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Real-life logistics of coming out in marriage with kids...

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by GayDadStr8Marig, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. GayDadStr8Marig

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    Want to throw this out there for the other parents who've been through coming-out as gay while married to a straight spouse. I've been debating with myself about not so much how to come out but how to plan for the logstics if things go really badly and I'm not welcome in our home any longer... whether that were to happen immediately as part of the coming out conversation, or later on as would likely occur anyway.

    Some of the things I've tried to consider are:
    • access to children -- joint custody, visitation, limited rights...
    • education for kids -- stay in same district or? ... what about college?
    • activities for and with kids -- they should be able to stay in their afterschool activities, but can I still transport them if I have to live separately?
    • finances -- paying off debts, saving for college... we have similar incomes, what about support/maintenance for kids and households?
    • home -- does she want to keep the house or move? can I afford my own place and pay child support if i dont have joint custody? if I live closer to work, can I afford to keep travelling for the daily after-school activities?
    • who keeps the dog? -- I'm primarily responsible for her, but she's elderly and may have trouble adjusting... should the kids lose their dad and their dog, that seems especially cruel?
    • retirement -- depressing, so far away and yet not enough time left to save as much as we'd like...
    • in-laws -- I came out to my family when I was 18, but eventually my in-laws will have to find out.

    Anything else I haven't thought about that others have run into?
     
  2. Pete1970

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    We are just starting this process and havent nailed down all the specifics yet

    our kids will be 17 and 14 soon. We are hoping to work it out so that we can keep the house until they are out of high school (4 years) then sell it.

    since money will be tight for a while i will probably only be able to get a 1 bedroom apt so they will live primarily in the house, but we will have joint custody

    college and retirement savings is pretty much nonexistant anyway so that wouldnt be affected

    the dogs are hers so she will keep them.

    inlaws - dont have to worry about because they are both deceased
     
  3. BlueSky224

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    This may sound trivial but it's not.

    How are you going to look out for yourself? You've done an admirable job of thinking through what your kids will need, what your wife will need, but I think you should establish a game plan for yourself.

    Part of your logistics should include:
    1. Who will support you emotionally through all of this? Of course you have all of us here, but do you have friends? A therapist? A primary care provider? In case you do get depressed or anxious, do you have someplace to seek professional help. It's going to be a stressful time.

    2. Ensure that part of your logistics include some form of a social life, no matter how small. You're going to need to get out of the house. This might mean coming out to a buddy or other friends so that you can escape a little bit.

    Let us know how we can help you.
     
  4. Pete1970

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    Bluesky is right,

    I joined 2 meetup groups so far, 1 hasnt met yet but the other has several times.
    It was nice to just get out of the house on my own and talk to people in the same situation. Although this group i go to is primarily a discussion group, it is kind of fun to get out. Ive spent so many years basically just hanging out at home and doing stuff with the kids, i dont even really know what activities i like to do anymore., but i am surely going to rediscover that.
     
  5. GayDadStr8Marig

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    well that pretty much sums up my existence! :icon_redf

    @BlueSky: for my own support I have one good friend I've come out to at work, but she will be retiring in a couple years at most. I don't really have any other friends. I see other parents at school and the kids activities, but its just passing acquaintences. Life is such a over-scheduled mess I don't have time to take care of myself (doctor ordered me lose 20# this year, now have to find time to get in exercise...?) I could try a gym membership again (been 15 yrs since last time and that didn't last long, back in college a good friend mentored my workouts long enough to get me addicted to the routine, so I pulled myself together physically after eating my way back into the closet.)

    I don't have an official therapist at present. A friend is working on certifications for counseling and we talk when we can get mutually available time for a phonecall or rarer un-person talks. Ever since I moved from Florida when I was 22 going on 23 I haven't really had a social life outside of whatever my wife has planned. PW, I know. :icon_redf

    ...and as far as retirement goes, there's not much here either, as we've chipped away on occasion to make some huge dents in debt, so there's the possibility we can use 401k loans to get rid of the leftover debt besides the house should the need arise. Although we are still making progress each month, so we may be in better shape by the time I grow a pair and stand on my own feet and can be proud of myself.

