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Trouble with self acceptance

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Casper22, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. Casper22

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    Hi guys,

    I know I have started a few threads in this section (previously bluebird22), but I find that I connect with the people in this 'later in life' section, and plus I think that you guys give the best advice as you have the benefit of time and experience on your side, which I think gives your insights more weight. And I have read many of the threads in this section and I think there really is some great advice in here - with a wealth of experiences to back these opinions up.

    So I guess what I want to discuss/seek advice over is the self acceptance of being gay because this is something that I find that I am having real problems with. I know that I am gay - when I look at it objectively there is basically no doubt about this. I have been attracted to guys for as long as I can remember, and it is not an attraction that is subsiding. I check out guys basically all of the time when I am out and about, I have crushes on guys, I enjoy watching gay porn, I daydream and dream about guys - whereas none of this happens with girls. So for me to claim or think that I was anything other than gay would really be quite ludicrous, and I know that.

    But I am really having the hardest time actually accepting that, the hardest time just admitting to myself "Sean, you are gay, and that is okay". Honestly - I have known at the back of my mind that I am gay for quite a few years now - every sign points in that direction. But I just can't get to the point where I am alright with that, even though it is so clearly true. I can't get to the point where I can just relax and be happy with it - instead I find that I am constantly fighting this mental battle against it - and it is getting quite exhausting to be honest.

    And it is almost comical to me that I KNOW that I am gay - how the hell could I objectively deny that when I lay the facts out. But somehow my mind does deny it - oh maybe you're bisexual, oh maybe it's just a phase. It seems like my mind will go to almost any length to deny that it is true. For some reason I see being gay as an impediment to my future happiness, like I can never be happy as a gay man. I feel almost guilty about being gay, like it a big problem and that my life would be so much better if it weren't the case.

    I feel almost as though I just need to surrender to it, I need to just stop fighting what is so obviously true.

    Anyone experienced similar feelings or have any advice?

    Sean :slight_smile:
     
  2. Chip

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    My guess is that it's the loss you're struggling with here. To admit you're gay is to close the door on a "normal" life (married to a women, perceptions of society, and so forth.)

    The stages of processing loss (denial-anger-bargaining-grief-acceptance) aren't always linear, nor do we spend the same amount of time in each one, and it's not uncommon to get stuck in "bargaining" (which, based on what you've said, is where you are now.)

    So at a certain point, yes, surrender is pretty much the process of moving beyond the bargaining. It's essentially giving up on the idea that you can be straight and married to a woman, and all the privileges that come with that... which, in turn, leads to the grieving process of understanding and accepting that loss.

    Another piece, for most people, is understanding the shame that (for nearly all of us) comes with being gay, because inherently, by accepting that part of ourselves, we also accept that we'll never "belong" to one of the biggest societal groups in the world, which is "heterosexaul people." And shame is the deeply held belief that we don't belong. People stay closeted because they want to try to "fit in" which, ultimately, only makes shame worse, because we realize we're lying to ourselves and others, and that we don't really belong.

    So, too, acknowledging the fear that we won't be be worthy of love from our family or friends, won't be accepted by them or by society, then we begin to be able to process that fea and let go of it. The antidote to shame is empathy: letting ourselves be seen, sharing our stories with those who have earned the right to hear it, and feeling the connection and support of those people.

    Talking about it here at EC is one of the best ways to start that process... which you're already doing :slight_smile:
     
  3. Ters14

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    You're at a crossroads and should take your time to weigh the benefits and costs of being out. Are you prepared to face the good and bad and do you have support in being able to do that. Now is the time to keep your closest friends and family close. Good luck.
     
  4. gloomy

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    Mate I went through this myself for years and It just clicked oneday where im like yeh I am gay and its just somthing I just come to terms with and of cource everything factors into your thaughts like famley and social life and just everyday situations I just recently come out of the closet like a week ago and it is hard to try keep going normal but its only in my head where things become difficult because in reality nobody cares and nobody sees me difrantly im still me its a shock to them initially but everyone just moves on from that. What im saying is youll just know and come to terms with it all out of nowhere and judt dont put too much pressure on yourself to accept it
    hope it helps
     
  5. greatwhale

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    All of the above has been excellent advice. I would add simply that the mind loves categories and labels. Before you know it, your whole identity gets caught up in what it is you call yourself.

