1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

After all these years, who am I?

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Horizon55, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. Horizon55

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada East
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Hi all,
    Well, as many of you have before me, I've been reading forum threads for over a month before joining today. I need more support.

    I'm 58, 25+years married, 23 year old son and 20 year old daughter. Marriage has mostly been good. Wife swept me off my feet at age 29! She has been my only ever heterosexual partner. Had a couple of casual encounters that were experiments with guys that were unrewarding before her so I really thought she was it. Sexually we have been challenged… lack of interest on my part. Saw three therapists over last 5 years. I had a chaotic alcoholic father, violent household, catholic, restrictive upbringing leaving a number of legacy issues: emotionally flat, don't get close to people or let them get close to me, lack of confidence, etc. Found my solace as a teen in multiple church youth groups. No typical adolescent or young adult exploration!

    As the therapist helped me open myself up emotionally we began to work on opening a new sexual fantasy world that I never let happen much. I knew I had attraction to men but never let it just grow. And it has grown hugely to the point that one man swept me away a few months ago and I think I now realize why I am so flat with my wife. My therapist says just 'live the life you feel'. The feelings are both exciting and scary. When I told my wife that I may have a bigger attraction to men than I thought (as she asks what the therapist and I are working on in relation to our sex life), she panicked that I might be gay, said our married life is over, I have just used her to have kids, she'll never find a partner and I'll go start a new exciting life. This was 4 weeks ago. We put the conversation on hold as I said I was working on this and she said go away and work on it with my therapist and don't discuss it again until I know for sure. So now we really aren't talking. I'm encouraging her to get counselling support but she says I'm rushing her to act when its taken me years to tackle my issues. She has a lot of anger pent up over our sex life and I know it is going to come at me hard if and when the path I think I'm on gets travelled.

    I'm anxious, fearful of the next conversation, fearful of a life possibly without her, fearful I might lose my kids, unsure how to be 'sure' about what I'm feeling before I pull my life apart. I do feel however, that something big is missing. But I don't know if I'm just making it big in a late mid-life crisis. How can I be sure about 'me'? How do I explore this side of me but stay faithful to my wife? What if I pull my marriage and family apart and then find guys really aren't my thing?

    You are all so supportive. I have let only a few people in on this turmoil, but they are helpful. None of them are friends of both my wife and me, just my personal friends.

    Thanks for listening.
     
  2. Jim1454

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,284
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Toronto
    Hi there and welcome to EC! You've come to the right place for sure.

    If you've been reading here for a month or so, then you've read about many of the stories that are similar to yours. It is amazing how many of us managed to stifle or deny what we were really thinking and feeling growing up so that we could conform or do what we thought others wanted us to do.

    Your wife has sort of nailed it - you potentially have something new and exciting and liberating to look forward to - and she doesn't. So you'll have to be sensitive to that. At the same time, if she wasn't happy with your marriage and she put up with it for years, that's her problem really - not yours.

    I think it is possible to know who you are attracted to without cheating. You need to open your mind up to the possibilities and see where your mind goes. You don't need to get physical with someone. You've already experienced being 'swept away' by another man - that says a lot.

    The question really does come down to how far are you willing to go - how much are you willing to invest in a new life. Many of us have found that true happiness came with being honest with ourselves and giving ourselves the opportunity to live a life true to ourselves. And that meant leaving our wives (or husbands). And that is painful for everone - no doubt. But it doesn't mean the end. It is a change.

    I was convinced that I was 'ruining' the lives of my wife and kids. But I didn't. She moved on and got remarried. She seems to be living the life that she wants to live - and apparently has found someone who loves her and who she can love. My kids are OK and have adjusted to their new reality - and they are quite young. I would think that your adult kids would be able to understand this even better - and wouldn't stop seeing you - as long as you're respectful and supportive of their mother.

    It really depends on you - and what you want to make of it.
     
  3. Choirboy

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    427
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Oh, my. A huge chunk of your first paragraph is me. No alcoholic father or physically abusive household, at least no more so than someone my age, but the rest is very familiar. Age 52, married 20 years, kids are 13 and 16, repressed Catholic family (we used to laugh at the wedding picture of Mom and Dad kissing, because it wasn't something we ever saw in real life!). No adolescent exploration (at least, not with anyone else....), one desperate crush on a college roommate that ended up being very one-sided, and finally got swept off my feet at age 29 by the then-married woman that I finally did get together with.

    My lightning bolt hit after a series of major events in my life left me thinking clearly for the first time in years, and the realization hit me pretty quickly that I was gay, my marriage was unhappy, and I needed to figure out what the hell to do.

    I did tell a couple trusted people fairly soon, and eventually came out to my wife and oldest daughter last September, and the youngest a few weeks ago. My wife is dependent enough on me that she didn't ask or an immediate divorce, as some do, and we've been slowly adjusting. Well, I have largely been adjusting to the fact that she is NOT adjusting, but that is beginning to change. Her assumption is that I will find someone and dump her, and the truth is I HAVE found someone, but am trying to do the right thing for the family, so I'm tying up a whole lot of loose ends first.