    We definitely have to bite the bullet with some house maintenance this year, regardless. I reconciled myself that is something I can't invest energy in stressing over. If we end up having to sell, these repairs will help us a lot, if not we have a few less things to worry about down the line.

    Otherwise, besides trying to find time for exercise, I need to find time to find friends and support locally. Since I'm never gone except for taking the kids places, if I suddenly start heading off in the evenings, that's a red flag, so I have to be prepared to come clean as part of getting local support. I'm a bit surprised my online support activity hasn't raised her interest yet as I exile myself to the basement den to catch up in the evening, or use my smartphone in bed, not like there's anything else going on in bed for 9 years.... but that's implied by everything else in this mess I guess.
     
  6. Choirboy

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    Regarding the exercise, you might want to just try brisk walks after the kids are in bed. I got "the talk" from my doctor nearly 2 years ago and his suggestion was to start with walking, and since we had an energetic puppy who was driving us nuts with her hyperness, it seemed like a logical thing to do anyhow. That and avoiding the food cube at work and just trying to control portions a bit (nothing very drastic) did the trick. I was shocked at how well it worked and was able to lose 100 lbs. in the space of a little over a year. I also found that the time walking (I generally go 3 miles, around 45 minutes) is a great stress reliever and gives me some time inside my own head. A lot of us here seem to be very devoted and caring parents, which is a great thing, but it can suck the life out of you sometimes.

    The lack of a social life outside of wife and kids has been a real challenge. When I decided to start the ball rolling, I realized somewhat sadly that outside of a few friends at work, there weren't many people for me to even bother coming out to. I told a cousin that I'm close to, but haven't bothered with my brother and sisters yet. It's not that I expect bad reactions (well, maybe from my brother), it's just that they live so far away that it wouldn't really matter. I know a lot of people--I've lived in the same small town for most of the last 40 years--but don't do much socializing and have very few close friends. Makes it easier in some ways, but it also means that I'm not going to be starting at square 1, but more like square -5 or so. I have found that there's a gay Catholic group at a church not far away that meets once a month and I figure that's where I'll start. Those red flags are all over the place though, even though I have already told my wife I'm gay. Hell, I needed new underwear and decided to go with colored briefs instead of white, and she immediately started in with suspicions comments about whether I had "found someone already". She's sure I will find a husband within weeks, apparently, and all I'd really like at this point is to have a few friends to hang out and be myself with, and not get the third degree for it.

    Money - meh, we're a mess. Gymnastics and piano lessons and debts--you know the drill. I'm slowly figuring it out. The further into this journey you get, though, the more motivation you will feel to do what's necessary to improve your life, because you'll have a REASON to do it, finally. I already feel much different than I did last summer when I first thought I should come clean to my wife, and found myself trying to figure out how the hell to go about it. It does get easier.
     
  7. CameronBayArea

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    GDSM - I don't know your story so my comment may not be appropriate for your situation. If I'm speaking out of turn, please accept my apologies in advance.

    While I understand why you'd want to think about future logistics, the reality is that they'll mostly take of themselves. That's not to say that getting everything sorted will be fast, easy or pain-free, but rather that day-to-day events will dictate when and how you handle each of those things. Even in a fast divorce you'll have time to consider your options.

    A more immediate concern to me is your worry that things might go badly when you come out.

    Yes, things *could* go badly. With that in mind, if you want to plan for something vitally important, it should be for how to come out to your wife yet still maintain a positive relationship with her. THAT is of paramount importance, both now and for many years to come.

    I'd encourage you to think about your own coming-out journey. If you were forcefully ejected from the closet the very first moment you realized you were gay, would you be traumatized? Would you be bitter or resentful?

    You've likely had years to understand your sexuality and how being honest about it might impact your life. In order for your wife to be understanding, she will need to take her own progressive journey. If you deny her that opportunity by dropping two bombshells in a row ("I'm gay." "I want a divorce."), it's very likely that she'll be pissed at you for the rest of her life.

