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Old 26th Feb 2007, 02:45 AM   #1
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Default 38 married still in closet

as my header says im 38 married no kids and have been on all kinds of antidepresents , but the real reason im so unhappy is not so much for me but for my wife we no longer sleep in the same bed or are intimate (allmost 5 yrs) i hardly ever leave the house , and just dont no what to do ?,even though it was'nt my intention, because of me , she is childless and now drinks like a fish , but if i tell her what i think i should, i'm scared to be left on my own.

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Old 26th Feb 2007, 07:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

Hey 38,

That sounds like a rough situation to be in and I feel for you. If you're getting antidepresants then are you seeing a doctor of some sort? If so, are you getting counseling as well? If not, it might be a good idea. Maybe you have to get yourself figured out and come to terms with being gay before you can be honest with your wife. If you really care about her, do you think she should have to go on without intimacy or any explanation as to why? It sounds like you are more or less alone now so I think it would be better to be alone and somewhat(completely?) happy with yourself and seeing your ex-wife start to get what she wants, since you care about her. I think you shoud get counseling yourself, then with your wife, then get divorced, and then I hope you will both be happy and content.

Did you figure out that you are gay before or after you got married? If before, why did you get married?
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Old 27th Feb 2007, 01:47 AM   #3
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

i grew up in the 80s whirlwind of clubs crossdressing makeup and sort of fell into the habit of having sex with whoever wanted me for validation i now know.
as i was having sex (or mostly they were ,i was just there) not particualy enjoying the act itself, but feeling desired and wanted was enough my sexuall prefrance did'nt often enter into it .
the woman i married is actually the mistess of my soulmate the person who i was closest to in the whole world but who suddenly passed away in 1992 ,before he died he had spoke of me to her alot ,then she came looking for me, we married after knowing each other less than three months (i know realise we were only really marrying the nearest thing to our departed friend) as im sure you can tell from this brief and slightly disjointed explanation i have had and am living a pretty fxxked up life, i have no family to speak of ( i was in and out of care ,foster homes etc)
all i know is is'm not happy ,i hav'nt actually spoken at all to my wife but i suspect she is'nt happy either. i just do'nt know what to do . it got so bad a few yrs ago that i made a serious attempt to end it but was discovered and spent three touch and go days unconcious in intensive care.
i do have councilling since then but i have not spoke of any of this ,or at least not my sexuality ,and have become so expert at living a lie i do it without thinking and allmost believe it myself ,untill im alone with my thouhts.
i will leave it there for know but would like to chat to whoever can spend the time , thankyou all

Last edited by spydar; 27th Feb 2007 at 01:56 AM.. Reason: streamlining
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Old 28th Feb 2007, 11:21 AM   #4
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Default Long But Read, Please, I Hope It Might Help.

Well for what a fourteen year olds opinion is worth. (And brutal honesty at that, sorry but i have to tell it how i see it)

The longer you wait, the more selfish this marriage seems and the more of your wife's life you are wasting away. I don't mean that to drive you away, but hopefully make you realise there is more than just you and your insecurities at risk here. There is you wife you must consider.

Listen, she's probably almost 40, her life is, by standards, half-over probably more. It's unfair of you to hold her as a human-lock for your closet. At the same time, it is unfair the living conditions you, considering the world you grew up in, had to endure. I ask you to consider this;

The world has changed a bit from the one you knew. Not alot, but changed none the less and continues to do so at a rapid rate. I know you're probably scared, trust me all of us feel it or felt it. But you cannot chain your wife to this sinking ship. You are not the sinking ship i'm refering to of course, but you situation rather.

As you said, you are on antidepressants, which gives me an indication you've probably thought about suicide.....What i need from you for this next part is your full attention. You've considered taking your life, and with it, all remaining hope of a decent living. Now this is opposed to telling your wife your feelings (or even making up a good lie....WHICH IS NOT RECOMMENDED AS IT DOES NOTHING FOR YOUR PSYCOLOGICAL SITUATION AND ONLY CREATES A TANGLED WEB!!) and letting her move on with her life, find a husband, while you will (eventually) do the same.

