Dodging Lightening Bolts

It's not your need to find God that is what's happening, it would appear He's looking for you! (He's been asking around as to your whereabouts, I told Him you're probably in sunny California, wine country...we Jews just have a more direct connection, sort of like the Skype of the ancient world).

The way to faith for many is through awe, through an appreciation of the beauty and complexity of life, which leads to the question as to how to live that life. Hence "The Way" in life, whether that means the Catholic canon, the Torah or the Tao, they all mean the same thing, an attempt to give life a powerful meaning and direction.

Religion has a lot to answer for, many missteps. I think we live in a time of bad religion and bad philosophy, so, it's important to go back to the source of it, to the timeless questions: what is this whole damned thing called existence about?

I don't think it's a coincidence, your coming out, and now this. You are experiencing intense emotions, an emptying of illusions, so feel it, and if God is the way to The Way, then so be it!

 

DB, I do love the way you post.

Yes, theologically, yes even us gay people. You know my credentials, and my confession is this, in the life of Christ (sorry GW, got to get New Testamenty here) , God communes with us physically. Viscerally. He is familiar with the ups and the downs, the hungers and thirsts, the joy and the pain. Beauty and evil. The full spectrum of human experience.

I do agree with GW that religion, though I will amend it to be institutionalized post Constantinian Christianity in particular, has become a mode of societal moral mongering. We have forgotten that this is first and foremost about family. Am I surprise that He came looking for you, not at all, that is His style. I am glad your attention has been caught.

If the scripture, both old and new, has much to teach us it is this; people tend to do sh*tty things to one another. We violate boundaries all the time. How many times was Israel in trouble for trampling the poor and oppressed? How many times has the church done similar things? In all of this God does not forsake, but rather, approaches again and again. When He could not get our attention through the prophets we got His son. Didn't end well.

Let me tell you something I am confident of, if we were to have Jesus in our time, it would be at our houses that He would dine. So yes, God does not abandon, that is our move. That is our work, His is to seek, find and fulfill.

I wish you well on this quest. I know it brings many questions that are not easy to answer. Many points of tension that would be easier to ignore. As always, we are here, I am here, to support how I may. I know I just dumped a small pastoral lecture on you, but what else would you expect from me anyway? :icon_bigg

Take it in your own style. I get that too, my wife is always frustratingly telling me that life doesn't have to be just a question of one extreme or another, to which I say, YES IT DOES!

_____
And if Christianity does not end being the place to find a sense of spirituality, that is OK too. I can only answer from what I know and what I am working through.

 

Dragonbait,

Love it. Don't worry, there are no lightning bolts coming. At least not in my view.
As my name implies, spirituality is very important to me. I have been on my own spiritual journey since the first time I said "I am gay" outloud - which was - wow, 17 years ago. (Just put those two things together just now, by the way, but they did coincide for me as well.)

Anyway, I agree with palpamist, that if Jesus lived in our time, he would be hanging with us. I am a lucky girl, because in my church, it is perfectly acceptable to be gay, so there was not a hurdle to jump as far as that goes. Obviously, the path I have chosen is not one of traditional religion, but it fits for me. I don't want to get too much into "my" thing, because I don't think that's important here, just want to say to you- if you keep seeking, you WILL find what you are looking for. I have been at my current church for about 3 years so it took me 14 years to get to the actual building, but have been on the same path for most of this time.
I am excited for you!

 

The Lightning strike... is you.

You will be standing tall and bright and beautiful.

The world around you loves you and you are the change in your life. Everything else you can embrace and treasure

 

Really quick note to share a couple thoughts m'Lady.

To my eye, your language here would seem to betray you. When you express thoughts about an anti-LGBT god, you are not making a statement about any god...you are making a statement about religion...the religion you *say* you've abandoned. The actual text behind that religion is of a god who loves and embraces all...the religion interprets that into the concerns you express here. So if you really wish to abandon that religion (and thereby forge a relationship with god? *smile*), it would seem you still have some work to do!

But you've begun, it would seem. You also talk about the universe sending you messages...that language suggests that regardless of what you might *want* to believe, you actually do believe in some kind of divine/universal presence. The atheist's universe is scientific...it doesn't send messages...it spins according to the laws of physics. If the universe is speaking to you, that's a good sign...listen to it.

