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would you date an old friend?

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Dragonbait, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Dragonbait

    Dragonbait Guest

  2. Tightrope

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    I glanced at the article. I would not do it, especially if there had previously been something involvement that was more than platonic. I might, just might, if it had been strictly platonic before, and maintaining the friendship was talked about beforehand. But who's to stop someone from developing feelings? If that's the case, then the friendship is gone, too. I'd just prefer to avoid this.
     
  3. Dragonbait

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    Hmm, and therein lies the risk, doesn't it? So maybe by posting this here we'll see who are the gamblers among us and who prefer the safety net.

    I don't think I could ever do it - but not for the reasons you list. Mine are more around my compulsive need to please and fulfill expectations (an issue that is way up high on the list for my therapist, believe you me) and the fact that my relationships tend to follow whatever expectations the other party sets out for them. So if there is a pre-existing relationship, I would never be able to step outside the boundaries of what had been expected of me to let the relationship evolve into something more. I can evolve and change, but when I do that means building new relationships with new people. I don't ever want to let anyone down in their expectations by changing, so instead I just withdraw and disappear.

    It's really very sad.
     
  4. greatwhale

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    I would bet that most people around my age have someone "on the back burner" that, were it not for circumstances, would have been very much a possible mate.

    In my "hookup phase", there were some very special people with whom I have regrettably lost contact. There are even some guys in my youth who I wonder whether they were gay by the attention they gave to me...all speculation of course, but who knows?

    I would be adventurous enough to try it...I operate on the basis that a strong relationship starts with a strong friendship, and I have often come across people who've been in a relationship and then reverted to their friend zone...not unheard of, and probably a recipe for an even deeper friendship...
     
  5. biAnnika

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    I gotta say I don't get all the issues. But I know my ways of thinking are far from the mainstream.

    And I'm definitely a safety net person...generally speaking.

    "Who's to stop someone from developing feelings?" Wasn't the whole point to develop feelings? Or see if deeper feelings would develop? I mean, I assume there were already feelings involved to begin with.

    If they always liked each other (as friends), and were interested in getting closer...just the fact that they were *interested* in getting closer is enough for me to say, "of course you should get closer".

    The notion that they were good friends before seems only a plus to me. I would never want to be in a relationship with someone I *didn't* consider a close friend. That is in fact pretty much a prerequisite for sex in my book.

    I mean, I don't *think* they decided to date *only* because they were friends and were both single. I'd like to think there was some level of genuine attraction. Otherwise, it looks more like a bid to be partners in the next Julie&Julia sensation.

    I don't love the structure they put to it. I mean, if a first date is awful, then criminy, why put up with 39 more days? Why have to see one another *every* day? Sometimes a day (or two) away can work wonders (hadn't they heard that absence makes the heart grow fonder?). An exclusivity agreement seems fine to me...even sensible these days. But otherwise, to me, a relationship should be organic. But to each their own...if it worked for them, great.

    I *hated* the fact that they built up a fan base and had people speculating and offering advice on when they should have sex. Holy shit. What a way to kill a relationship (not the sex...the involvement of friends and random others in your sex). And I *despised* the notion that their relationship was not "real" until they'd had sex. I mean, come on...are you trying to see if a relationship works, or are you trying to host a mini-drama? Make up your mind and do one or the other.

    But to the question "would you date an old friend?" I give an enthusiastic "hell yes!" Would I want a 40-day "safety net"? No...I would want the safety net to walk away any time I decide it's done.

    And as to the possibility of this ruining a great friendship? Sheesh, I've seen great friendships ruined for all kinds of stupid reasons. At least I'd be giving this one a chance to deepen. If it didn't work out because I learned my great friend was in fact a selfish lout or hateful jerk...well damn, then *that's* why they'd lose my friendship...not because we'd "tried to make us work." Trying to make us work would just be how that information was revealed to me.

    So I'm looking at what all I've written so far, and thinking, damn, yeah, I really must just think about these things differently from most people. So maybe I should shut up now.
     
  6. BooksJeansTea

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    I'd risk it. :slight_smile:
     
  7. Tightrope

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    Both good comments and both of which I have felt or experienced. As for the back burner, these are people that we friend zoned and with whom our lives intersected briefly, only to have moved or gone on to a different chapter of life.

    As for hookups, there are both mature and immature people who might do this, irrespective of age. For some people, it's less than human, and they couldn't possibly conceive associating with someone from such a compartmentalized situation. For others, they realize that the other person, other than a past hookup or future sex, is someone worth knowing. People are in very different places when in this mode.
     