This all probably seems quite impossible to you now i bet. But listen. I've been there, suicide attempt after suicide attempt. Until i realised, taking my life before i even try, try and make an honest effort to come out and live it through for a couple of months, MADE NO SENSE. Why kill yourself before? Try it, what have you got to lose....you're already considering killing yourself, how much lower can you go. There's only one way up, and you're heart's gotta go there.

Now, i recognise this is hard. And honestly, it's probably better, as most here are nowhere near you age, and hence, inexpierenced in the affairs of marriage.....if you ask one of our lovely mods such as TriBi, Paul, Dave etc. To give you a link to ***...although it is an adult entertainment site, you'd be surprised at how many people are willing (and able) to give quality advice.
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Old 2nd Mar 2007, 06:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

BTW 38 is not old.
thanks for your reply , you have been exposed to a lot in your 14yrs, and seem to think there is no love in my relationship to my wife and also that life is as logical as to answer a problem with an equally logical "action reaction" ? once again;.....really.....thankyou... but there is of course the chance that when you are "anywhere near my age" you will see that all is well cept the plans of mice and men,
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Old 3rd Mar 2007, 01:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

Quote:
Originally Posted by spydar View Post
BTW 38 is not old.
thanks for your reply , you have been exposed to a lot in your 14yrs, and seem to think there is no love in my relationship to my wife and also that life is as logical as to answer a problem with an equally logical "action reaction" ? once again;.....really.....thankyou... but there is of course the chance that when you are "anywhere near my age" you will see that all is well cept the plans of mice and men,
Oh, sorry. Did i say old....i really didn't mean to, 38 isn't old. I consider 60 the beginning of old.....back on subject tho. In no way do i think of life as logical, but it's problems can be sometimes. I don't mean to say there is NO love in your relationship with your wife but it isn't as good as what she could have. The ability to give her all she needs, is not in your power. She needs to expierence her life to it's fullest, and unfortunately (and no offense) she cannot do that with you.

And unfortunately one thing i haven't been exposed to in 14 years, is a good language teacher. Because i had to look up the expression "plans of mice and men", with no avail. So you'll have to re-explain the last bit of your post if of course you wish me to understand.
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Old 8th Mar 2007, 12:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

ugh come out already! If my friend Ty came out at only 15 yrs old you can too.

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Old 8th Mar 2007, 01:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittie View Post
ugh come out already! If my friend Ty came out at only 15 yrs old you can too.
Yeaahh....thats like asking him to stick his hand on the stove element and try not to scream. No offense. I'm sure you meant well...but it is much more difficult than that, espicially because of the age gap. But i agree to a point that he does have to come out.
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Old 8th Mar 2007, 11:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

You said you married each other, more or less, as a way to cope with your friend's death. Are you both comfortable to be married for this reason?

Because if not, perhaps it's time to re-assess things. And if she wants to start a family (obviously with someone else) you'll have to do the selfless thing and break it off sooner rather than later - as painful as that will be...
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Old 11th Mar 2007, 01:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/bestlaidplan.html here is a link explaining my "mice and men" referance, thanks to those of you who have left a comment so far , any more would be very welcome .
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Old 18th Mar 2007, 10:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

HI, As a wife of a gay man you have to tell your wife and get on with your life. If you are not being intimate as often as she would like with her she is probably going through alot of emotions. Especialy if she wants to have children. I'm sorry to get so personal but I have been there and am still going through it. The emotional ups and downs are exhausting. I have been married for 25 yrs to a wonderful guy who refused to be who he is. Granted when we were young we thought love was all we needed to make it work. Then we had a wonderful son and my husband feels trapped. He is always depressed which in turn depresses me and I think he resents me a little because I kind of pressured him for a child. He is always on gay porn which hurts my feelings and he now kind of ignores me. Not only do we have the regular stressors of marriage but we have this also which makes both of us even more stressed. It's not good for your health or for children. Your wife will go through alot of anger and hurt in the beginning but you guys may turn out to be best friends in the end. You deserve someone who will love you with all of their being and so does your wife. My husband is 50 yrs old and thinks there is no one out there for him please don't let that be you. I have to say your wife may feel that way to. Once we women get to a certain age the quys out there are either gay married or want 20 year olds. Oh gotta go my husband is over my shoulder complaining I'm telling you our life story. I feel an argument coming on. Be Strong!
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Old 19th Mar 2007, 04:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

