So, after a week of replies to my previous thread (regarding a work bromance) and reading a lot of other older guys stories about coming out I've realised a number of things: 1. I have been making this all about me, my needs and problems in my long term realtionship as an out 35 year old. These are separate to his issues as a closeted gay male. 2. While the 'hard to get' games I've played over the past twelve months have certainly made him chase me and got us to where we are now, they are not going to make him feel comfortable and secure enough to come out. I now need to and have changed my tack. 3. Following on from this, the more positive, warm and open I am to him, the more he reciprocates and seems to thrive; this week he has been seemingly giddy with excitement the more I have praised and encouraged him for things that are just him. 4. I need to give up on any hope of the two of being together any time soon. This is a marathon not a sprint and, even if he did confess to having feelings for me, the fall out involved in being married, having children and property makes that a very complicated prospect. Plus, as I realize from reading this forum, being gay and married are not necessarily mutually exclusive! So the question I now have is how else can I make it easy for him to come out if that's the path he is on? How can I reassure him everything will be okay and that he can trust me? Also did other people here find themselves latching on to openly gay people in the run up to coming out? Thanks again to everyone who offered such insightful advise before
Ummm... You are projecting your wants onto him. He can only come out at his own pace. If you rush him via praise or pushing you are taking his control away. That is not to say YOU cannot be honest. If you said "Jxxx over the past twelve months I have grown very fond of you. I am sure you can tell. It is awkward for me having a partner myself, and possibly awkward for you too being married with kids. I am sorry if my obvious feelings for you cause you any distress. I don't want to do that". You can "out" yourself all you want but he needs to grow at his own pace. If the above statement is difficult for you to make imagine his difficulty if your assumptions are true. Now... What can I do to make it easier for you to tell him? See? It doesn't work. You have to do it in your own time and in your own way. Same goes for him. He may never be ready. Hope this helps. Tom
Be a good listener. Be fully aware that others may NOT have our self-awareness. Hell- *MY* self-awareness misfires a lot on many levels. All we can do is be mindful of how loaded these scenes are for all involved. Don't push or pull and above all else-By what you say and do not say- let THEM know THEY have self-ownership and no one can challenge that... Means- you will be there for them if they ask for help -just don't be creepy in offering it unsolicited.
My experience may help here. I agree, however, that he has to do this at his speed as there's no way to drag him out. And, doing so could be catastrophic. I was the married guy who had a brief bromance. So this is one married guy's side of this equation. Once I realized how much I cared about the guy, I came out to my wife. If he at any time had said to me what Skiff suggested, my heart would have sung and possibly exploded. For me, I was dying to come out and that little pep talk probably would have done wonders. I'd just say to tread carefully; he's in a very delicate situation. He has a lot to lose. As I did. I lost everything. Financially that is, relationship-wise we're all pretty good. Unfortunately he and I are not together, but that's a different story.
I would have killed to have someone like you in my corner while I was struggling with whether to come out to my wife. Aside from a therapist, I had no one to confide in. I'm not saying it's your job to pull him out, but just let him know you're there for him and you care, which it sounds like he already does.
Why do you want him to come out? I apologize in advance, but from here it looks like you are trying to coherce him not only into coming out, but also into admitting feelings for you. To what end, though? Just so you can tell him you have a partner already? That seems very egotistical. If you want to keep going with this bromance thing, have at it, but don't push him into coming out, you have no right to do that. Don't mess with this guy's head. You are showing no indication of wanting to put an end to your own relationship, why are you trying to ruin his? :eusa_naug
Thanks for all the feedback - it's really really helpful. The reason I posted on this forum is that the situation I am in feels like it has gone on way too long and I am struggling to make sense of his behaviour. Although we had known each other for a long term as colleagues and casual friends, our relationship has developed over the past twelve month since he started effectively 'wooing' me - endless thoughtful kind gestures, intense texting, turning up everywhere, confiding lots of personal stuff and supporting in any way he could - basically turning himself into the best platonic boyfriend I could hope to have. Obviously this has caused a lot of issues in my long term relationship, the existence of which he is fully aware as I am of his wife. For obvious reasons (but which we do not discuss) we keep these parts of our life very separate. The reason I want to force the issue is that i cannot go on living this double life - having an emotional affair and continuing in a long term relationship that has a lot of challenges due to my partners mental health issues. Obviously I entertain fantasies where my colleague and I are 'together' all the time, like we are when we're at work. However, I am well aware that if this situation is complicated for me then it's even more so for him. If I am honest I feel a bit resentful of his marching into my relatively functional open gay life and playing with my emotions as some kind of experiment. The fact that I have let this go on so long is obviously because he has come to mean a lot to me, but also because I am trying to be understanding of a complicated situation. In short I am probably gathering strength to remove myself from an intoxicating and toxic situation for the sake of my own sanity. I am certainly not trying to out him for a sinister reason like the gratification of my own ego! I care very deeply and would love us to be together.