    Just be who you are and love who you will love, no need to define it further than that, what you are dealing with is not only loss of your earlier conception of "normal", you are still trying to hold on to it.

    Just let it go. You could make a ritual of it if you want, it could be as simple as writing a message on a piece of paper describing your former self-conception and burning it, or tossing it into the sea.

    May you find the peace of self-acceptance, Brother, it is well worth the price of admission!
     
  6. Choirboy

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    Chip is very right about feeling a sense of loss. A huge part of the reason I couldn't accept being gay years ago, even though I knew that everything I felt pointed that way, was that I wanted desperately to be accepted by society as a whole. My family was very conformist, and while being gay really wasn't even remotely discussed or dealt with in a positive OR a negative light, the notion of getting married and raising a family certainly was. Plus, I was basically a shy, kind, friendly kid who really wasn't interested in being the center of attention, and just wanted to live the average life that my parents were living. The more I came to realize I was gay, the more of a chill it gave me, because that whole fantasy future I had built up was feeling very threatened.

    I was very sure it was a phase of some kind, or that perhaps I'd find another guy who felt the same way and we could have some kind of infrequent trysts to "get it out of my system" now and then. All very much working under the assumption that this was just some kind of wave of urges I could ride out so it wouldn't threaten the standard, wife-and-kids lifestyle I had in my head as what I "should" do. I really did feel like I had much more to lose than to gain by coming out so, obviously, I didn't, until recently. Giving up the possibility of a straight, "normal" life, seemed like a huge loss, and one I just couldn't handle. So I didn't accept it.

    What I CAN tell you, Sean, is that my experience in the 30 or so more years I've been walking the planet than you, is that I finally discovered that being gay wasn't that greatest impediment to my happiness. DENYING being gay was. I literally wore myself out trying NOT to be gay because I was so sure it wasn't "the way I wanted to live my life". What I didn't realize when I was your age and decided to sweep the gay under a nice big rug in my mental closet, was how much I was hurting myself by doing it. It's not like being gay is the only aspect to your personality. I know it isn't for me. In fact, when you think of all the interests you have--books, movies, maybe sports, activities in general--being gay may not even figure in all that much. But the effort that you spend trying to reprogram all the time leaves you very little energy for anything else.

    Very simple, old analogy: I am fairly dominantly right-handed. If I had grown up in a household full of people who wrote with their left hands, I might very well assume that's how I should be writing. Just for laughs, pick up a pen with your non-dominant hand. Try to write something very basic, like your name and address, and drawing some simple, standard doodle like a house or a dog or a 1959 DeSoto (sorry, I doodle weird things!). Drives you crazy, right? Now try it with your dominant hand. Much easier (unless of course you're unsure of what the 1959 DeSoto looks like). Suddenly the house doesn't look like a rock, the dog doesn't look like an amoeba, and the 1959 DeSoto doesn't look suspiciously like the 1958 (hah).

    Accepting that you're gay is a thought process only you can really figure out HOW to do in your own head. But it's much easier when you have the WHY down pat. And the WHY is pretty simple. It's part of all the things that make up who you are, and make you unique and one-of-a-kind and...Sean. There are amazing things that are easy to miss when you're trying to be someone other than who you are; there is great happiness to be found. I came out to be honest WITH myself, ABOUT myself, and had no other expectations other than not having to hide anymore. And here I am, less than a year and a half after looking in the mirror and saying to myself, "John, you're gay, always have been, always will be. Time to stop lying and thinking it will go away, and start figuring out how to be who you really are instead of who you think you were supposed to be."

    Nope, haven't won the lottery, my gray hair hasn't magically switched to brown, and I'm not suddenly thin, buff and how. But I'm happier, better able to relate to other people, and I am comfortable with who I am--something I haven't felt for my whole adult life. (Oh, and in love, too!) So I can't tell you HOW to let all that go, only why it will help you so very much if you do. Someone may think the doodles you do with your dominant hand are pretty funky and artistic and cool. If you keep using the other hand, they won't even notice them.
     
  7. gloomy

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    Wow mate gotta say you hit the nail on the head there!!
     
