Greetings folks, At 9:30 this evening, I will be meeting with the rabbi of what I consider to be my former orthodox congregation. He is not the former rabbi, someone who I consider to be a close friend and mentor; this is the (relatively) new rabbi, very much orthodox but with spiritualist, meditation-yoga-vegetarian-type tendencies. Nothing wrong with that, he is also quite learned and a good speaker. He invited me to meet with him this evening upon learning of the settlement of my quasi-divorce. So I am going there with an open mind, curious as to what he wants to discuss. I can only surmise that he is inviting me back to re-join the synagogue. Something I do not intend to do...but who knows, both he and God could make me an offer I can't refuse... I suppose it comes from a concern, originating in Genesis that "it is not good for a man to be alone". I couldn't agree more! :icon_bigg, however, I do intend to inform the Rabbi that the person I intend to be with, in order to not be alone, will most likely be a dude. :eek: The orthodox tradition has some serious theological and halachic (Jewish Law) work to do when it comes to reconciling biblical prohibitions and homosexuality. The situation in the Orthodox fold is not a good one in that regard. Either one remains fully closeted, openly gay but celibate, or in total rejection of the entire thing. But one thing for sure, there are as many gay orthodox Jews as there are gay non-Jews, and in roughly equal proportions. I will tell the rabbi that I do miss my adhesion and commitment to the commandments, but that I have evolved, perhaps unconsciously, to a different understanding of both myself and my initial conversion to Judaism (not for marriage but actual conviction) that took place in 1985. I will also tell him that I have no faith in the orthodox fold's ability to "come to terms" (to use a well-worn phrase in these parts) any time soon with the inescapable fact of homosexuality. I will simply tell the Rabbi that I have as much right as anyone else to live a life of love and sexual fulfillment. I will tell him that I need a place of worship where I can bring my boyfriend or husband with me. He will be told that I want a community where I can have a partner, openly. I will not accept being simply "tolerated". Thankfully, I have choices here in my city. There is a Reconstructionist synagogue nearby that is as Left-wing as can be (a congregation that, at one point during my orthodoxy, I would not be caught dead in). They have (or will soon have) no great objection to same-sex marriage but might be more uncomfortable with marriage to a non-Jew! :lol: I suppose the Rabbi will be saddened by my interest in this other congregation, but we'll see...I don't know him that well...he will however definitely know me better by the time we part ways... To continue with this theme, here is a great and hilarious gay short: "Shabbat Dinner"...enjoy! :icon_bigg [YOUTUBE]zcshRjybDms[/YOUTUBE]
I wish you the best tonight in your dialogue with the Rabbi. If you are willing to do so please share the results. Sometime in the future, I may be having a similar conversation with my pastor.
Being Roman Catholic, I've talked to two priests and one deacon. One of the priests and the deacon we both very comforting and sympathetic to the issues facing the gay members of the church and their inconsistent treatment of homosexuality compared to heterosexuality. The other priest while sympathetic to my situation was much more inclined to advise staying closeted for the sake of the marriage vows and the children. Needless to say his remarks rang to the high heavens of the paternalism you'd expect, while couched in sympathetic tone and "outreach". Best of luck in sharing your views with the rabbi... orthodoxy on both sides of the Judeo-Christian traditions will be slowest and most begrudging to evolve to accommodate the science historical background behind homosexuality vs "traditional" readings of scripture.