    My advice is to take things slow and begin by accepting responsibility for some of the key problems in your marriage. For example, if your sex life hasn't been good, tell her that you had a pivotal conversation with a friend and you've realized that you're afraid to have too much sexual intimacy with her. That news will be startling and it will prompt a lot of questions, but it will begin a non-confrontational dialogue with her. Your goal for that first conversation might be an agreement for you to start seeing a therapist. Then, once you start seeing the therapist, when your wife asks you how it's going, you can drop another hint. Maybe you say that you've uncovered some issues from early adolescence and you're not ready to talk to her about them yet. After a few more sessions maybe you can say that you've been in denial for many years but in therapy you've come to realize that you crave an intimate, emotional connection with another man.

    As you gradually bring your wife up to speed, up to the place where you are now, she will almost certainly come to the same conclusion you have, and for similar reasons. Straight women don't want to be married to gay men.

    Yes, it's a slow process that requires patience. But it's the right and kind thing to do.

    Most importantly, it empowers your wife to decide her own future. If SHE decides she doesn't want to be married to a gay man, the responsibility for that decision will be on her, not you. She'll be very sad, and you'll be very sad, but you'll both know in your hearts that you're meant to be friends and not partners.

    Again, please pardon this advice if it doesn't apply to your situation.
     
  8. skiff

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    Hi,

    What about the unexpected? That is what caught me.

    Like you I left all assets with family for kids sake and moved back to my home state living with family till I got a job and was on my feet. Family have asked me to move out. While living with them I was not allowed to have friends drop by (us gays are sick people). I got a job but it fell through and I am job hunting again. So have to find a roof with no job, in this economy.

    So the bast laid plans... Sh*t happens.

    Tom
     
  9. GayDadStr8Marig

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    Thanks for the good things to keep in mind everyone.

    @CameronBayArea, no you're not totally off-base... my situation is a bit weird since I came out a long time ago and promptly crawled back in to keep (false) peace with my parents and out my own selfish insecurities... imagine that, selfish and insecure at 18, who would have thought? ;-)

    I'm working on a series of blog posts about my story, so anyone can read it to get a better idea of the frame of mind I am approaching life at this point. It's more of an exercise for myself to confront head-on the decisions I've made in the past and their impact on me and my family now and in the future. If that being out there for the world to see helps someone else debating about whether to conform to their family, or to try to make themselves safe by hiding in the closet, so they can see the real-life impact your decisions have not just on yourself but the people around you... well, then, all the better I guess.

    As for the sex life, that was never all that important to her, and I was only able to get into it enough in the first half of our marriage as part of keeping up appearances and fulfilling "husbandly duties" to become a father. My mind was in places entirely different than a straight husband would be at those times. After having two kids, there was no interest in continuing that aspect by either of us.

    Further, Cameron, it's actually the complete opposite of how I want to bring this up someday... I don't want a divorce at this point. I made a commitment to my wife and have responsibilities as a father that are best if I'm in the same household. I would love to think we can take time to deal with this together while the kids are going through school, then see how we are progressing and how the kids are developing into adults. It's in both of our interests and the kids for us to work on this together as a family. I've punished myself enough for everyone involved; no need to drag the rest of the family into conflict just so I can get my rocks off and still feel bad about myself the next day.

    Just because I'm attracted to men, doesn't necessarily mean that I'm destined to find a man to be with; does that make any sense? Sure, I hope someday to meet someone and he will complete me and complement me and I'll do the same for him and all that... but I need to get out of my closet and my shell to gain some confidence about who I am. There were plenty of times I could have gone for casual hookups over the years, both before and after marriage (before kids), but I couldn't let myself do that because it's just not who I am; to me the relationship is more important than the sex... but sex is important too, it just doesn't cut it as the bedrock of the relationship.
     
  10. Choirboy

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    Totally understand and respect where you're coming from here. I feel personally like going for it all at once may leave me with nothing in the end, whereas going step by step is more realistic and will allow for a more logical and sustainable positive change. I will say that there are days when it's a lot harder than others, but at least for me, it's the route that I know will bring me the most happiness and peace in the long run. You have to approach this the way that's best for you (and those around you, if they matter enough to you).
     