  8. BlueSky224

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    Sean,

    I think there are often "fairy tale" (haha) answers to your situation. In a TV or movie, a gay character comes out to everyone, and he suddenly feels great, and then he lands a hot partner. It just doesn't work that way.

    In self-help literature, there is this notion that one can just magically have self-acceptance, self-confidence, and self-esteem. These aren't products that one can buy or acquire just through thought.

    My own view is that there is a level of self-acceptance that says, "I'm gay; that's not going to change. I don't have to be happy about it, but I need to get used to this."

    I know it sounds cynical, but it's perhaps a more reasonable step. If you end up "happy to be gay," great! But maybe that's not a reasonable goal right now (or ever.)

    Perfectionism and over-compensation come with the territory. I'm no exception. Some guys over-compensate with a perfectionist pre-occupation with their bodies. Others (like me) are dead set on pleasing everyone else. I'm 15 years older than you, but I'm still learning that most people just don't care that much. And I include Australian friends from my childhood in that statement.

    In other words, acceptance means just that: acceptance, not necessarily "joy." I hope you can get to the point of saying, "this is who I am."

    Choirboy's handedness analogy is perfect. I could work really hard to become left-handed, but why bother?
     
  9. Filip

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    I'll chip in to say I concur with the above. It might not be the ideal end point, but it is a very reasonable starting point!

    And it is, in fact, where I started. At some point, I did the math and figured out that me being gay was really the only theory that fir my life. Any other explanation required a whole lot of ifs and buts, but "I'm gay" was a simple, perfectly fitting explanation.

    So... I couldn't argue with the data (I am, after all, a scientist :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:), but to call that "acceptance" would be going much too far. Let's call it "resignation" instead. I resigned myself to making the best out of a shitty situation. Resigned myself to salvaging what scraps I could get out of my former "ideal dream".

    Best thing I ever did after that, was coming out, really. Yeah, there's people saying you should be totally sure of yourself and OK with yourself and self-accepting and all. and for some that might be what they need to be ready.
    But I wasn't ready or sure or proud or anything like that. I just decided that I was, if nothing else, not straight. and that I was tired and done with constant lying and avoiding. And that if that meant losing friends, so be it.

    And guess what? My friends actually were the ones to pull me through. I came out to only a few trusted friends at first. I only came out in a vague way ("So.. I may, possibly, not end up dating a girl, if you know what I mean"). I probably looked like a puppy about to get kicked.

    But they didn't actually seem to care all that much. If anything, they seemed happy for me to have figured it out. One of them told me that, even if I looked unhappy, he had never seen me so look so relieved before.
    Also, they had no issues with occasionally bringing it up, even (or rather, especially) when I seemed to avoid the topic. Or with accepting that sometimes I didn't know the answer either. Or just playfully suggest I should be the next one to get drinks because that bartender was totally checking me out!
    And they actually didn't take any bullshit. When I was even vaguely suggesting not being able to do X or Y, they'd usually be vocal about how they saw no problems with it whatsoever.


    In the end, I'm now pretty OK with it. I wasn't OK before I came out, but actually being out and discovering it didn't make any difference was what made me see that my life isn't good because or despite me being gay. It's just one of the 500 other traits I have and that I try to make the most of!
     
  10. PatrickUK

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    I think self acceptance is the hardest and longest part of the coming out process and there are so many real and perceived obstacles to overcome along the way. Once we finally accept or resign ourselves to the fact that we are gay, then we have the scary prospect of pushing the closet door wide open and continuing the journey - but I actually think that's the easier part. As we struggle for self acceptance we ask ourselves many questions, we come up with all sorts of "what ifs" to the point that we can hardly think of anything else. Suddenly, our sexuality becomes an all consuming emotional monster and fear overtakes us.

    I was around your age when I finally gave in (and that's really what happened with me.. I just gave in through exhaustion). I'd raged war against my feelings for almost a decade, during which time I hit rock bottom. Like you Sean, I was, and remain, exclusively attracted to the same sex and I just had to accept it. I didn't choose it, I didn't ask for it, but I was being a bloody fool in deluding myself that I could be anything other than gay. Frankly, I was knackered from the fight and in the end and I just ahd to give in. I was living a lie that had been partially responsible for an emotional crisis and I knew I was heading back that way unless I faced the f***er down!