thank sooo much for your message i just cant bring myself to do it (come out to her) i am really scared of being on my own you know the old saying of the grass is allways greener well i feel its probably not a 38 yr old non scene gay man with the beginnings of middle aged spread trust me is not gonna be fighting them off. some of you who have read my posts may be wondering why now? well one reason is that i know she wants a baby , i know for a fact she'll be hurt but i kinda hope she will get so fed up she will leave me , if she dont then it seems to me she loves me and i really really dont want to and couldnt bare to hurt her. i really really dont know how what when or why somethings got to give soon or ill go completely out of my mind. im desperate to be calm inside ! why cant you make an omlette without breaking eggs? as they say.
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Old 23rd Mar 2007, 08:30 AM   #13
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

it has been a little while since my last post and i was hopeing it would have prompted a reply.i need and will really welcome some more perspectives on my situation .Also a big thankyou to all of you that have contributed so far.
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Old 23rd Mar 2007, 08:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

I think I shared with you some of my thoughts directly...

To use your expression - eggs are going to end up broken one way or another I'm afraid. You're either going to explode, or she is, or both of you are... You've likely become so used to living the lie that you don't notice how empty and meaningless your relationship with your wife has become. I hadn't.

Now that she knows - as much as it has caused a VERY PAINFUL situation for both of us as we work through our separation - we are actually very close. The trauma and stress has required us to lean on each other for support and to work together for the good of our kids. As well, now that we (I really) are able to be honest with each other and not keep any secrets, we are communicating much better and 'being there' for each other. I expect we'll continue to be 'best friends' when all is said and done.

Does my wife feel cheated or betrayed - I'm sure she does. But with the help of our therapist I think she also realizes that she can't change anything that has happened in the past, and she has to be comfortable with decisions she is making in the present (i.e. to separate) and can't control what will happen in the future - but only make the best of it for herself and for our two beautiful little girls.

I really do feel better for having this (the fact that I'm attracted to men) out in the open between us - and she has been incredibly supportive and sympathetic. I think you can only hope that your wife will be the same - although everyone is different. You would feel better too - maybe not right away but eventually.

With respect to the kids... I wouldn't have agreed to have them if I didn't love my wife and didn't want them myself. It would be cruel and unfair to everyone to father children if that wasn't the case. And while they certainly add much more complexity to my situation, they will also be a reason for me to be the best person I can be, and will give me a very good reason to remain close to my wife and partner with her as a parent.

Not sure any of this will help - but you asked for it!
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Old 23rd Mar 2007, 01:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

You are taking the "baby steps" needed to eventually come to terms with this situation and that is to be commended. Whether or not you take them to full strides and completion of the journey you appear to be on will be dependent on what you finally decided to do.

There is much going on here, not just what appears to be on the surface (your relationship and interaction with your wife). That at a young and impressionable period of your life you mentioned you were in foster homes, etc. That has likely left you without much of an anchor or foundation in your life and brought about a low self esteem image. As with the animal kingdom we also have an imprint we establish and depending on what the circumstances of it are, it can be good or bad. Once imprinted, it really never changes, but with our intellect and logic we can overcome its base influence on our lives if needed.

With your reactions so far to suggestions and especially unwillingness to admit to your wife your orientation, you have not yet come to grips with the acceptance of who and what you are as well as the responsibility you have in generating the situation. You also feel totally responsible for what has happened and that you are totally responsible for making someone happy.