  11. oldpulteney

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    I have been wandering around this site reading posts and trying to figure out my own situation but since there is mention of weight loss and exercise here, I feel like I am in a position to offer some advice. I have some experience in working with groups of people who are trying to get healthier. One of the interventions that's shown some good results is activity trackers/pedometers/fitness bands. Most of the people in the group who have one are progressively getting more active. I personally used one for about 5 weeks and just by keeping track of my daily activity and a little portion control I managed to lose 6 lbs. The reason why fitness bands work well for most people is that they "gamify" the whole process by giving you badges and incentives which work well to motivate. I would suggest getting one and also using a fitness app like "myfitnesspal" or "lose it". Some of the bands can even sync with the weight loss apps. If you need more info about it, let me know! Good luck!:slight_smile:
     
  12. Richie.

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    Well considering no one chose this, and it's not a choice... Primarily I would say the kids come first, and after your wife has been given enough time to accept the change you should both work together to make sure the kids are subject to as little change as possible!
     
  13. StillAround

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    No children here, but I'll comment anyway...

    If things go really badly and I'm not welcome in our home any longer... whether that were to happen immediately...

    I know you're in early stages of coming out, and things are pretty raw and icy in your home. But try to remember that it took two to tango all those years with your wife. She was miserable in your marriage, too, but she never confronted it either. And yes, you knew you were gay, but you married thinking you could make a go of it. It just didn't work. And you made your own sacrifices, too. You moved the family to WI to be near her family in a time of crisis. All this by way of saying that your statement above seems off to me. It's your home, too. You've agreed that your kids are the most important consideration. Having you move out is hardly in the best interests of your children, for reasons you've mentioned. So, unless you want to move out, I don't see why your wife should dictate those terms.

    access to children -- joint custody, visitation, limited rights...

    I don't know about divorce law in WI, but joint custody seems to me the way to go. Even if you move some distance away so that splitting time 50/50 isn't possible, there's no reason for your visitation to be limited in any way unless it interferes with your kids' activities. You love your kids, and you are clearly not a danger to them. So as long as they want to spend time with you, what's the issue?

    education for kids -- stay in same district or? ... what about college?

    College is a long way off, and if you're both earning roughly the same amount of money, school expenses ought to be split 50/50. This can all be part of mediation and the divorce settlement. As for school, it's always best to disrupt children's lives as little as possible, especially now that yours will have to deal with the reality that their parents are separating. But kids are resilient, and they make friends easily. The important thing for me would be that decision-making about the kids health, school, and other issues should be joint decisions in any settlement you come to. The worst outcome, I think, is for your (ex-)wife to make the decisions and leave you with the consequences. That's a position of 100% responsibility and 0% authority. And we all know how that works in business and government...

    activities for and with kids -- they should be able to stay in their afterschool activities, but can I still transport them if I have to live separately?

    In an ideal world, they should be able to stay in their after-school activities. Finances will, of course, be a consideration when you do finally leave your family home. But if you're living close enough that transporting them is possible, why wouldn't you be able to? See my earlier comment about custody. And as long as you're still living in your home, it shouldn't be an issue, right?

    finances -- paying off debts, saving for college... we have similar incomes, what about support/maintenance for kids and households?

    From a strictly legal standpoint, if you're earning equal incomes, spousal support shouldn't be the issue (granted, though, that I don't know about divorce law in WI. (Google and one informational session with a mediator should be able to answer your question.)

    Child support is a different issue. You're probably responsible for 50% of the expense of raising kids. Again, mediation is the key.

    home -- does she want to keep the house or move? can I afford my own place and pay child support if i don't have joint custody? if I live closer to work, can I afford to keep travelling for the daily after-school activities?

    Only you know the answers to the last two questions above. As for the first, the house is half yours. If selling your home is important financially in finding your way forward, then you have a say. Mediation is a negotiation. It's about compromise--give and take. If your home is important to her, that's a "take" for her. If the freedom from the financial responsibility and upkeep of your home is important to you, then what will she give in return?

    who keeps the dog? -- I'm primarily responsible for her, but she's elderly and may have trouble adjusting... should the kids lose their dad and their dog, that seems especially cruel?

