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First "Out"ing, total fail

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Dragonbait, Sep 27, 2013.

  1. Dragonbait

    Dragonbait Guest

    I think the funniest (ironic, not humorous) thing about the story I'm going to share is that the epic level of failure on my friend's part didn't even occur to me for weeks. How could I have so completely missed that?

    So here's the story.

    I have a friend (I'll call him 'Fred') who I've known for 6 years, who is familiar with almost all of my dirty laundry and who currently lives across the country from me. He's a practicing PsyD, but to me, just a friend. He's been telling me for years that I needed to get a divorce, and he's been telling me for years that I need to see a therapist.

    So now that I'm actually in the process of getting that divorce and I have asked his advice on things like how to find a good therapist, how to tell if it's working for me, how and when to tell my kids about what's going on, etc. So he knew that I wasn't thrilled with the therapist I had found, and offered to contact a colleague of his in a nearby city to see if she could recommend anyone in my area.

    Now, the one bit of dirty laundry Fred was not familiar with was the fact that about the same time that I informed my husband that I was finally giving up on our marriage, I started questioning my sexual identity. So I decided that it was something pretty important for Fred to know when he went seeking recommendations, cause I really want someone who can help me work through all this. So in an email to him I wrote the following:

    "Here's the caveat though, and the thing I've only discussed with one other living being. I need someone who can help me dig through a lifetime of sexual issues and repression. I can't bring myself to go into details with you, but it involves issues stemming from childhood on, and I'm pretty certain will result in my coming out as either asexual, bi, or gay. For many years I've been suspecting that I'm asexual, but I've lately started wondering if my lack of interest isn't something else, and I'd really like to work with someone who can help me through this differentiation. Crap! I can't believe I actually just put that in writing.

    Fred, I really need some help. I'm descending into tears at the slightest provocation - it's worse than f'ing pregnancy, and then I cried at every damn Hallmark commercial. This is so not me, and I just don't know how to cope. It's affecting every aspect of my life, and being new in the job in the midst of this isn't serving to make me quite as impressive as I'd like. Quite the opposite in fact.

    So. I'm writing all this to you from a plane, heading from xxx to xxx. We get in at some ungodly hour, stay at an airport hotel, drive out to xxx in the morning to visit (husband)'s dying brother, then the boys and I will head off to my nephews wedding. Without (husband). And nobody other than the boys knows about the divorce. I will be facing my entire extended family, without (husband), and be unable to show the slightest sign of how I'm feeling.

    Wish me luck!

    Luv you, miss you, and long for one of your hugs!
    (Dragonbait)

    ps Because I can't actually send this until the plane lands, I've got plenty of time to obsess over it. And as much as I can't believe I actually told you about my issues with my sexuality, I had to laugh as I reread it. I am such a coward. I really do think I'm a g*d-damn lesbian and that I've been in denial since, ummm, puberty? Thank you Roman Catholic upbringing, youngest child, and survivor guilt. Fred. I'm just a f*cking mess. The therapist I'm working with now thinks that she's dealing with someone trying to get through the divorce process, but I couldn't even have reached that point on my own two feet. I'm pretty sure I need some serious help, and I'm not getting the vibe that the woman I'm seeing is the one to provide it. Heres to hoping that your friend in XX knows someone capable of digging me out of this awful hole."

    And a few days later, "Fred" replied. His reply was exactly as follows:

    (Dragonbait), Here are 3 referrals from my friend, in order of preference. She suggests that you check their websites before calling. She doubts that they are on any insurance panels. They are all excellent therapists.

    Then he listed 3 names, with the towns they are located in and their phone numbers. And that's it. No words of good luck, no acknowledgement of the fact that I had exposed myself blatantly to him, not even a closing salutation. NOTHING! And for some reason, it didn't even register with me until I pulled up his email again yesterday, a couple of weeks later, to see if any of the people his friend suggested were located anywhere near me. This man is a practicing therapist himself, has been someone I considered a very good friend for years, and that was his response.

    Not a great start to my first 'coming out'. :confused:
     
  2. Pat

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    Hm. It could be that it's something common, but I would feel similarly to how you feel. A little alone, not embraced.. that kind of bid. Does he know your husband also? As in, a friendship? I'd say it's pretty odd to express yourself via email and to not see a response. At all. I recently told a guy I hooked up with several times in high school that I'm gay (as if he didn't know) and he seriously overlooked that part of what I told him. (he had asked me if I was gay a couple years after high school and asked what our whole "thing" was about, and I told him I wasn't sure..was still scared to come out) So I told him that I missed his friendship and wanted to officially let him know and he overlooked it! So, been there.. Don't let it stifle you though, the psychiatrist you do go see will help you cope and also get to the next level of acceptance within yourself. I'd assume if the psychiatrist can't make you feel more secure in your shoes that he's not doing a very great job, but that's just opinion based. If it were established as something detrimental to your well being or others, I would imagine that you'd hit a stalemate with a shrink, but in this instance, you're going to better all of the relationships in your life, and ultimately have closure with yourself one way or another and I think it would be really effective to have some help equip you with tools to move on from this stage of your life.
     