    I think you are still in your own war right now Sean and maybe you are losing the fight? Don't be scared of losing it mate - this isn't such a bad war to lose. You'll probably feel a great sense of relief.
     
  11. greatwhale

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    I often feel that I was able to overcome my own sexual feelings from a position of misapplied strength. In other words, I was strong enough, and had built strong and elaborate defenses (including religion) while categorizing or compartmentalizing these strange tendencies as "fantasies" against facing what I am, and was at your age.

    It is an exhausting fight and it is directly responsible for the miseries I am trying, and only just starting, to overcome now. Acceptance doesn't mean loving what you have to accept...this is exactly what "coming to terms" or the "terms of surrender" really means. It is a negotiated truce, a live-and-let-live situation.

    You make the most of what you have...what have you to gain? Peace, and the delight of whole-hearted love...Not a bad trade-off.
     
  12. StillAround

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    Sean,

    I agree completely with so many comments here. It took me 56 years to accept that I am gay, and I survived those years by building the most elaborate defenses. But finally, I just ran out of energy. So I accepted the undeniable fact of my sexuality. And once I did that, and confessed the truth to my wife, coming out to everyone else has been so much easier than I ever imagined!

    Each of us has to find our own way. I hope you find peace within yourself. If you do, I think you'll find so much of your life changing for the better (though it will take time).

    /Ed. (*hug*)
     
  13. Casper22

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    Hi guys,

    thank you so much for all of your advice - it is comforting to know that many of you have been where I am right now, and it gives me strength to see that you have come out the other side. I feel as though I am standing on the edge of a precipice and all I need to do now is to just jump - but the truth is that I am petrified of taking that leap. Petrified because it is such a permanent leap - once I accept that I am gay once and for all there is no going back, no climbing back up that cliff face to where I am now - no possibility of the life that I think I desire. I close the door on that idea forever. At the end of the day though I think I will find that I have no option but to take that jump into the unknown - and it is scary, and I have no idea what the future holds for me after I take that leap. I will have no option because how I am living my life at the moment isn't sustainable - it is almost as though I am a pressure cooker about to explode! In many ways I am often looking for an escape to being gay - but then I hate the idea that any of those options would mean living a life that is not open and honest, and I know that given my current state that that would simply not be sustainable.

    When I deny who I know I am, I end up essentially hating myself, hating who I am - and at the end of the day I can't sustain that. How can I expect anyone else to love or respect me when I don't love or respect myself?

    And I think that it will surprise you to hear that in a lot of ways I am actually sort of out of the closet - I have told quite a number of friends and talked to them about it, and I have discussed it with some members of my family, including my siblings. And at the end of the day they are all very supportive and just want me to be happy. In many ways I told them because I thought that it would make it better - kind of provide the impetus for me to finally just accept the facts. But that has not happened, instead I think it has made it worse as now the fact that I am so uncomfortable with my sexuality is laid out for everyone to see - and it is something that would be much easier to deal with in my own head. I almost regret talking to them about it too because it means that one foot is dangling over that precipice and in some ways it has closed the door on any possibilities other than accepting myself without raising some eyebrows/questions from these people. For me it is not so much an issue of coming out to people, it is much more an issue of just accepting who I am, finally being comfortable with it and moving on with my life. That's not to say that coming out certainly isn't a big component of it as a lot of people don't know, and even the people I have spoken to about it - we basically never speak about it anyway as they know it is a subject that makes me extremely uncomfortable.

    I know I just need to let go - I can't keep doing all this mental gymnastics that is required in trying to deny what I know to be true. I think being here on EC will help me towards a happier place. Thank you once again for all of your advice. :slight_smile:
     
    #13 Casper22, Apr 4, 2014
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  14. greatwhale

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    One thought about decisions: the word to decide means to "cut away", yes it is somewhat permanent, with all due allowances for the recognized fluidity of sexuality (no false hope here, this is pretty permanent!)

    It is said often, a door closes and no sooner done, a window opens...look to the window!

    And just to confuse matters even more, it isn't really a decision, well the decision isn't whether you are gay, the decision is whether you will accept it. And through that window is a garden of sweet delight, integrity and whole-hearted love.
     
