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Dating and Sex

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Bear101, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. Bear101

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    Ok. Got some questions and have no where to ask. So here goes.

    I'm coming out of a heterosexual marriage and hope to be dating a guy within the next 12-24 months. I'm still in the process of coming out and trying to get a grip on what I like/don't like. (But I know I'm a bottom).

    As a more traditional guy, I would like to try the dating processs. I don't know that I'm going to want sex on the first couple of dates. But it seems like in the gay world (from what I've seen and experienced) guys like to have seen before dinner, lol.

    How do I slow that process down and build a relationship first?

    Also, where do you go to find guys that are more into relationships than they are into sex (not saying I don't want sex...)?

    Any other advice you have for me?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. greatwhale

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    I think you would be surprised at how many guys want to take it slow. While true that we're guys, we don't have to live up to that mythology.

    Set clear boundaries from the get-go, but keep your ear to the ground. It's a dance, there's give and take and you need to be aware of how you both feel about sex as time passes...

    A relationship is something that develops quite naturally, the building part of it also comes naturally. Most couples, but especially gay couples (because there are so few conventional ways to relate) negotiate the rules as they go...and any pre-set ideas are soon set aside for the reality of what's going on...the trick is to be aware of what's going on...
     
  3. LD579

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    If you meet people on hookup sites or apps, it's likely they'd expect sex to be at the forefront of the relationship, at least initially. In contrast, some websites and apps are well-known for being much less sex-centric. I can't name any, but... try to use common sense when using such sites, if using them at all. Depending on what site or app you use, you could be almost asking for different types of experiences.

    With that said, you don't need to just rely on dating or hookup sites and apps. Friends of friends, or even friends of friends of friends can be a way to meet other guys who are into guys. There also may be some meet ups close to where you live that are for LGBT+ people that you might want to look into (Sports, book clubs, support groups, hang outs...)

    A good way to get good dates is to be at a good place yourself... so to speak. If you're at a place in your life where you're happy with yourself and with things in general, that will attract healthy potential relationships. It's a double win situation.
     
  4. skiff

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    I am not a bar scene guy but my friend is so I go with him. Now I move very slow and need a relationship before I can have sex.

    That said I was at a bar last night and had a conversation with this really nice guy but we were polar opposites in regards to sex. He wanted no part of a relationship purely a hook-up guy. I felt bad for him.

    We had a great conversation but each of us knew we weren't each others cup of tea sexually because of our views on relationship.

    My friend who pretends to live up to the mythology wanted to know why I didn't do something with the guy because this guy was totally into me and I explained the polar goals and my friend understood my position.

    The trick is talking. I find being out of the closet I can be open and honest now and get the same back. I NEVER could have had that conversation with a woman or a closeted gay man, but with an openly gay man it was easy.

    One of the first questions I ask now... "Do you have a partner?" and so far, even though we are in a bar they will tell me. (All have had partners)

    That is a question for me... Why do partnered guys go to bars to socialize. Maybe just to be with other gay men, feel the camaraderie and socialize without fear of homophobia.
     
  5. PeteNJ

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    Partnered guys go to bars... to find other guys to have sex with. I find very few monogamous gay couples, even those with kids (together, vs kids from a previous relationship/marriage say). And yes, I've slept with a partnered guy a couple times. Never thought I would, but the chemistry & relationship were/are there.

    Back to the question -- yes, I think there are many gay men who are thrilled, relieved, and happy to DATE vs meet and have sex right away. I was at a picnic this past Sunday of gay men, and many of us all thought that dating was really pretty nice vs. NSA hook ups!

    Be explicit in your online/app profile. And if someone asks you online "what do you want" say "dating" rather than "hook up" LOL!

    To be blunt, though, I've met guys at bars, who are pretty darned insistent on leaving together to have sex at the end of the night. Last week, this one guy, whom I talked with but thought was kind of creepy, literally held me against the wall. Just be clear about you want and don't want. IMO alcohol causes some stupid behavior, so watch your own intake as well.
     
