Hey guys, I guess that I am just looking for some support and advice, and I decided to post it here in the later in life section because I find that the people who post in this section have amazing insight and experience - perhaps the older the get the more wise we become I have read many of your stories and can actually relate to a lot of what you say. And at the age of 24 I do consider myself to be somewhat 'later in life' - certainly well out of my teenage years. So I guess I am struggling with what many people have struggled with before me. I know that I am attracted to guys, and I know that given that my attraction to guys quite markedly outweighs my natural attraction to girls, that gay would be the best descriptor for me. However - I am just having the hardest time finally accepting that - accepting that I am gay and that there is nothing that I can do about it. And as I sit here today writing this on my computer - I think about how this constant process of self denial has affected me. My self esteem has suffered, as has my motivation levels and my ability to find happiness in everyday things. I find that my mind is constantly consumed with thoughts about being gay, with thoughts about whether or not I am sure that it is true, with thoughts about WHY I am gay and with thoughts about how possibly I can avoid it. I honestly find it hard to think about anything else, or to concentrate properly on my studies. In fact I find that I have become firstly quite a selfish person - as all I ever do is think about myself and my 'problem' and also that I have made myself a somewhat isolated person too - constantly pushing other people away from me, creating walls around myself. Maybe I create these walls to protect myself, and maybe also I create these walls because I feel that I am not good enough to deserve other peoples love. Why have I struggled to accept my sexuality so much? I am not religious so that is not a factor, however, I do find the whole concept of homosexuality a little bit unusual to be honest. Even though I am attracted to other guys, I very rarely think of myself as gay - it is just very hard to apply it to myself. And interestingly enough I have no problems with other gay people - in fact some very good friends of mine are gay, and they know what I am going through because I have spoken to them about it. But it is just very hard for me to apply the idea to myself. Family has always also been very important to me as I grew up in a large and happy family - and for me the idea of not being able to have a wife and kids is something that has been very hard for me to let go of - to me that is a big loss. And I know that I can still have a husband and kids, but to me adoption and surrogacy are not the same. And many times I actually find myself thinking that I will just find a girl who 'understands' me (such as a girl who is going through a similar thing) and think that I could be happy with her. However - a lot of the personal stories that I have read here on EC do show that this path is almost undoubtably going to end in unhappiness. But yet I sometimes still think that for me it could work. In a way I know that I am essentially in denial, but for me the idea of officially coming out to everyone is so final - once you do it, that is it. There is no way back, no way to uncome out. And I worry that what if I come out and then realise that I am not as gay as I thought I was, or that it was just a phase, or I find an amazing girl. Constantly thinking about all of this, and having it constantly weighing on my mind is quite mentally tiring, and so I thought putting it down in writing here in EC might provide some catharsis for my weary mind Sean
Hey Sean, welcome to EC! I'm glad that you think of us as "wise", but really we're all just smart. The best definition I've heard of a wise person is someone who avoids the trouble the smart person has to get out of! You are right to suspect your thoughts about "just finding the right woman" I believed that very thing about myself, while in the throes of separation and divorce, until February 11 of last year. But when I realized the next day that I actually could envision myself in a romantic and loving relationship with a man...well, then everything changed. It is normal to be constantly thinking about this, one year on and it still occupies a large part of my mental real estate. I expect this will fade with time, as being gay, that is, as being who I am, becomes more comfortable (as it already has to a large extent). When you said you feel as if you aren't good enough to be loved...well, that is the classic definition of shame. I urge you to rethink that, and to do what has helped millions: take pride in who you are, imagine yourself loving and being loved by that one guy who will make all the difference for you. Stick around us old fogies, and elsewhere in our EC neighbourhood too, there is much to learn and much to contribute!