Listen also to the deepest insides of your heart. I suspect that's where your whole sexuality exploration originated...and that's also supposed to be where we hear god speaking to us.

---------- Post added 3rd Nov 2013 at 09:42 AM ----------

But fear no lightning bolt. The universe doesn't punish...it just shows. *hugs*

 

PARTIAL QUOTE:
As some of you may have picked up on within a thread or two (didn't start my own on the topic, but mentioned it in others) I had my first face to face 'coming out' experience a week ago today. Immediately after I suffered an incredible emotional release. Sobbed myself empty for hours that night, walked around shell-shocked for days, then reached a stage where a dear friend suggested I ask my doctors for meds - he was concerned over my obvious depression. And in the midst of this, I was being bombarded by - let's call them signs - from real-life friends, virtual friends, RSS feeds, radio waves... you name it, it was coming at me. Go back to God, rekindle faith, BELIEVE! It's reached the point that I'm just awaiting the lightening strike. {{cringe}}

Seemed kind of backwards to me, I announce, for the very first time out loud and in my own voice, that I'm gay, and the message the universe sends me as a way to accept/embrace this facet of myself is "Find God"? But truly, messages from EC friends (who shall remain nameless), emails from NJ friends, articles about Priests and Pastors supporting marriage equality, even the damned radio perpetually set to alternative rock stations, playing songs like, "Tell Me All Your Thoughts on God" and "If God Were One of Us"! God? One of US? Us who? Us gay people?!

Isn't it supposed to be just the opposite? UNQUOTE

In the majority of traditional religions, yes, exactly. In the Old Testiment days homosexuality was a bad thing for religions because they wanted to increase their numbers, or replenise the population after wars, or plague or famine. In the olden days, farming and building and wars were very labor intensive. There were more people lost in one ancient battle in 3 hrs then in the entire Vietnam and Iraq wars combined.
Also, most people's life spans were almost half of what they are now. And you can't get the numbers up by accepting gays or lesbians. Men having multiple wives or concubines? Just fine back then, as long as you provide for them, more babies. (Actually still is fine in some parts of the world. )
You need to have only hetrosexual sex and push out those new members of a religion, or a country. A lot of what most organized religions teach are those things that benefit the organization.

What you said about your coming out experience was very similar to mine at first, mostly due to the reaction of my family. It was made even worse the next time I saw them. I thought that time would've softened my mothers heart, that even if she couldn't forgive me she could at least deal with it somehow, even if by internal denial, just to be civil to me, but that didn't happen. I had my hands full with Christmas presents, when she opened the door,
she almost slammed the door in my face. I went back to the car, tried to call my dad on my cellphone, and when she saw the caller ID picked up the phone and put it back down. I then called my brother, who was expecting me, and got through to him. I was crying and shaking and apoligized to him, that I couldn't see him. He said wait, don't leave, and told my father what happened before he came outside to help me with the presents.
My father was furious with my mother, who when confronted, calmly said, "Sorry, I didn't recognize her, and said she know I was coming over. My father told her that she comes over every Christmas, and she replied, "I just didn't think she'd want to celebrate a religious holiday, since she doesn't believe in God." I told her I never said that, and she replied if I truly believed in God and Christ, I would get on my knees and beg for forgiveness for my sins and repent for my wicked lifestyle. The crazy thing is, she isn't normally like this, being ultra religious, not when I was growing up. It never showed up until I came out.
Later on that day, when she saw me sitting on the floor interacting with my 3 yr old niece ( I don't want kids of my own, but like kids in general) while my sister and mom were in tthe kitchen (no way mom was ever going to let ME help her again in the kitchen) her eyes got wide and she walked over, scopped my niece up and walked back into the kitchen. I thought I was helping. My sister came out holding my niece, and put her back down on the floor. I asked what happened, and she wouldn't tell me at first, don't me don't worry bout it, but I stupidly pressed her on it. She then said, "Mom told me you were playing with
----- and I said, so? and she said, SO? back like I was supposed to know what the problem was. She then said, "you do know she's sexually attracted to girls, right?" (like my sister would forget my moms reaction when I came out a month earlier)
My sister said that I was attracted to ADULT women, not little kids, and she replied, how do you know? If she has one perversion, who knows what shes into." I've never had suicidal thoughts, but at the time I thought that if God did hit me with a lightning bolt, he would've been doing me a favor. Hell would've been better to me than having unwanted sex with someone, having my body used as a grandbaby machine.