    So that's my story. So, how do YOU feel about the possibility of such a huge shift in your life? One thing I asked myself while I was trying to decide what to do was, suppose my wife died tomorrow. After a decent period of time, would I want to date women or men? It helps to detach from your own emotions if you can, and try to look at yourself objectively as possible. It came as a bit of a surprise--well, maybe not--to realize that I wouldn't have the slightest interest in dating another woman, ever, but a man, certainly. In your case, you worry that guys "might not be your thing". Is that based on anything besides lack of experience? Or the pressure you feel about your marriage and status quo, or fears about what will become of you? Probably "all of the above".

    I can tell you that if you fantasize about guys and have little or no interest in women (and haven't for years), chances are good that your attraction to guys is not something that will just dry up and turn to dust because you really weren't into them after all. What you do about it really has to come from inside of you. I knew pretty clearly that my marriage was unhappy and I was starved for love and affection, in part because I just didn't have the energy to fake it with her anymore. The sense of longing really override the potential loss. I don't want to sound like some sex-crazed guy who was desperate to bang a guy, because that wasn't the case. I just realized how much I wanted to love someone and share my whole self with them--with HIM--and it just wasn't something that could happen with my wife, no matter how things might have improved between us.

    There is risk. I knew my wife and children well enough to predict reasonably well what their reactions would be, and for the most part I was right on the money. Other guys have had a much rougher time. The first step is to face things as honestly as possible, and make sure that you have the strength to accept the outcome. Keep talking to your therapist on that one. Remember, too, that this is not something you "did to your wife", even though she may well interpret it that way. Chances are good that she has been dissatisfied for a while but chose to ignore the problems for reasons of her own. Think about you might have to gain by coming out, slowly and cautiously, if you DO decide that guys are your thing. In my case, I just wanted to be honest and real and not have to check every move I made and everything I said, and I made that clear to her.

    There aren't any easy answers, and I fear I'm rambling and confusing you all the more! In the end, it comes down to just a couple things. Love yourself enough to decide how you will be the happiest, most well-adjusted man you can be; and love and trust your wife and children enough to accept that in the end, you are not rejecting them, but you can be a better person with them if you're not hiding big chunks of yourself from them. Hope the brain dump didn't scare you off. Many of us have been where you are. We care, and we're listening.
     
  4. StillAround

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Washington State
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    This.

    So I'm 69, married twice (this time for 25 years), no kids. Knew I was gay, and yet denied it, since I was 13. (Don't ask me how the human mind can do this. If you've been lurking around here, though, you've seen lots of stories like mine.)

    Mid-life crisis of sorts? Maybe. But if it were just that, maybe you'd want to go join a commune, buy a sports car, trade in your wife for two 30-year-olds. But no, you're thinking of men... In my case, it was a mid-life crisis of sorts. (I'm redefining what "mid-life" means for me.) For me, it was the crisis of knowing that I was gay, and that I wanted to live openly, with all defenses down, before I die.

    I too had an alcoholic dad, barely functioning in his later years, who took out his deep unhappiness verbally and emotionally on my mom, my sister, and me. He was never physical, but I don't know that that mattered much. He was emotionally unavailable, and critical and judgmental in the extreme. And I was raised an orthodox Jew, so I know about guilt and repression.

    I have had sex with only two people in my life, and I married both of them. And yet, I've always known, somewhere deep inside me, that I was gay, that my fantasies were of men, not of women. As said so well above, you don't need to experiment to figure this out.

    Have you looked for support groups for gay married men in your area? These groups are more common than you think. Or just google "LGBT Support near *****." Being around other LGBT folks and just talking openly about yourself and your doubts will help you think more clearly about who you are and about what's important to you.

    For me, just walking down the street hand in hand with another man out of simple affection was all the confirmation I needed about my sexuality.

    And, as choirboy said, many of have been, or still are, where you are now. We all care, and we're all listening. Feel free to post on my wall if you like. I'm always happy to talk and listen. (*hug*)
     
  5. Horizon55

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada East
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Well, thank you all. Your responses were what I expected. Gentle questioning, gentle support, but encouragement to find my own path as hard as it seems.

    Last night the conversation opened a bit again but no willingness to go at sexuality topic just yet. Just my aloofness, depression, tearfulness, lack of confidence, etc etc. I'm off to my GP today (who knows about my struggle) and my wife asked if I wanted her to come. I said no and then got berated for not thanking her for showing support. She said she didn't want to be used or taken for granted in all of this. I'm just barely keeping my head above water let lone using anyone, I think.

    Later, in bed I said I thought it would be nice to just hold each other. She asked if I ever thought of her feelings when I said stuff like that. That she wanted more than holding and my comment made things hard for her. Did I ever think about her? I actually think about her all the time…in fact, thinking about her is the main reason I'm stuck.

    Oh my….
     
  6. Choirboy

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    427
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    It was very tough when I began to realize her that I still loved my wife, but really wasn't capable of loving her in the way that she expected her husband should. And even tougher when I started to realize that I myself still wanted very much to be physical with someone, but she would never be what I needed. Calling it an "adjustment" is a vast understatement; it's more like a great tectonic shift that you are at the epicenter of. Or like a long drive to an amazing resort, through desert and mountains and rough terrain, in a car with no air conditioning, no heat and bad shocks. The destination really IS worth it once you get there, but the ride is hell, and all you can do is keep moving until you're past it. We're all riding shotgun with you, though, so floor it and we'll be here for you.
     