  3. oddlife35

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    Sorry to hear. I think sometimes therapists are just really rational sometimes, kind of get cold like doctors to sick patients. But still, he's supposed to be professional and also a friend. Either way, still a cold shoulder! I'd write him and ask him what's up, because it would nag me like crazy!

    PS. I just came out last week to 2 people as well. Congrats!
     
  4. ClosetedFather

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    I have a good friend that is a Psychiatrist and we have had some conversations about the downfalls of his profession. It may have simply been that he was feeling uncomfortable that the line between friend and patient was about to be crossed and your best coarse of action was to find a therapist on a professional level. Give it a little time, some therapy and I think your next conversation may go much better. Psychiatrist certainly have a different way of thinking about things. Good Luck.
     
  5. Klutz

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    This is what I was thinking. You were asking a professional for a referral. You gave the professional information to make a good decision as to the referral. That might be the way he was looking at it, and because of that, filing it in the "professional" category where he won't bring it up in a casual setting, ever. Because it would be a betrayal of the trust you showed him by sharing.

    The terseness of the reply was rude, however. I hope everything works out for you.
     
  6. Choirboy

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    My thoughts as well. Not a very personable response on his part, but he may have been unclear as to whether you were giving him this information on a friendship level or a professional level, and decided to play it safe. Personally I would have asked you that question directly, but that's me.

    I told my very favorite cousin in the world 2 days ago (bring my total "out to" count up to 7!) and was a little surprised at her general lack of a reaction. She was supportive, yes, but she hardly commented in any way at all. She later explained in another message that "she's from California and pretty much anything goes here and no one cares about it". Knowing how open a person she is and how she generally has no filter of any kind on her feelings, I was pretty satisfied with the explanation. Perhaps if you talk to your friend a little more (if you even want to, of course), he might explain his reaction?
     
  7. greatwhale

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    I think Choirboy is on to something. It may very well be, in your friend's mind, no big deal. Nevertheless, I think there should have been some acknowledgement, especially since he didn't hesitate to council you with regard to getting a divorce.

    Generally, when I look at people's feelings here at EC about the reaction of friends and family, there often is a sense of "is that all there is?". This huge monumental paradigm-shift in our heads is tenaciously staying there, in our heads, and we so wish that others could understand how monumental it is to us....but perhaps this is a consequence of greater acceptance; maybe this should be a good thing...
     
    #7 greatwhale, Sep 28, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  8. biAnnika

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    Meh, I missed it too, frankly.

    His e-mail came off to me as "in-a-hurry-efficient"...he didn't have time to write something long, but wanted to get you what you needed (a decent therapist...yes, completely ignoring that what you needed also included a sympathetic friend...remember that "Fred" doesn't specialize in LGBT issues, and so may well have missed the significance of the difficulties you're going through).

    But if that was his *most recent* message to you, then as time passed and I got nothing more warm and fuzzy, yes, I would start to wonder what the hell is up.

    I agree with oddlife that I'd feel compelled to follow up and find out if anything's wrong...BUT, that is *my* neurosis. I also realize that maybe *he's* going through something and doesn't have time right now for fuzziness...it's always so much more about the other person than about you!

    And as others point out, he may find it difficult to advise or be effective as a friend without verging into his clinical side...but you don't have a therapeutic relationship, so the whole thing could get awkward for him...again, his issue, not yours. I have a close friend who is a therapist (not mine), and I have noticed at times a similar coldness from him when I start getting into difficult personal issues.
     
  9. greatwhale

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    I have often quoted James Hillman and Michael Ventura from their book We've had a Hundred Years of Psychotherapy: and the World's Getting Worse, and there is a passage that the above discussion reminded me about psychotherapists:

    Ventura: And the psyche says to therapists especially, "I'll make you boring." That's what the therapists I know complain about.

    Hillman: Oh, yes. The repressive atmosphere of therapy--

    Ventura: --repressive to the therapist--

    Hillman: --that dictates psychology has to be respectable. This produces a terrible repression to the actual psychologist. We're not allowed in the street. We have to be careful, pretty correct, not extreme or radical, and not mix it up with our clients and patients out in the world. And this slants our thinking toward white, middle-class psychology. As one good friend of mine told me, "The trouble with getting old as a therapist is that I can't grow into my eccentricity." Because what's expected of a therapist is regular hours, being on time, being a kind of square, reasonable person. The therapist is unconsciously modeling the goal of therapy.