Anyway, sorry for venting. My point was that although I went through hell at the time, it got better, not because I repented or my parents finally forgave me or anything. It was because a weight had been lifted off of me, and also because of the love and support of my partner, and the non judgemental support of my brother, and my friends, most gay and lesbian, but some straight ones too. If God exists he wouldn't make you or me the way we are just to throw lightning bolts at us.

 

My one major brush with things philosophical was a class I took in college. It was notable only for the fact that it made me realize how firmly my feet were planted on the ground (really, you can't see my ankles most of the time!), how ill suited my mind was for philosophical thought, and also for a paper I wrote that was good enough that the teacher (nasty, evil, gruff old Jesuit priest) gave me a C instead of an A because he was convinced I had plagiarized it (and I had most definitely NOT).

The paper was an analysis of some Aristotelian theory, cribbed by St. Augustine, on the nature of life as "essence" (i.e., matter) and "existence" (the "be-ing" that gives all the stuff its identity and presence and being). The theory as I remember it was that God was the great "existence" that bound all things together, and our souls were at once ours because they gave our matter its identity and life, and at the same time a part of the great total existence that was God. Normally I am as lost discussing philosophy as I would be with gas engines, sports and Hooters, but for some reason that resonated with me.

I would think that the further we bury our identity and our selves by denying our sexuality, or any other aspect of who we are, the more isolated we would become from other people, and the further removed we get from that great unifying existence that ties us all together. Now that you are getting more in touch with who you are and are accepting yourself, it makes total sense to me that you would start to feel more connections with people and, perhaps, with God, the great "existence", "The Force" (sorry, I was 15 when Star Wars came out), whatever you choose to call it. Makes total sense to me!

I, of course, am firmly entrenched in my childhood Catholicism, although your conservative glazed-eyed Catholics with 12 kids and a shrine to Mary in an old half-buried bathtub in the back yard would probably consider me to be hopelessly radical and destined for Hell (even before the whole gay thing bubbled to the surface). I won't look for you when I play the organ for the 7:30 Mass, or wait for you to change your user name to "Sister Mary Dragonbait". And having survived a REAL lightning bolt, I would advise you to avoid them! But connections are good, whether it be people or some kind of over-reaching existence that makes us part of things again.

 

Isn't life amazing? Isn't coming out the closet amazing?

For me, too, coming out of the closet opened up a million other things -- including my spirituality.

In this area there are a number of out clergy, I've connected with a few of them to talk about my spiritual journey (both personally and professionally, I am a seminary graduate who left that world in my mid-twenties).

I am actually pretty frustrated by the lack of gay christian support groups (that are acceptable to me, gcn, for instance, is IMO absurd, since its premise is celibacy - how does that honor an individual's sexuality?). I've been drawn to nehirim.org, which is Jewish - spiritual, educational, social. Perhaps there is something Christian based in your area (and I've love to hear about it, but I don't know of any national christian-gay organizations other than those that are professional/institutional).

All the best /Pete

 

I'm not surprised either. For me coming out is about living authentically, which allows me to connect with others. I believe that God is in all people and works through others. To me, the Christian trinity is a manifestation of the centrality of relationship and love. Righteousness means "right relationship" - we can be in right relationship with others and with god when we are living authentically. I'm sorry if this comes off like tautology. But I truly think it's connected. For me, too, practicing my spirituality/faith is key. Sometimes, in times of doubt perhaps, I'm actually more religious than spiritual. But my episcopal church supports me in those times. There is no faith without doubt. But the practices - generosity, being part of the community, caring for others, and sharing communion - help "reorient" me to what's important. My rector talks often about worship helping us reorient our priorities and our lives each week. Love and right relationship are what matter. I cannot do that by myself - it's in the relationships with other humans that I both see God and live out what Jesus instructed. Now that I'm coming out, I think I can be a better Christian - meaning only that I can be a better follower.