  8. Dragonbait

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    Pardon my excising the irrelevant aspects of your post (irrelevant to my response - not to your thoughts or this thread) but I try to be mindful of the server when possible. :icon_wink

    To your first point, I guess I'm not most people, but as I indicated earlier, I'm more of the bridge burner than the back burner type. Which raises an interesting paradigm shift for me in the midst of ending my marriage, and brings me to the second point of yours that I wanted to address.

    Being in a relationship then reverting to the friend zone... which is, it would seem, what my future-ex and I are in the process of attempting to achieve. And if progress to date is anything to go by, I strongly suspect that we will be much better suited as friends than we ever were as partners. And if 21+ years together doesn't provide enough ingredients for a deeper friendship, I can't imagine what would!
     
  9. biggayguy

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    I have a friend from my GSA college days that helped me when I was bi'. Yesterday, I called him and told him I was gay. He seemed very happy to hear from me. We talked for over an hour. I had a big crush on him and he knows it. He didn't get involved with me because I was bi'. Now, this may not become anything but old friends re-connecting. OTOH, it could lead to romance. We will just have to see what happens!
     
  10. Dragonbait

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    Sorry Annika, excised you as well. It's all in the interest of saving space - I'm so thoughtful that way. :lol:

    1. Everyone seems to have different issues, so no one should be expected to get all of them.

    2. I agree in theory and have in fact made a habit of putting this into practice, but for me, in this particular example it would not work. The key here being the "old" friend. I can meet a new person, find a spark or common thread, become fond of them, let my attachment and emotional investment in them grow and develop - I'm not stunted in that way - and a friend can certainly become a lover, and hopefully a potential lover would certainly first become a friend. BUT... (see #5)

    3. I agree. I would totally fail this experiment solely due to the stricture imposed upon it. I'm programmed to rebel against micro-management.

    4. I do believe the fan base, book and movie deal were the ultimate goal of the endeavor. The 'experiment' was simply the vehicle. I'm skeptical as to if any true romantic relationship ever really did develop, or if that was simply to satisfy the demands of the blog's followers.

    5. And here is my issue with the whole "would you date an old friend" question, and it takes me back to the way in which I fulfill the expectations of others. I would always rather cut ties than deal with the effects of disappointing someone I care about. Sh*t, I've been sitting around for decades waiting for everyone that loved me to die before I would stand up and inform any of them that I was done living the life they wanted for me and was now going to start living my own damn life. So would I date an old friend? No. Because every old friend I have ever had has an expectation of me being straight. So instead, I'll burn bridges, cut ties, or hide my true self rather than allow them to see me as I truly am. Won't stop me from being me, but I'll just have to do it among a whole new set of friends. (Unless of course I make some astounding headway with my therapist! Guess there's always hope.)

    6. Great friendships ruined for all kinds of stupid reasons? See #5. :icon_redf

    7. We're all different, that's what keeps things interesting. I wouldn't throw topics like this out here if I thought everyone else thought the exact same thing as me. Why bother? I love the exchange, please keep it coming!
     
    #10 Dragonbait, Sep 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2013
  11. Californiacoast

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    In a heartbeat! I thought of one guy in particular that I first had sexual experience with in my teens. We had not seen each other in years until traveling in New York, we ran into each other at the "Final Four" college basketball tourney. I felt my heart skip. It was ten years later on FB that we connected. I came out to him. He said he had been to the Castro before. His profile shows kids but no wife. He is an attorney in Mississippi. I would love the chance to try it for 40 days. To see if that guy I had a teen crush on is the man I would fall in love with now. What would I have to lose? Assuming he is gay of course, lol!
     
  12. Dragonbait

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    A. You had a sexual experience with him as a teen.
    B. Do you think he was in the Castro as a tourist?
    I'm thinking A + B >= Bi (at the very least!)

    Damn, man, go for it!
     
  13. Choirboy

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    No wonder you and I click so well, Dragonbait. I've followed the exact same pattern over the years, and seem to keep withdrawing by moving foward and away. It's not so much that I burn the bridges--it's more like they all feel like one-way roads, so making a U-turn and going back over them again isn't an option.

    That being said, I do feel like it's something I wouldn't mind exploring eventually. Maybe I can consider it part of the new me--being more open to revisiting the past with the eyes of the present. Lord knows I was pretty horribly unappealing in days gone by, particularly grade school and high school, all fat and awkward and shy and fearful. My level of self-awareness and confidence has improved quite a bit (and it took a major spike a couple days ago!), and while no one will be hiring me as a model, I feel more comfortable with my looks at this age than I ever did before.