    God, this one is so hard... But you're still in the home, right? And you will be for a while, right? Then one crisis at a time, buddy. By the time this would become an issue, it may no longer be an issue...

    retirement -- depressing, so far away and yet not enough time left to save as much as we'd like...

    You have a lot of good company on this one. But you still have time...

    in-laws -- I came out to my family when I was 18, but eventually my in-laws will have to find out.

    OK. So? You're out, right?

    Anything else I haven't thought about ...

    I have no idea, but try dealing with one worry at a time. First you and your wife need to tell your kids about the coming changes. Get past that first, deal with the fallout, and then move on to the next problem.

    And you're both really raw right now. In a week, or a month, you'll hopefully be able to have less emotional conversations about how to move forward.
     
  14. GayDadStr8Marig

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    Part 1 of 2 part Reply:

    Ed, thanks for reminding me about this topic I started a month ago. At the time, I had no idea when or if I could finally work up the courage to face up to my past and come clean with my wife. Well, as you know, that day finally came last Friday and while the outcome was not the worst case possible, it is still pretty bad.

    My wife is understandably hurt and angry and fearful about the future. I am as well, but that is irrelevant in her mind right now. I do not press that issue right now, but I have gently indicated that part of reality when communicating with her, both during our conversation when I came out and in the days since then.

    She decided almost immediately that we would have to divorce. Initially a month ago when I started this topic, I expected that I would want to work on our relationship before making that decision, but in the process of working up my strength to come out I found the strength to face the reality that there is no future between us apart from remaining on friendly terms for the kids. She has reiterated that is her position as well, so our current plan is to first deal with telling the kids that we will be living separately at some point in the future, maybe a year or more from now. We will do our best to reassure them that their lives will be impacted as little as possible, they're still going to the same school for the rest of this term and for next year, and they'll stay in their after-school activities. We are not planning to go into the reason for the divorce, only to assure them that this is an issue between mom and dad and is in now way about anything they did or did not do. We will also work to reassure them that both mom and dad will still be actively involved in their day-to-day lives.

    We have not determined yet how to deal with family time. My wife has expressed that right now it is very painful to her to do family activities together. We had some functions for the kids this past weekend that we attended as a family and she was upset because I was there. I did not know until this morning about that, so I assured her I was there for the kids, not to make her uncomfortable.

    We are working on a plan to deal with our debts and home repairs. We'll have to check on a home appraisal I think to get an idea of how much of the valuation would be impacted by those repairs either being done or undone compared to the cost of the repairs. Since it wouldn't be appropriate for them to share a bedroom, she wants us both to try to get 3 bedroom condo's or apartments. We'll have to evaluate what is available and what the cost would be compared to our existing mortgage and how much equity we retained in the home.

    I noticed over the weekend she had taken off her wedding rings, so I asked what she wanted to do with them, but also said they were a gift to her to do with as she wanted. If they can be sold I'd imagine she will do that to help pay down our debt and fund any required home repairs.

    We have a weekend trip at the end of April that's already paid for; we're thinking depending on how they react to the news of the divorce we should give them the choice of whether one or both of us takes them on the trip. I hope they want us all to go, but if they decide only one should go I hope for my wife's sake they choose her -- she's been hurt enough in this process already.

    Beyond that is first communion for our daughter in May. She plans to wait on telling her family we are divorcing until after that day. I told her she does not need to keep secrets on my behalf, only to consider whether they will be respectful of our decision for the kids to not know right now. She said they would not do anything like that, and besides there's never any contact without one of us there anyway, so it's likely irrelevant. She indicated this will mean I'm no longer included for holidays and such with her family, and that is OK since I'm no longer a part of the family. We'll still have time on holidays for me with the kids. Likewise, other relatives are not likely to have further contact with me which I hope is the case for a variety of reasons, although I will miss seeing my nephews growing up since they're the whole reason we moved to WI.