First off in all relationships there is a shared responsibility for whatever comes about. Poor or lack of any communications (or limited areas of communications) most often leads to strife or dysfunction in the relationship. People feel they don't want to make someone feel bad by saying things that need to be said, either personal emotional issues or outward conduct issues for example. But it is not your responsibility to determine their reactions or outcome of what needs to be said or dealt with. It is your responsibility however to try to couch things in such a way as to not be attacking and being supportive of them in such a way as to help see what is at fault but encouragement that it isn't a deal breaker and they won't be alone in trying to fix it. Some pretty ugly things can be said but in a way that offers solution and not attack or demeaning.

The depression you have is a result of not living according to what the inner you wants. You are not fulfilling really who you are and again because of lack of acceptance of who you are and your responsibility for your part in the present situation you remain in denial. The situation keeps circulating around in your head and you emotionally become worn out with it, thus depressed because you can't seem to get away from it in such a way as to have some enjoyment out of life. But until you are willing to make some changes in attitude towards yourself and how you interact with the world, this will never change. You can't repeat doing the same things in your life and expect different end results, it just doesn't happen.

In order to deal with what is happening you will have to take yourself totally out of your comfort zone with how you feel about things and react to things and become a bit more aware of the background conversation you have with yourself on a daily basis. Now some would say how can it be called a comfort zone when it appears to be causing so much anguish? Well we are habitual creatures and once a habit is established it becomes an automatic process (we are not aware of all the steps involved to get to whatever actions, thoughts, feelings we have). Once in that auto mood it is our comfort zone, even if it is overall "bad" it is what we know and what we consider comfort. Twisted somewhat, but that is the way of it.

To change things means we have to become aware of what our feelings, thoughts, reactions are and from where they come from. In your early life if you are told over and over again that you are not worth anything, then you eventually believe that and your conversation with yourself on a daily basis is for example, "You are not lovable", "You are not worth anything", "you'll never amount to anything", etc. Anything that comes along to change that conversation or attitude or actions taken to make it so will be fought. You just fulfill your attitude towards yourself and re-enforced the validity of what you believe. Becomes a terrible round robin.

Now I can't give you a full round of what needs to be done here. But what is needed here is for you to get into some sort of therapy, if possible later, bring in your wife.

1. Realize you are doing things as you were taught at an early age
2. Doing what and how you have up to now has been an auto process and it is not who or what you are and can be changed.
3. Accept who you are
4. Accept your responsibility for your part in the marriage situation, admitting to it is not a confirmation of you being a bad or unlovable person. Admitting and accepting this is the first steps to correcting things and becoming the loving, caring, decent person you know yourself to be.
5. Tell your wife. She has a right to know she is not the total cause of things and that she is not the only deficient part of the equation.
6. Deal with the facts only, feelings can't be dealt with as they are like the ether, though they need to be expressed. Realize that there is nothing in the world that can't be dealt with in some equitable manner.
7. You are not responsible for someone's happiness, you can only take care of your own. Yes your actions or lack thereof can cause problems and you can change what and how you do; you can't be responsible how someone else will respond/react to something or how they will deal with it.
8. Realize you have to be loving and caring to yourself before you can be so with someone else. You have a right to be here and you have a right to be happy.
9. Get into therapy with someone good. If the first person doesn't seem to help, seek out another and another until you find someone who is willing to actually help you.
10. Give up being a victim.
11. Give yourself patience. We all have our faults and failings but that doesn't mean we can never change. Positive steps to correct things will bring positive results, but those results may take weeks or months to begin to be seen. Give it plenty of time but keep working on it.
12. Do not fear the unknown. It is not something to be feared but accepted as a means of adventure. If you don't want to plunge right into it, you can then at least start out by sticking your big toe in, then your foot, then your leg, etc. Just don't back away once you start, a good life could well be achieved.

Sorry if this is long but as I said at the beginning, there is a lot going on below the surface and it is not something that can be dealt with in a forum such as this, but hopefully some seeds can be planted and a germination begun. We can change and become totally different if we want to, but it takes effort, patience, acceptance and love, BUT it can be done.