    No timetables for me, though. If the last few weeks have taught me anything, it's that planning and over-thinking are my enemies, and having an idea works better than having a plan. I wrote my best papers in college by sketching out a basic outline and then sitting down at the typewriter and letting the thoughts out. I think it's time to apply that to life in general!
     
    #13 Choirboy, Sep 4, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  14. Dragonbait

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    That's the perfect analogy! And much better suited to my M.O. as well. Even in ending my marriage, there was no final major blow out, no dramatic snapping of the last straw, just a silent resignation, eventually followed by a quiet conversation in the deep darkness of pre-dawn hours. (Huh. Just realized that my marriage both began and ended in bed, in the dark - that's where he proposed and that's where we agreed we were done.)

    Avoidance is key for me - that would be another one of my biggest issues (wow, you guys are getting the whole laundry list!) paralyzing fear of confrontation.
     
  15. greatwhale

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    This is part and parcel of a philosophy of life that I espouse: Living without a Goal (capital G) (See Ogilvy's book of the same title). It's the whole art of making it up as you go along, being fully present in the moment, and doing what feels right at that moment. Not to say that there are no practical achievable goals, say writing a book or working to complete some important task. The Goals I'm speaking of are those seemingly noble ideals to which we aspire.

    We so often get into situations, like marriages and careers because we feel we have to live up to some Goal from a menu of choices we think we are limited to (usually some ideal like the perfect marriage, the beautiful home, wealth, fame, the brilliant career, etc.) and in the process we lose ourselves and our sense of what is right for us.

    Living without a Goal is therefore recognizing that plans are (mostly) futile, life doesn't work that way, and that one should take an artistic view of life, stepping back every now and then to take a look at how the whole picture is developing, as it will continue developing, until our very last day...
     
  16. Choirboy

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    What's rather intriguing in all this is that I met up with a couple childhood friends of my brother a couple months ago at a funeral (I was the organist). Both in their late 40's, neither one ever married, and one actually every bit as good-looking as he was years ago (which is saying plenty). I went up to them to say hello and they both were shocked at how completely different I looked (a vast improvement over the 1970's and 1980's, I might add, plus dressd up in a spiffy black suit with a bright lavendar shirt and tie!). But the conversation did drift back to the old days and things I have moved so far past in my mind that I actually felt awkward, like I was being dragged back into a box I had escaped years ago (and moved on to many other boxes since then, of course). It suddenly occurred to me that I had always found the one guy really attractive, but it never had registered in a way I could process at the time.

    I found out a few weeks later that Attractive Guy had done an exceptionally kind and touching gesture for a classmate who died, which impressed me all the more. (The classmate died and had no family, so his body sat in the morgue for several months. Attractive Guy claimed the body and paid the expenses to have him properly buried.) That has made him all the more attractive, and I have to say that if our paths crossed again, I think I would ask some very leading questions.
     
  17. redneck

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    NO, I only have to stick a fork in a light socket once before I learn my lesson. I grew up with my ex-wife (our moms were friends in HS we literally met in diapers) we were great friends in grade school when we hit jr high/high school (small school so they were in the same same building) we hung out with different friends and would have cuss fights at school (gotta keep up appearances) but we still got along great at home (lived next door). We lost contact for a bit but found each other again after college. Well next thing you know I was marred to my best friend. Two years later we were divorced. We kept in contact for a bit but I haven't spoke to her in years. I now know the price so I'm no longer interested in dating friends.

    Now I put people in two separate groups 1:friends 2:significant others. You can start in group 2 and move exclusively to group 1, but if you ever get into group 1 I'll never allow you into group 2.
     
  18. Lexington

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    Obvious question gets obvious answer - it would depend on the friend and my feelings for him. Most friends I probably wouldn't date, simply because I don't view them in a sexual or romantic context, and have little interest in doing so.

    Lex
     
  19. Tightrope

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    Math major in college? Yeah, that's what I was thinking. However, a lot of attorneys seem to divorce because of the stresses of the job more so than any other reason, especially if in an absurdly high-stress environment.

    (The Castro isn't a pass through street like lengthy Santa Monica Boulevard. So, the Castro is a destination, rather than an accident).
     
  20. biggayguy

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    How about the people that say "I'm with/married my best friend." It has certainly seemed to work out for them.