I hope.I can reassure you that you don't have to worry about learning later that being gay was just a phase. You either are or are not. You may misidentify yourself along the way as being straight/bi/gay/trans before you finally come to accept who you really are. The very fact that you recognize you are in self-denial is an asset to your ability to make progress. Keep talking to your gay friends about what you're feeling, and keep sharing your story with us here. It's amazing sometimes the depths you can dig into just by putting thoughts into words, whether spoken or written. I personally have made significantly more progress by participating here for less than a month than I did in the prior 5 months talking to the few friends I felt comfortable coming out to. Welcome to the Later section, Sean! Glad you joined us. -Rich
Excellent post, brilliantly written. Welcome. 20 years ago I was in your shoes, questioning, wondering what my attraction and fantasies over men meant for me. I was capable of loving women and having relationships with them. It had to be a phase. Maybe I was slightly bi. I tried to move past it, figuring I could deal with it. I still am in that process, and it's getting old. It wasn't a phase. I'm not slightly bi. I'm gay. This might not be you, that's your call. But the fact that you're here, writing about, wondering at a young age, leads me to think you know the answer and that you're grappling with applying a gay identity, a label, on yourself. I've seen the emotion which men can feel. I've read those feelings here. I want to share mine too, not just on a forum but with a deep thinking, rational, loving, emotional man. This forum shows me that's possible. Stick around. You'll learn a lot about us, but a lot about you too.
Thank you for your warm welcomes greatwhale and Rich and thank you for your words and advice. It is great to have found a community of people who have and are going through similar experiences, to be able to talk and discuss these experiences and to be able to support each other through them. It is very comforting to know that there are so many others out there like me - that it is not just me alone against the world! The funny thing is that I absolutely know without a doubt that I am gay. And yet it never ceases to amaze me the ability of the human mind to deny for so long what it knows to be true. In many ways I think the hardest and most important part of the process we have to go through is getting to the stage where we can say honestly to ourselves - "I am gay, and I am ok with that". I don't think that we necessarily have to be over the moon or overjoyed about it, but we have to recognise it, acknowledge it and accept it, and it is only then that we can start to be at peace with ourselves. Greatwhale I think you made some great points - at the back of my mind I think I have accepted that "finding the right woman" is not really an option - but when we are in denial we sort of set up these imagined realities where we think anything is possible, even when logically it is not. And the shame is something that I imagine many of us deal with, and I think when I can get over that shame properly and start to be proud of who I am, I will be all the happier for it. And Rich I totally agree that 'talking' about these things and writing them down really does clarify everything - it's stops your mind from confusedly running round in pointless circles of thoughts and really crystallises the essence of your thoughts and feelings. I am glad to have found such a welcoming community here on EC and look forward to getting to know some of you
Welcome to the forums! I realized my orientation a little later in life, at 24, as well. In my case I already married and had children so a wee bit different but similar feelings. I can tell you with a fair degree of certainty that a relationship between you and a woman centered only around procreation because you want your own progeny would likely be doomed to failure. That's not too say that such a relationship can't or won't work just that the cards are stacked against it. There it's also no guarantee that either you or the theoretical woman can actually have children. Despite all of our medical miracles there are still couples who can't procreate. Hang in there, check out the forums, maybe attend a local support group. Acceptance should come in time but give yourself all the times you need.
And thank you confused_mwm - you posted just before I did so I couldn't include you in my last post. I think knowing that something is true, and actually making it a reality is the really hard part about the process - the act of applying the actual identity and label of being gay to yourself is a momentously scary thing to do! It is like taking a huge leap of faith into the unknown. And I loved your last sentence - I certainly agree that EC is a great place to learn not only about others, but most importantly about yourself.
Hi - couple of thoughts bluebird - being gay doesnt define you totally as a person or your entire existence- you are a young man who happens to be gay but there are lots of other facets to your personality and life. Did you see Tom Daley's Youtube video? - he was careful not to label himself - he just said he was in relationship with a man. You shoudnt feel you have to label yourself or box yourself in - you are who you are at the present time, that's all. It does get better and easier over time....