    Ventura: The therapist is unconsciously modeling the unconscious goal of therapy.

    Hillman: Well, that isn't my goal. The goal of my therapy is eccentricity, which grows out of the Jungian notion of individuation. Jung says, "You become what you are." And nobody is square. We all have, as the Swiss say, a corner knocked off.
     
  10. Dragonbait

    Dragonbait Guest

    Thanks all. Intellectually what you are pretty much unanimously telling me makes sense, but here's where my emotional nature takes over. I can hear it and acknowledge it, but it doesn't make me feel any better about it.

    This is a close friend, someone whose arms I've cried in before. Who, I might add (in response to ClosetedFather, Klutz and Choirboy) has never had an issue with the line between his profession and our friendship in the past. Now, I divulged my innermost secret, expressed how everything in my life coming to a head at once is tearing me up, told him how much I missed him and how much I needed a hug, and instead I got a cold shoulder. And to Annika's point, I did at first consider it as a rushed message to get the info to me ASAP, but that's the last I heard from him. It's been more than two weeks.

    And no, for any of you who've read my comments in other threads, you'll know that I run from confrontation of any sort, so I will not be reaching out with a "WTF?" Yes, I know none of you recommended a confrontational follow-up, but any inquiry on my part would feel as such to me. Not to mention set me up for additional disappointment and potentially worse yet, outright rejection. No thanks, this was bad enough - and especially from my first foray into outing myself to the person I considered my 'safest' bet.

    I'll just concentrate my energy on finding that "excellent therapist" and take it one step at a time from there. And you can rest assured GreatSap :wink: that my ideal therapist will not have being square as a goal for me! Hell, I'm trying to break out of the box I squished myself into. I don't just want to knock a corner off, I want to blow the damn thing to shreds!

    Pat, you definitely seem to get my perspective. No, he's never been friends with my husband, never really gave him more than a passing nod. Our friendship was always a part of my life completely outside of my family dynamic, so his only real view of it has been from my perspective.

    Oddlife! Congrats to YOU! How did it go? (Hopefully better for you than me.) Who did you tell? How did they respond? How did it feel? I've dreamed that it would feel completely liberating, was really looking forward to that feeling. My own effort has just left me empty. Maybe you can offer me some hope?
     
    #10 Dragonbait, Sep 28, 2013
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  11. biAnnika

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    Hey dear...I don't think any of us were trying to make you feel better. Only you can make you feel better, ever.

    We were just sharing perspectives. What you do with them (internally and externally) is according to your individual makeup, tendencies, sensibilities, etc. My own tendency is toward double-think: I simultaneously take comfort *and* continue to stress. But that's my reaction and my issue. Mileage will vary *smile*.
     
  12. Dragonbait

    Dragonbait Guest

    No, no. I get it. I was just trying to say that I understand everything all of you wrote, I might make the same excuses if I weren't the one emotionally involved. But that's just it. I am. And there's a huge gap between head and heart. Having that knowledge doesn't change how I feel, which is disappointed and probably a little petulant at the moment, too. (where's the smilie with the pouty lip?)

    I didn't get want I really wanted - which was acceptance and maybe some words of comfort.
    I didn't even get what I thought to expect - which was at the very least acknowledgement. Instead, I'm feeling completely disregarded and maybe dismissed, and that hurts. Guess I better get used to it if I intend to make a habit of this, huh?
     
  13. biAnnika

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    Go easy on yourself: you have every right to feel disregarded, dismissed, unacknowledged, and disappointed and petulant. That is what happened, even though there could be extenuating circumstances to explain why...it doesn't change that it happened. Well...you weren't *completely* disregarded...at least he wrote back with the information you requested. But still, your feelings are completely reasonable here.

    But it's true, dammit: you didn't just *want* acceptance and comfort...you *needed* them. And I am really sorry you didn't get them. I am especially sorry that this was your experience with *the first person* you came out to. I *promise* it will not be the same with every person you come out to...and I *nearly* promise that you won't have to get used to being disregarded by those you tell.

    I *might* recommend, though, that your next out-coming happen face-to-face with the target...on a *good* day it is difficult to understand what another person is thinking or feeling over the internet, or to correctly or productively interpret sudden silences...these issues are more rare and less caustic in person. And nobody is going to *surprise* you with hate to your face...if you feel comfortable sharing this information about yourself with them (i.e., if hate would be a surprise), then you'll probably get the acceptance you need.
     
  14. awesomeyodais

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    Any possibility "Fred" the person, (ignore for a moment the fact he's a trained therapist) who was suggesting a divorce was in your future had some glimmer of hope he could be more than a friend one day? That while joking about the divorce it was in his best interest too? 'Cause your little email revelation sure would have shattered that idea...
    I hope that experience doesn't stop you from coming out to others, one at a time and at the right time/environment. Doesn't always get better, but it usually gets easier.
     