So how willing are you to give up your comfort zone and venture into becoming totally a different person and one who enjoys life?
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Old 24th Mar 2007, 04:44 AM   #16
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

Spydar,

I haven't ventured into this thread before because I hadn't been too sure how I could say something that could be really helpful...but I tend to think that Jim and Jayhew have pretty much taken care of that .

What they said also prompted me to think I should point you to this thread (if you haven't found it already): Parent/Family Stages of Grief

It might help you to work out where you are in the whole "acceptance" process at the moment...and give you a better understanding of where your wife will be when you (as I think you will realise you have to) tell her.

I hope it helps - and I hope you find the courage you need to go forward with it.
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Old 27th Mar 2007, 12:14 AM   #17
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

38,

Listen, being alone is difficult, but knowing that you are waking up to a lie is millions times worst, believe me-be strong and have enough selfrespect and courage and know that you leaving is for the best of you both-she will deal with it and be fine-life is too short don't waste another minute living it unhappy, make the best out of it. Don't be selfish, she needs a life and so do you, get away from there and make it on your own, everyone goes through it, find help-professionally-it will help you, ask her to go with you, you need inner-peace and so does she, don't waste anymore time and stop feeling sorry for yourself or her-turn that arround and do something about it-life is about changes and positivity, you are not doing either, wake up dude, being gay is old news to many, they don't care, you should not either, don't let that define you and get away form negative influences-become positive and go with your instincts.
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Old 5th Apr 2007, 12:11 AM   #18
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

iv decided the last thing i want is more heartache and upheavel i have been celibate for allmost 4,1/2yrs and afterall what i know i do have for a fact is my wife of 13yrs so someting must be right ,ok? we have been together far longer than most married (or unmarried)couples also the people in my neighbourhood who know me might feel different towards me if i come out ,even if they dont it might not be that safe for me when the gossip gets around ,so why make my life even more difficult? so untill im forced to find a new life i.e my wife leaves me or has an affair im just going to count my blessings after all theres allways someone else out there with far more shitty exsistences than mine and i have'nt yet had any advice to change my mind (on the contary, no offence) so there it is for the forseable future .A full closet . though im sure i will still visit the site from time to time.
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Old 5th Apr 2007, 12:56 AM   #19
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

Sorry, but after that post, I'm gonna be blunt:

You refuse to come-out because you fear change - you fear the unknown. Think about it. (I felt the same - but change is NOT to be feared. There is a better way than present!)

I promise you: 1) that change is stressful, BUT 2) after coming out, your life-stresses will lessen to the same amounts as every other average Joe in the community.

Speaking of the community: I have personally found that my community does not care a toss about my sexuality. People have better things to worry about - like their own lives. (ie the world doesn't revolve around us)

Please convince yourself that you're in a rut and that you NEED change.

Goodluck!

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Gay isn't bad, just different... Vive la diférence!

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Old 5th Apr 2007, 06:11 AM   #20
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Default Re: 38 married still in closet

In Spydar's defence, I can certainly relate to those feelings of uncertainty around coming out at our age. You're afraid of how people will react - not to us being gay, but us deceiving them all these years. (Little do they know that we've been deceiving ourselves all this time as well.)

However, I may have said it above, but I'll say it again - my wife an I are closer now and feel our love for each other now, more than before, now that I've told her and we're being completely honest with each other. What makes our situation different from yours is that we did have two beautiful children, and my wife and i both love them SO MUCH, and I think we feel blessed that we've had the opportunity to have these years together and have these two little girls.

If having children is important to your wife - then you owe it to her to come straight out (pardon the pun) and tell her that you do not want children. That alone may prompt her to move one - without you getting into the issue of your sexual orientation.

It remains squarely with you... Someone shared with me recently a variation of the serenity prayer:

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the people I can't change,
The courage to change the one person that I can,
And the wisdom to recognize that person is me."

Good luck.
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