as they are nice, cute, fun guys then I don't really care where on the spectrum they stand.