  15. oddlife35

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    Hi Dragonbait (I'm intrigued by your name).

    Yeah, it was a great experience, but also surreal and also now just normal. I don't want to make it out to more than it was, but also it was something I have been waiting so long to do and I did have a good experience.

    I came out to my sister and brother and law. I had been pretty sure they were the safest people I could come out to and this turned out to be right. My brother-in-law's sister is a lesbian. He had really supported her when she was going through some tough times and he confronted his parents about it just a couple years ago (my bro-in-law and his sister are over 40!). His parents have never really accepted that his sister is a lesbian. He told them, "Well, you kind of have to think of it like this. That instead of 2 sons and a daughter, you have 3 sons. So stop buying her girly stuff. She likes leather jackets!" Of course not all lesbians are butch, but she is and they did end up buying her a leather jacket and she loved it.

    So yeah, you can probably tell that I opened up to the right people in my family. Despite knowing that they were the safest people to talk with, I was still hesitant because I had NEVER TOLD ANYONE. My family and I have always been religious, so there was a lot of just internal turmoil about the whole thing... still is. But last week just everything was perfect. Plus it was my birthday. So I thought, Don't let this perfect moment pass.

    And I did it. And it was awesome.

    Now it's normalized. But I'm guessing a few waves are coming up as I come out to more and more people. I'm hoping to come out to a lot (not all) of my friends by Coming Out Day, which is coming up soon. Crap.

    In any case, just want to say, there's always light at the end of the tunnel, no matter how dark it seems. Yeah... cliches. But they work damn it!
     
  16. Dragonbait

    Dragonbait Guest

    OK, first, so I don't get distracted and forget, I LOVE the quote in your sig. Dr. Seuss (the original) is one of my heroes!

    Now, onto your actual comment that had me so flipped out I almost didn't notice your great sig. REALLY?! Do you actually think that? Cause if that's the case then I'll go from being hurt to being pissed so fast he'll have whiplash! I never even considered that, from either perspective - him telling me to get a divorce already (for years) nor his complete dismissal of my revelation.

    But now that you mention it. Grrr! You know, he was always hitting on me, times when we would be traveling together he would always try to talk me into staying in his room, whenever we'd drink together he'd always try to convince me to go home with him, but I always just told myself that he was a horn-dog who would hit on every woman given more than 30 seconds alone, that he never really expected me to acquiesce, I would laugh him off, peel him off and send him on his way. Like it was Fred's little ritual song and dance, but that he never actually meant anything by it, because we were buds.

    Hell, half the time I was his wingman. I'd help him in his lame attempts to pick up pretty young women. You don't think he could possibly? Oh yeah. If that's the case, I'm going to be seriously pissed!

    ---------- Post added 28th Sep 2013 at 11:38 PM ----------

    Woohoo! I am so happy for you, and do really appreciate you sharing that story here. Especially after reading awesome yoda's post (not his fault) I really needed to hear a happy story.

    You did it! And it was awesome! Good for you! So now I have to post the happy dancers for you, to celebrate your grand success - AND your birthday!!! :music::thewave:frowning2:!!):birthday:(!)

    There, it's a whole happy smilie banana party, all in your honor.
    Thanks, that cheered me up a bit.

    So obviously, the user name and quote in my sig go hand in hand. It's from a book. More on that in another venue. But congrats again, and good luck with the rest. Wishing you many more experiences like your first.
     
  17. HopeFloats

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    I totally think his reaction is related to his history of hitting on you.

    And I loved reading this whole thread. EC is so great. Thanks for being here y'all.
     
  18. oddlife35

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    Really glad that my little tid bit of life made you happy. Let's see if we can keep making more stories like it. Love the dancing bananas!
     
  19. Lindsey23

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    Oh he totally liked you! That explains it. I've been reading this whole thread and thought his reaction was so insensitive. Your next coming out experience should be better, don't dwell on on this one. (*hug*)
     
  20. Dragonbait

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    Oh man. Between Yoda, Hope & Lindsey? You're killing me. I really thought he only did it because he was confident that I would NOT take him up on it. That's just too sleazy. I would never have stayed friends with him if I thought that was the case. Damn.

    Well, it is what it is. He did not respond well, and I'll be damned if I'm going to waste the energy to track him down for an explanation. If he ever bothers to reach out to me again (in the figurative sense, I mean - if he did it in the literal sense right now I think he'd lose a hand!) I'll ask, but at this point, I feel like it's on him.

    Especially after you all planted those seeds in my head. Ugh. Where's the brain bleach?!
     
    #20 Dragonbait, Oct 1, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2013