  6. diegohrz

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    I have never been married, but I have been leading a very heterosexual life (at least from an outside point of view) up to 6 months ago and was definitely headed down that road of getting married etc.

    If I were you, I wouldn't get too stressed about all of this. You could find that what you feel like doing in reality may not be what you expected to feel like doing. No matter if you're talking about sexual boundaries within a dating context or just a context of hooking up, remember that you decide what you want to do and what you don't want to do.

    I was worried about this too, but it is surprisingly easy. I have been in denial about my orientation for a long time, so I think it's natural to want to take things slow. Every guy that I have had any type of contact with, has been very understanding of this. If it helps you feel at ease, you can always mention it beforehand. I often say: listen, before we continue this talk, I want to make some things clear. And then you say what you want to do and what you don't. If they have something else in mind, they can opt out. No loss on either end that way.

    Set your own boundaries and respect them. I try to do the same. And if someone reacts badly to this, or accuses you of wasting their time or something, that is their problem. No one can force you to do anything you don't want to do. Choose your own pace and you'll be fine. If you do stuff against your will because someone asks you to, it is likely that you will regret it later anyway.

    I don't have a lot of experience with guys yet, but from my limited experience I can tell that any sexual act is much more enjoyable if there is some chemistry or an emotional connection. Doesn't have to be big love either, but with some guys it just clicks more than with others :slight_smile:
     
  7. Cool Bananas

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    Hi Diegohrz, thanks for your words of wisdom, I have started chatting to a guy and I am a little concerned how forward they are, so your message is good set some boundaries for yourself.

    Seems like EC is going to be useful going forward even when you become comfortable with yourself and then working out what you want from a partner.
     
  8. diegohrz

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    You're more than welcome :slight_smile:. These are just my personal findings. Also, when other guys are forward that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's their way of letting you know what they want. You just need to communicate. Just know your own boundaries and know that you don't owe people anything. Any date is supposed to be fun for both parties.
     
  9. KhanSaheb

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    I have to disagree with this. I think it perpetuates an unfair stereotype of gay men. I worked in gays bars in the 80s and 90s, so I have a different perspective.

    Gay bars have a long history of being the social center of the LGBT community. For a long time, they were the only safe place for gay and lesbian people to meet - and sometimes that wasn't even safe. The Stonewall Inn was a gay bar.

    Admittedly, we now have more options, but the core of our community is still the gay bar. Many cities have LGBT softball leagues, bowling leagues, and other sports associations. But you'll notice that each team is most-likely sponsored by one of the bars. In the 80s, 90s, and even today, fundraisers for AIDS and LGBT charities are more often than not held at or sponsored by gay bars. If you want to pick up the local LGBT newspaper, step into a gay bar. They're there, and probably free for the taking. You'll find them next to all the pamphlets and flyers giving information about LGBT resources in your city. Gay bars are also where partnered couples, either alone or together, can get together with their friends and socialize in a carefree atmosphere. Finding a partner does not mean that you have to move to the suburbs and stop socializing with other gay people.

    Now, having said all of that...

    Yes. Some men cheat. This is true regardless of the sexual orientation. We are genetically programmed to spread our seed with as many different mates as possible. I'll even go so far as to theorize that gay male couples may have a higher percentage of partners who cheat. Face it, in our formative years, we were denied even the idea of having love and sex. So when we're all grown up, we spend a great deal of time craving that. It takes a great deal of restraint, given genetic programming and societal damage, to remain monogamous. However, I believe Rita Mae Brown said it best; "Monogamy is not natural, but it is necessary."

    One may also encounter many open relationships in gay male couples. I have seen many couples who, for one reason or another, are able to separate their love for each other from the physical needs of sex. They've turned the quote around for themselves and said, "monogamy is not necessary, let's go with the natural." If that works for them, who are we to judge? Sometimes, it's a matter of logistics, as well. If two complete bottoms or two complete tops fall in love with each other, it's only natural for other sex partners to be involved.