Hi, No, I see no sinister motivation in what you describe but keep in mind projecting can be benign. Emotional affair is a good description. There is no reason you cannot discuss your feelings with him that you feel you have have entered into an emotional affair with him and it is confusing the heck out of you. At which point he can; a) discuss it, b) ignore it, c) run like a scared rabbit. Have you discussed this with your partner? I know you have stated relationship issues and mental health issues but it is something to consider. Keep in mind you could lose both partner and bromance and treading carefully (as you have) must be continued. You need to be careful. Tom
Hi I am in a similar situation. I am now separated from my wife because I had been completely struck off my feet by a 27 year old neighbor. This made me realize that I am gay and now want to leave the closet. Our relationship is probably best described as a very intense emotional affair. I am also sexually attracted to him, but he denies any sexual feelings towards me although, for the past two years, we couldn't get enough of each other's company. He is out to me but, due to religious reasons uncomfortable with his sexual orientation. I have tried to support him in this regard for the past 18months which made him accept that he will have to come out at some point. I have moved out of the house into an apartment but he feels uncomfortable to visit me here. I agreed to give him some space but he still texts me daily, and for the first time in his life let me know "that he is missing his "best friend ever". The first tender emotion in words from him since we've met. He is coming for a visit to my apartment and I am excited but scared. Does anyone know what the survival rate for gay exit relationships are? PS I moved out of the house to get away from him and my wife and hoped to sort myself out. I started accepting that our friendship/relationship is over. However, when explaining this to my therapist, he was sceptical and advised me to not avoid "my friend". According to him, my friend does definitely love me, but is probably not ready to come out. He does believe that he will come out soon. Please let me know your knowledge on this
I think the issue here is encapsulated in your use of the phrase 'can't enough of each other'. This it would seem if what differentiates these bromances/emotional affairs with supposedly straight guys from other platonic relationships. And i have very mixed feelings about it. On the one hand they seem powerless to resist the urge to connect emotionally with a guy; and yet they don't have the guts to acknowledge the implications of their behaviour. The longer i pursue this thread, the move I am veering towards the idea that closeted guys really are a lost cause until they're ready to be brave. I am intrigued to hear from someone who has been married and conscious of the hurt they're inflicting on the poor gay guy whom they've selected as the object of their experimentation. I have not yet heard any stories about long-lasting exit affairs, although my research more generally into affairs would seem to suggest that those relationships that begin as emotional affairs as opposed to physical ones have a far higher instance of turning into relationship that last. Ultimately I think if you're accepting of situation where you're emotionally dependent on someone who is married, in the closet or in another long-term relationship you're destined only to live on a starvation diet of crumbs and left-overs, which is never going to be enough to sustain anyone. The complex and delicate grammar of those closeted emotional affairs really is fascinating: the use of code words, phrases and social ritual to communicate love and affection hark back to an era when homosexuality was illegal and understandably confused the hell out of the more 'out' partner. The point it would seem, as you councilor seemed to imply: actions speak louder than words. If someone 'can't get enough of you' then it seems safe to say they have feelings. Whether or not he will ever have the courage and indeed insight to act upon those is another matter.