    #14 greatwhale, Apr 4, 2014
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  15. Filip

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    First of all: glad to hear that you feel being on here will help you! That's what we're here for!

    Meanwhile, your post did raise some more thoughts. Which, again, I'm hoping can be of some help:

    - Congrats on already telling some people! You mention it almost casually, but as most of us can attest, first coming outs are hard, and already having come out a few times is no feat to make light of!
    That said... I do think you fell into a bit of a trap after coming out, where they know, but your unease is so palpable that you're essentially all still acting as if you're in the closet.

    It's not unusual at all to have that happen. In fact, as out as I am to friends, I'm still at that stage with my mom, four years after coming out, where she knows, but always manages to avoid the topic or use general pronouns etc.

    Now, this isn't necessarily going to be easy, but your best option might possible be to come out again to the people you already told. Not to tell them again that you're gay (they probably remembered that part :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:), but about how uncomfortable it still makes you. In essence: tell them what you posted above. And then, ask them to bring it up once in a while, and not let the uncomfortableness dissuade them from doing so.

    I didn't really have the same uncomfortableness talking about it, but I had something similar in actually avoiding any kind of remotely "gay" activity. So, my friends would occasionally ask about whether I had already reached out to local gay people, visited a gay bar, even just checked online whether such things existed. They'd offer to come along with me if it'd make things easier, but I found good excuses everytime.
    So, I was OK being open and all, but I'd still act as if I was the only gay guy in the city.
    And... at some point I did just tell my friends: "yeah, I'll kick and scream and make excuses, but you're not allowed to take them. It's what I need and I'll need your help to do it. Even if it requires tying me up and dragging me along!"

    And, in the end, that's what they did (okay, they didnt literally tie me up :wink:). Guess what, I found out that the local gay people didn't bite and I didn't end up fainting upon drinking a glass in the local gay bar. I never quite became a regular there, but it was a very valuable step in coming out!



    - You keep mentioning "closing the door on the ideal life once and for all". And that can be a very pervasive thought. But it's also, in my experience, very much not true.
    Yeah, often the details will have to be changed. But often, we're given to mistake the details for the essence. So... will you find a women to love until the end of time? Not specifically. But even for straight guys, it's the "love" part in that plan that's essential, not the "woman" part.
    Similar for having kids. Yeah, I'll probably not have biological kids of my own. But... I'll get to adopt and raise kids with the guy I love, which still fulfills most of my original plan. I just tend to think of it as if I had married a woman and we'd discovered one of us was infertile. Would that mean I'd have to leave her or bemoan my horrid fate? No. If I were straight, imperfections like these could happen and I'd roll with it!

    So... just make sure you aren't just focusing on this overwhelming feeling of "losing all my dreams". Make a concrete list of the dreams and see if they change at all if the female in them is replaced with a man, or that couldn't go awry even with a woman. You'll find that most, if not all of them, have alternatives that are pretty OK!


    - Last but not least... I know this feels like jumping off a ledge. And all you have to go on is faith in people like us, who've made the jump and assure you there was indeed a net and live is better after the jump.
    So: that's hard and takes a lot of time. You are on the right track, however, so take the time you need. We'll remain here to cheer you on!
     
  16. Ditz

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    Hi Sean

    I actually want to thank you for posting this... I'm in exactly the same boat and the advice that where given by various members have been very enlightening to me.

    I've spend all my life fighting the notion that I'm gay, I still think that I'm Bi leaning towards the gay side but like you it's a constant struggle to accept myself for whom I really am and letting go of the dream of having the perfect "straight" family life... Somehow I don't want to close that door, it's so hard to let go of that fantasy.

    As a kid I had it all figured out, I used to play wedding games with the prettiest girls in kindergarten... You know, the trophy wife kind of idea... But I should have seen the blaring obvious back then, I was the "Wedding Planner" that should have been a dead give away!!!

    I often wonder that if society had no negativity towards being gay, if there was no pressure to conform to the norm of getting married to a woman and having kids, if we where told as toddlers one day you will meet a boy or a girl with whom you'll fall in love and if the things we where good at as kids like art where praised and encourage just as much as the typical boy activities like sports etc. would we even question our sexuality or just be who we are meant to be?