    So it may be true that some partnered guys go to gay bars to find other guys for sex. But I think it's an inaccurate statement to say that that's the reason partnered guys go to gay bars.
     
  10. skiff

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    My opinion...

    Like the black rights movement the gay rights movement will evolve and the bar scene will be relegated to bar flies and casual sex addicts as gays move into healthier mainstream venues.

    It is a natural progression.

    Just my opinion.
     
  11. bdman

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    If your over 30 (or thereabout) this is a major concern. This age group grew up in a world where gay people couldn't have traditional relationships, get married, raise families etc. All they really had was sex and drugs...that's what being gay was mostly about so that's what was available.

    Now with the world changing younger people will have other options. If your like me, you grew up in a straight world trying to conform to a straight life. Which means all I wanted for my future was a traditional family life. Being gay got in the way of that. Now that I'm true to who I am, I still want the same type of relationship, just with a guy instead of a girl. But I find most of the gay world at my age is still about sex and sometimes drugs. There are some exceptions, but they are so few and far between (and don't carry signs on their head) that you may never meet one in person and know it. I still haven't. How many people like this would you have to meet to find someone you are compatible with.

    I envy the younger generation that they won't have to deal with this seemingly insurmountable problem.
     
  12. DesertTortoise

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    Is there an LGBT pool league in Philly?

    ---------- Post added 6th Aug 2013 at 07:36 PM ----------

    The 'healthier mainstream environment' only turns us into slaves and complict killers in this Empire of Money and Death. Let being Queer mean more--having experienced what it's like to be outsiders, let us never surrender our insight to the comfort of being accepted into the Plantation.
     
  13. KhanSaheb

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  14. skiff

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    Hi,

    Maybe the public face of being gay but not the reality. I grew up during that time period and never had hookups or used drugs. Neither did the other gays I knew.

    If I had to speak for gay men in my demographic we were presented with a choice; a) toss risk to the wind and choose a possible death by AIDS, b) choose a cautious life (mostly closeted). What are the odds those risking AIDS would engage in other high risk behaviour? This set the stereotype you describe.

    Look at EC... Every week 50+ age men realizing they are gay, their denial was so high over a subconscious choice in youth. I would guess there are many, many more that never come out but live totally unfulfilled or live giving bisexuals a bad reputation.

    I believe the AIDS crisis created a large closeted gay demographic in addition to killing many on the casual sex side of the fence. There was no safe sex education then and much of that fear is still engrained in the 50+ population. A 25 year old today has a totally different emotional response to HIV than a 50+.

    This flavoured gay stereotypes to the view you hold, it does not speak to the very large cautious, closeted bubble of gay men society NEVER noticed.
     
  15. bdman

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    I think it is still the reality that is backed up by stats. But not you Skiff as you are one of the exceptions and I'm sure you found like minded people to hang with. Isn't it funny that with all the sex education that you speak of, the spreading of AIDS among gay men is increasing...not decreasing. The reasons are very debatable and sometimes contradicting.

    I do agree that the larger groups of older men are coming out now, and they may be wanting something different than the typical gay man for the same reasons as I do.
    I would love to see what percentage of 20 somethings identify as gay compared to the percentage of 30/40 or 50 somethings. I'm sure that the percentage that are gay are probably the same, but to realize and identify as such are probably way different. But as you point out they are grouping in the online world from all over the world, not so much in the real world in one location. Sample size needs to be addressed when making these kinds of generalizations.
     
  16. skiff

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    Ummm...

    You are talking about polling on a subject where the denial can be so deep the individual fails to realize they are gay.

    If people deny to self imagine how bad the poll numbers are.

    ---------- Post added 7th Aug 2013 at 03:48 PM ----------

    When I was in the closet no pollster was getting the truth.
     
  17. PeteNJ

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    Its still the case, IMO, that while there's far more acceptance of the LGBT community, coming out is still excruciatingly hard for many young people (never the mind us, umm, mature people!), depending on the family dynamic, religion, political climate at home, ethnicity/culture.
     
  18. bdman

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    this is true, but not as hard as it used to be.