    ---------- Post added 10th Mar 2014 at 01:09 PM ----------

    Part 2 of a 2 part reply:

    I haven't decided yet what to do at work. Of course my best friend has known for months, but I have not come out to anyone else at work. I've only talked to one other co-worker about getting a divorce and evaded the why question by saying there were a variety of reasons. I suppose in time if I have a picture of a boyfriend up on my shelf, that's fairly self-explanatory, or if the question of dating arises and I'm seeing someone I won't play games about who it is -- this has to be the real deal or there was no point in going through this mess. That is further down the road though, and will be leaning quite a bit on my friends here and at support groups to heal from this experience for a while yet.

    I've also rescheduled my therapists so I'll meet with both again this week.

    My wife sent a text message to my sister to make sure she understood we were going to divorce and there would be no reconciling. My sister replied with a lie saying she thought my wife knew about me before we got married. Needless to say I was livid when I heard that from my wife. We both agreed early on in this discussion the kids will never visit my family again. My sister also said she will not tell dad "because that would kill him" so my wife asked if I plan to tell him; I said only if my phone rings with him on the line... in other words, probably never. My sister also mentioned to my wife that when I told my parents about this it nearly tore apart their relationship; I can't imagine how since mom stood by dad's side while I was verbally berated and humiliated by him, and then turned around herself and bemoaned how she worried what their friends would think of them. I will not waste my time with people who single-handedly set in motion a series of decisions that were destined to fail and have resulted in so many people being hurt... all because of their prejudice, fear and intolerance; along with my emotional unreadiness to deal with coming out to homophobic family.
     
  15. Jim1454

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    I think you've hit the primary issues. I've had a pretty good separation and live close to my ex wife. My husband has not been so lucky. How well you get along with your wife will dictate how easy this whole process might go.

    If your intention is to stay in the home, then most of this stuff isn't an issue. Only if you decide that it would be best for you to move out would you need to then contemplate all of this. Visitation, where you and your wife can live, how your assets and liabilities are split - all this would need to be negotiated and documented in a formal separation agreement.

    As for the dog - she comes with the kids in our case. My wife works just part time so it makes sense for the kids and the dog to spend most days with her. I have them all every other weekend. This has worked for us.

    ---------- Post added 10th Mar 2014 at 02:37 PM ----------

    Ooops - you were posting your update the same time I was writing.

    When my wife and I separated - and it was her decision, not mine - we needed to sell our house. Neither of us could afford to keep it on our own. And my wife was clear in saying that she didn't want to stay in the house if it meant I had to live in poverty - because the kids would be spending time with me as well. So we sold our house and each bought smaller condo townhomes nearby. (They were a little farther away from the city - so cheaper.) We bought two smaller places for less than we got for our one larger home - so the mortgages were smaller. This was intentional - because there were going to be 2 heating bills, 2 phone bills, etc. So you'll want to keep that in mind.

    The other point to make about telling other relatives the reason for your split - even if you're in the room at all times with your kids, it would be a shame if someone said something to your face that caused the kids to wonder if you were gay - or if someone said something point blank about being gay - before the kids knew. I know my husband had hoped to put that off until after the separation, and asked his wife not to tell her family that he was gay - and then she told them the first opportunity she had! So rather risk having the kids hear from someone else, he told them himself.

    Good luck - you'll get through this.
     
  16. Pete1970

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    Rick,

    our stories are kind of similar. We too had a trip planned 3 weeks after i told her. She initially didnt want to go but i convinced her to for the kids, ironically that was the first family vacation that nobody had a meltdown and it was actually kind of nice.

    She too was the first to mention divorce and the first to take off the rings. Weirdly the kids never noticed or at least they never said anything.

    i guess what i am saying is that right now she is hurt and mad, but as time passes, that should lessen.
     
  17. GayDadStr8Marig

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    I'm.getting the impression the timeline is accelerating to less than a year for the divorce and separation. she wants to hammer out the details have an attorney draft the agreement to file for the quickie divorce option here in Wisconsin. we will lay out the care and maintenance for the kids, disposal of the house and proceeds etc. all our debts besides mortgage will be gone in a matter of weeks. that just leaves the projects around the house to work on. if we get those done and the house sells quickly we could be out before school starts in the fall.