Well, just got back...(I had to take a walk through our version of the "polar vortex"...man, it's cold out there with all that wind!) We met at a local coffee shop and sat down, unfortunately, they were closing in 15 minutes. I talked about the divorce process and complained about the high cost (a little less than a thousand!) of the "Get" which is the ritual (and resulting certificate) of Jewish divorce. He also said it was ridiculously high for something so simple. Guess who's paying for that... Anyway, not having much time, I segued into the main event: I simply and bluntly told him "I'm gay"... Now, Rabbi O. is one of those guys who is almost pathologically calm...so getting an "Oh Wow" (but said in a kind of bland tone) was, from him, quite something! Then I told him I have yet to come out to the wife and kids...again, blandly: "Oh Wow...that's crazy!". I explained that this will happen when we get the final (civil) divorce papers in about a couple of weeks. Anyway, after a few more still-bland "Oh wows", he mentioned a couple of books on the subject (I did say he was knowledgeable) and I had actually read one of them: "Wrestling with God & Men: Homosexuality in the Jewish Tradition" by Rabbi Steven Greenberg. He also suggested a couple more books from a Montreal author on this subject as well (duly noted). He then asked me if I was sure, and whether I was possibly bisexual. I told him that I had used the bisexual label for a long time but that it no longer fit. And that (sigh!) yes, I am sure I'm gay. I told him of my recent involvement (hotline, choir, marching in the Pride parade) in the gay community (more bland "Oh wows"). As the coffee shop was closing, we decided to take our coffees and take a walk (in said polar vortex) I explained what our settlement entailed (he seemed very interested in the details, but everything was confidential, so OK). As we were walking, I asked him how the community would react to this news, he didn't have a clue, but we both speculated that the Sephardic community, of which this congregation is made up of, might be less than accepting. I told him about the Reconstructionist synagogue and he agreed with me that it is composed of some very intelligent and educated people. I told him it was probably the only alternative for me, to which he replied by saying that from his standpoint, he had no problem welcoming me back (but of course, the congregation may have different ideas). I kind of expected this from him, but it was nice to hear anyway. He was supportive and accepting, I was amazed he took the time to reach out to me in this "interesting" time on such a cold evening. I will never forget this kind gesture on his part. Nevertheless, it is highly unlikely that I will ever go back to his synagogue...
I'm so glad that you talked with the Rabbi. I'm actually yet to meet a rabbi of any form who has anti-gay sentiments. You may find that you have more friends than you thought within the Sefardi congregation, but it's almost a guarantee that you'll find acceptance in the reconstructionist shul. There a lot of gay Jews in Westmount. I know that it took tremendous strength to speak to Rabbi O., and you have my congratulations and best wishes. Ken yehi ratzon.
GW, That sounds like a healingly and refreshingly honest conversation. I'm so happy for you that you had it and that the Rabbi was so welcoming of detail, of your story, of you.
Great! I am happy for you. A year or so ago our church got a new pastor/reverend or what ever you may want to call him. Now since then I have not yet accepted the fact nor even tried to "bond" with his presence in the community. This makes me feel a bit lost. And to be honest, I doubt he'll understand me being gay. Not saying he is not open to it either but I just don't know. And worse, I don't know him well enough, like if did the previous pastor. I am happy for you
It sounds like a good conversation. And it could have gone worse. I can imagine people meeting with a Christian minister who immediately starts praying the gay away... :eek: Like this divorce hasn't already cost a fortune... Although, some have joked that "divorce is expensive because it's worth it!"
This is a fairly recent development, for the longest time it used to cost something like around $400. But Montreal's Beth Din (Jewish court) was recently consolidated into this monopoly that oversees everything; hence the right to adjudicate divorces (and other things like conversions, kashrut supervision, etc.) was basically taken away from most synagogues. Now they charge outrageous fees for some pretty basic stuff. Meh, outrageous but, as you said, worth the price...she can't re-marry (in a Jewish sense, of course) without it.
Update: On 24 February, I reported above on the Rabbi's reaction to my divorce and coming out. I also stated that he was very curious about the details. I didn't go into it above, but he went so far as to ask me how much I am paying in child support, etc. I told him while perplexed as to why he would ask...but I think I know why now. My daughter babysits for the Rabbi's kids, and she told me last night that the Rabbi is currently separating from his wife! :eek: I swear, God has one wicked sense of humour...
Yes - He does. I know we can carry a lot of shame and guilt around about getting divorced - but I often tell people that we (those of us here at EC) have a pretty legitimate reason for getting divorced compared to most people. They at least are compatible from a gender / sexual orientation perspective. They just gave up trying to get along and love each other - which is a shame.