Hi, is this any different than an alcoholic or any self destructive behaviour? They have to hit rock bottom before they find the courage to act. Dr Joe Kort talks about the this emotional transference into the wrong ("available"?) person as a coping mechanism. They are not deliberately destructive but seeking solace for themselves totally under the belief it is benign and mutually beneficial. Mothers sometimes do this to their sons. It is not unique to the gay world. I know I have done it with dogs, investing my emotional courage currency into the dog which I should have invested into a good man. That bit of hindsight is disturbing. I currently know a young man (mid30's) who I assume is questioning. Other gay men say "definitely closeted gay" and they ask me to talk to him about it, pressure him out with whatever he is hiding. I say "no, in his own time in his own way". Anything else is futile. Tom
Hi Skiff, Once again you're insight into these situations is brilliant! I guess what you're basically saying is that by being complicit and well-behaved in this emotional affair I am propping up his marriage and the delusion that he is straight. In this sense I am doing neither of us any good by letting the status quo continue: I am in a state of emotional agony that is ruining the life 'out' life I have built, while he is just using me as pain relief so that he can continue to service his marriage. The question for me is how do I find the strength to exit the bromance; particularly without causing major upset and comment amongst my colleagues. To an extent that question is rhetorical, as I can sense that with every post and reply on this forum I acquire a little bit more metal, determination and clarity. Also, reading all the other - sometimes quite sad - posts here from men who have been married and lived half their lives in the closet, has made me re-evaluate what my long-term partner and I have together. For all it's imperfections I feel like I should be very grateful to have a relationship that has taken me from 18 to 35!
Etienne I think you may be too harsh in your judgement of the guy you fell in love with. You both seem to have something special, so try not to judge. I doubt if he is just using you. He is also in an impossible situation. Imagine how your feelings/ situation will change if he does get out of the closet. Do you think that it will solve your predicament? I am interested to know if you have discussed the fact that the situation leaves both of you vulnerable with him, and how did he react? Wishing you progress in your situation in the not too distant future. Regards
Hi, I don't think either of you are consciously or deliberately "using" each other. I believe you both are seeking pain relief through the other and not addressing the underlying problems in your lives. You need to deal with your relationship with your partner and he has to wrestle his sexuality. Both of you should read "10 Smart Things Gay Men Can Do To Improve Their Lives". God man you have half your life invested with your partner, don't be blind, seek couples therapy. This guy only offers you risk and pain. Do't trade your cow for magic beans. Tom
What skiff said; you could bring up that you have feelings for them, but be prepared for them to ignore it or run and blame you for feeling that way. Also skiff brought up another good point, "they need to do it in there own time and own way" so with that I would almost be giving them some space, I don't think this bromance is good for you and not good for them until they figure themselves out. I am sure some guys you could lay down a few facts and just ignore you. All I can suggest is tread carefully, as it could end up messy for everyone, that is not to say things might turn out good in the end so don't give up hope.
Skiff / Tom said it all right here: "I don't think either of you are consciously or deliberately "using" each other. I believe you both are seeking pain relief through the other and not addressing the underlying problems in your lives. You need to deal with your relationship with your partner and he has to wrestle his sexuality."
Inspired by Spaceman and Runnerrunner, i decided to be a bit braver this week in how i communicated and acted around my married straight friend. The growth in confidence actually happened because I had my mind made-up that I'd tone things down and pull away a for bit.... HOWEVER, obviously detecting a certain "coolness" from me on Monday, my friend went into over-drive to woo me back: initiating loads of texting, making lots of super sweet little gestures and contriving to take me out for an intimate drink on my own on two different occasions. This latter activity represents a MAJOR break-through in his confidence with me and so I didn't want to spoil it by using it to have "the conversation"... Instead (like all wimps) I have been braver with my texting: I've thanked him for always being "amazing" and "never boring", concluded a text with a kiss and told him he is totally unique. I topped this off last night with the declaration that spending time with him is "always in colour" and that "all is else is like black an white". In response he has said he feels the same about me/that is reciprocated etc etc without actually making an affirmative statement. The question is could this bromance get more intense?.... TBC
Ok he is being braver with his feelings, are you being braver and talking to your partner? You cannot have it both ways, can you? Then comes the complications... Your partner calls his wife or vice versa, sh@t hits the fan, his newfound courage withers (newly out warble) and you both lose everything. It happens. You are moving out of emotional affair and all balls are in the air (so to speak). Tom