Hi Sean, Glad to meet you. One question... What does gay mean to you? Lay it out in detail. When you close your eyes and imagine a gay 24 year old guy; How does dress? How does he move? How does he speak? How does he interact with others? What is his life like? What are his relationships like? Get a good solid mental image that society has drilled into your psyche as "gay man". Now, look in the mirror. You are looking at a 24 year old gay man. The definition offered up by society is total bullcr@p. Yeah some gay men may vaguely represent the image presented by society. I would guess maybe 1 to 2 out of 10 gay men fit any gay stereotype. The other 8-9 are just average guys who cannot be picked out of a crowd as gay. That is your problem in my opinion. You cannot relate to the stereotype presented and you reject it. Keep in mind stereotypes are for the totally ignorant to pigeon hole people. Because you are dealing with fools the stereotypes are garish charactertures of reality. Go meet some guys where you say "holy cr@p, you are gay? But you are like me" and you'll start relating. No we do stand out, we are the silent majority. Tom
Bluebird, I've been following this thread from your opening post, but just now have time to respond. Look to your left on your screen and note my age. Then look at my profile. All of that is the result of not acknowledging and accepting myself as a gay man for 56 years after I first really knew. That was a different time. Try to imagine what it would have been like to admit I was into guys when I was 13 (1957) or when I was 24 (1968)... But you live in a different time, one with a societal acceptance of gays at a level I never even dreamed of! Your inner battle is partly due, still, to societal and cultural programming, the use of the word "normal" when we mean "common," the use of "unnatural" when we mean "I'm not into that." Being gay is just a natural variation of our species. The only way we're not "normal" is that we are, and will always be, a minority in a hetero-normative world. Recent studies suggest that the probability of a boy/man being gay increases with each boy being born to a woman. Interesting finding about possible hormonal changes and genetic expression. My belief is that this will eventually be found to be a beneficial result of our evolutionary history. Can you articulate why you think surrogacy or adoption cannot provide the emotional satisfaction that you think having a child "the old-fashioned way" would be? And what you mean when you say that you find the whole idea the whole idea of homosexuality "unusual?" That might help you think more about the whole picture... Btw, I found your post to be well written, carefully thought out, and very descriptive of where you are at this moment in your life. And I find all of the responses to your thread insightful. I think you've found the right community to talk to here. And I hope you'll stick around and continue your conversation with all of us. (*hug*)/Ed.
Hi Tom and Ed, thank you for your responses Tom I think you are right in that while I do realise that I am gay, for a long time now I have been rejecting the gay identity - it just did not ever seem to fit or apply to me. It was almost a 'them' and 'me' mentality. And it is interesting that I know that being gay only means one thing in the end - that you are attracted to other guys, and everything else is irrelevant. Yet it can be hard to know this and to actually believe it. I think you are right about just getting to know some other gay people, I think it would help me realise that gay people are as varied and eclectic a bunch as straight people. It has also been hard for me to move on from the notion that in order to be happy you must follow a certain pathway - you must embody the 'American Dream' of a wife, kids, family vacations ect. Over time I certainly realise how foolish this belief is - many people who live this 'dream' are unhappy and many people who live outside of societal norms are in fact quite happy - there is no one pathway to happiness. I think for me a big problem is knowing something to be true - such as knowing that most gay people fall way outside of any stereotypes, knowing that there is no set path to happiness, knowing that I am gay and there is nothing that I can do to change it and actually believing it to be true. I KNOW all of these things on a subconscious level and yet in a way I still reject that they are true. Once again the human mind never ceases to amaze me! In the end I think my problem in finally accepting and acknowledging all of these things, and making them more a part of my life stems from the fact that in essence I am a 'people pleaser' - I feel almost compelled to follow what others think is best for me and reject what I know to be true. Realising and acknowledging this is an important first step and it is something I will need to work on if I am to move forward. I can almost feel the disappointment of my parents when I think about the truth. And it's not that they won't still love me or accept me, it is just that niggling feeling that I will have been a 'disappointment' as a son. And Ed thank you for your advice, I think you made some pertinent points, and thank you for complimenting my post I certainly could not imagine growing up in those times! But reading your posts does give me clarity on the point that these attractions and feelings never really go away and they are very hard to ignore forever. Ultimately some action has to be taken to take control of these feelings and of our lives - to 'own' who we are in a sense. Thank you once again for all of your advice - I am glad to have posted here in the 'later in life' section as I find the threads here to be amazingly insightful, and you have not disappointed! I feel a certain connection with those who have gone before me and very much value your advice. Sean.
If ever we were to re-name the Later in Life section, it would be a group called "The People Pleasers". So many of us here who married "knowing", in the way that you describe, that they weren't straight were simply that, trying to please everyone but themselves, because that would be seen as "selfish". If I could, I would ban the word "selfish" from the English language, heck from any language. People pleasing has a dark side of course, it's an abdication of responsibility, a kind of attitude that says to the world: "I'm not worth much, so I will outsource my happiness to the first available soul who wants me more than I do"... Take charge of your life. Have the courage to live with integrity, by being the person you are, and to take your rightful place on this stage called life. Take responsibility for your own happiness...no one else can really do that for you!