    There's lots of food for thought on the advice that where given by various members... I can see a lot of it mirrored in my own life, i.e. Constantly trying to please others, being a perfectionist and most importantly trying to write with my left hand in stead of my right... That kinda hit home more than anything else.

    I truly hope that both you and I and others who are in the same boat will manage to accept and learn to love ourselves for who we really are... Life is way to short to waste it on things that will never let us shine the way we are meant to shine.
     
  17. Yossarian

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    For some reason this hit a positive nerve with me. Why don't we just tell our kids that some day they will meet a boy or a girl with whom they will fall in love with? A PERSON they will fall in love with, instead of steering them towards the opposite-sex hetero-normative stereotype that causes gay kids so much trouble, and makes for so much homophobic hate, because little Johnny made a taboo "choice". So that they can just go out and date boys and girls, whichever they feel like on a given day, and pick out who suits them best. What a much more wonderful world it would be without so many society-screwed-up people in it. If I ever have grandkids, I am going to tell them exactly that.
     
  18. Theron

    Regular Member

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    So many wonderful, thorough comments. Accepting any part of yourself is an ongoing process, whether it's your butt or your sexuality. Part of what makes it hard to accept your sexuality is much like why women find accepting their own bodies hard.

    Society has these skewed images that they present. For women, it's grossly photoshopped images that give a false impression of an impossible perfect woman. For gays and lesbians, it's that the perfect life is man marries woman, has 2.5 kids and a dog with a house in the suburbs with a green lawn and a white picket fence and they are monogamous and happy and normal with no fetishes and no imperfections.

    I have my house in the 'burbs. My "wife" is just going to be my "husband" instead and there will be no 2.5 kids. There's a cat. Working on the dog part.
     
  19. PatrickUK

    Advisor Full Member

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    One of the big issues you seem to facing and fearing (and I did too) is that of change. What will life be like afterwards and how will being gay and coming out change you? It's scary isn't it? The reality can seem quite bland though.

    For me, life changed a little, but there were no tornado's or earthquakes. I am essentially the same person, with the same ideas and interests. Being gay and coming out (to the few people I did 'come out' to) didn't change my whole persona, but it did liberate me from the closet and emotional turmoil and I feel a lot more relaxed about myself. The biggest change was meeting the man I love and share my life with.. something I count my blessings for everyday.

    There's no science or magic formula to coming out Sean, but it beats the pants off staying in the closet and living with self denial and deceit. Really hope you get there!
     
  20. Casper22

    Regular Member

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    Thanks for all of your help guys - I read it all and it does all really help me! I think what the most useful thing for me to do is just to break it down to the bare essentials. I spend so much time in essence trying to avoid being gay. And sometimes in our heads our sexualities can become very complex when they are actually very simple. We build them up to something huge in our heads by constantly thinking about it. Sometimes we just need to just stop and break it down to the very basics. And the basics are:

    Am I attracted to guys? Yes - very strongly and naturally so. As in it is an attraction that comes very naturally and that I can't help. It is spontaneous. And it is not going away - it is as present now as it was 8 years ago.

    Am I attracted to girls? Not especially - they never 'stop me in my tracks' like a cute guy can, I never really develop crushes on them. There is no real spontaneous attraction there. I cannot think of one time when I have seen a girl and spontaneously thought "god damn it she is so so hot and I would absolutely love to make out with her" - whereas that has happened many countless times with guys. I don't long for girls like I can for guys. I mean I can appreciate their beauty, but it is basically the same for me as appreciating a nice work of art or a good view if you get what I mean.

    I mean, if I was at out at the bar or pub or whatever and I was given the opportunity to make out with either a hot guy or a hot girl all night - I would 100 000% choose the guy every single time. And I think that tells me all I need to know.

    I need to just face this f**ker and stop torturing myself/denying what is so clearly true. And what by all accounts and by common sense shows will not change. Because I am definitely back in the self acceptance stage. I honestly thought that I had gotten past this stage last year, but I find myself right back in it. I need to just break it down to the basics of sexuality and accept what my attractions are clearly telling me, just accept what is clearly fact and move on.
     
    #20 Casper22, Apr 7, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2014