Tom & GW - your posts on this thread sum up my whole 20 year journey. I bought into lesbian stereotypes and, not seeing myself in them, and not knowing any of the invisible silent majority of gay women, didn't think I was gay enough. Throw in some internalized homophobia and a man that wanted me more than I wanted myself.... I thought I could "fake it until I made it" in that straight marriage. He said he knew he wanted to marry me the first day he met me. I thought that his fervor would make make up for my lack of interest. That did not work, folks. And here we are... Finally after I developed some self esteem and realized that a lesbian looks, acts, sounds, dresses, thinks, loves, (and has sex)just like me... I can finally accept myself and live my life authentically.
There must be a name for "the fear of being homosexual." I'd think that would be 'homophobia' but the on-line dictionary doesn't include that as a definition. Whatever. The point I'm trying to make is that, for whatever reason, you have a fear. Some people are afraid of snakes, or heights, or clowns...you're afraid of being gay. You can psychoanalyze yourself for years but that isn't necessarily going to do anything about your fear. I'm no expert, but I believe the "cure" for any fear is safe and gradual exposure to whatever it is you fear. Maybe you start with pictures of snakes or clowns, then you read stories, then you watch TV shows about them....whatever...it's a progressive exercise of incremental exposure until you get more and more comfortable. Maybe that's what you need to do with gay? Label yourself however you want. Don't come out to anyone. Instead, read gay stories or watch gay movies or go to gay social events. Maybe you can conduct your own personal study of gay people coming out. If you attend a support group for such people, you can see what makes them tick, how they handle the journey, and how they overcome their own fears. Their journey and emotions don't need to be yours...you can be there to support them. Honestly, at this point, it doesn't matter much what you do because eventually you'll relax and you'll meet someONE you really like. The only major mistake you could make would be to get seriously involved with a woman at a young age. Love is a powerful emotion, and so many young people believe it conquers all, but love and desire are NOT the same. Many a mid-life crisis erupts because all kinds of once-young people come to that daunting realization. Relax. Don't worry. You'll be fine. Everything will work out quite naturally in the end.
Hello Bluebird22 and welcome to EC...I want to wish you all the best on your journey to self discovery...many hugs(*hug*)
There not much I can add to this, the group of people who've responded to you are some of the people I respect most in my life right now. They're right, this doesn't go away! I wish Great Whale would have been around with that people pleaser piece when I was 24. Many of us right here in this post left ourselves behind in our teens and twenties because of stereotypes or fear of not fitting societal norms. Aka the people pleasers... You're definitely early in your life. Don't hunt your label, pursue your happiness... Tom is right... Most of us do not fit the stereotypes you've imagined. Welcome! Keep posting!
Hi everyone - thank you for all of your great responses. This thread has really helped clarify my thoughts for me - and I think greatwhale's post really got to the heart of the matter. I will re-read and think about everything you have all said And I look forward to getting to know you all better as we all take our journeys through this crazy thing called life (&&&)
Been away living life for awhile and just came back to EC. Very interesting posting from everyone. I fit the same mold of being married, then divorced then dating another woman when I discovered my true sexuality. It is true at first it was hard to imagine that I could find that kind of total fulfillment with another man. I certainly didn't want to be labeled as a "homo", so I said I was bi. This lasted about 5 minutes because I knew in my heart that I had crossed a river and there was no going back. It took a while but I grew to be able to identify as a homosexual. I no longer cared what other people thought. It has been an incredible journey so far, not with its problems and issues but well worth it. I only wish I had started the journey like you in my twenty. In the about three years since I came to the realization of my sexuality I have become a different person in every way and frankly I love the "new" gay me. I am at peace with the most important person-ME! I wish the same for you. You are not strange, odd, or anything else you are a man coming to terms with your sexuality. Embrace it, be proud of it, enjoy the ride of discovery, it will be a ride of a lifetime. Keep focused on what YOU need and feel, nothing else. It will work out for you.