  7. Horizon55

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada East
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Thank you…. I'm not yet ready to have my foot 'pedal to the metal' but the foot is at least on the pedal! However, I do like the notion of full speed ahead.
    And thanks to Jim1454, I am speeding much more time expanding my mind, thoughts and feelings about men really for the first time in my life. It both scares me and excites me. One close friend who knows expressed it so wonderfully to me when he said:'...this is a time where you may stretch the limits of what your life has felt like and been like up until now. I imagine it will be filled with beauty…"
    Such hope.

    I'm spending most of my time building a growing belief in me, who i am, that I am worthy and that what constitutes me is not something that is broken (as my wife has said).
    As that gets stronger, I will have the courage to push down on that pedal.
     
  8. Chip

    Board Member Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    4,750
    Location:
    northern CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    If you haven't already, get yourself a copy of Joe Kort's wonderful "Ten Smart Things Gay Men Can Do to Find Real Love" (which has little to do with finding real love, and everything to do with undertanding yourself.) There are several chapters in there that address the special issues of heterosexually married gay men that I think you'll find helpful.

    One of the key points he makes, after 25 years as a therapist working with LGBT people, is that in nearly every case, once the initial shock/anger wears off, the wife almost always realizes that she knew, or should have known, because there were signs. And once she can own that, then she has to take some responsibility for the whole situation and the blame doesn't rest solely on you. That's a powerful understanding that really changes the dynamic.

    Also, remember the 5 stages of loss (denial-anger-bargaining-grief-acceptance) and realize that she's really just starting to go through them, while you're a lot farther along. (A lot of what you say sounds like "bargaining", which would be typical at this stage.)

    It sounds like you're making great strides. There's no huge rush here, the important thing is for both of you to do your best to be thoughtful of each other... not an easy thing to do when emotions are high, but Kort's book may be some help in that regard.
     
  9. Horizon55

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada East
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Thanks Chip… I will read Joe Kort's book.

    But, persistently, I ask myself how do I know enough about me to confidently tell my wife I am gay, if I have had no exploration of it other than in my head. Love to hear more on this from those who've been there.

    Thanks again to all.
     
  10. Al123

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2012
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Read Joe Kort's book.

    No one can tell you if you are gay except yourself, but you don't have to have sex to know.

    What was a real wake up call for me was reading Joe Kort's chapter on coming out and absolutely falling apart in tears with grief and emotions that I had bottled up inside. I don't think your average heterosexual would have the same emotional response. For me that was a confirming clue.

    In general I find that my fear of the unknown and fear of consequences (ie hurting my family) have kept me going forward at a pretty slow pace. I do know that coming out to my wife, wile extremely painful and scary, brought a huge sense of relief.

    The bargaining state is a b*tch, and I know that I am still in it.
     
  11. 741852963

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    1,522
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm probably not the best to advise as I have my own problems in life, but still.

    Firstly I think you need to be sure of your preference, it might not be a binary straight v gay and it might take time to do this. Like others said you don't have to go out and have sex to know (i'm a virgin on both sides of the field but I know my preferences!), its just about thinking about it deeper.

    Secondly, if you do decide your sexuality lies more with men you are probably going to have to be honest with your wife on this. This will probably be a very painful process and I don't think anyone envies your position. I think the best thing would be to see everything through your wife's perspective; really empathize with her as it is likely the hardest thing she will face in life too. She and others will likely see you as being selfish, which through their eyes (and limited experiences) is quite understandable although not necessarily true (as you might have been pushed by society into a certain mould).

    In terms of where you'll go from there who knows. But you could still have a good platonic relationship provided your wife is OK. You can still be there to support here emotionally, and be there for the kids. And you can still be a good father, that doesn't have to change.
     
  12. Horizon55

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada East
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Saw my therapist today again. (I've been seeing one for almost 2 years and that's how all of this broke open in me and out loud). I'm holding back on the really hard conversation with my wife in hopes that she would have support in place before I 'break' the news of what I'm working on. She thinks I'm mostly depressed in a late-mid life crisis and doesn't know that the biggest part of this for me is sorting out the sexuality. I really wanted her to have a support system before that conversation opens bigger. She keeps saying she can't find someone who she can connect with. So, I keep waiting to have the hard conversation and in the meantime we are both in misery. Not sure I can keep putting us both thru this much longer waiting for that support system to materialize. I've also said it's ok from my point of view if she shares with a friend or two hers and my struggle, but she says it's too private to share.
    I want her to have that safety net before it gets really hard.
    Any advice guys????
     
  13. Choirboy

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,672
    Likes Received:
    427
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I seem to have done everything kind of backwards--figured it out on my own, checked out divorce options thinking I'd just do that, then decided to tell her the truth, then finally saw a therapist 6 months later--plus other surprising developments!

    The biggest part of this whole process, journey, clusterf**k, whatever, is figuring out in your own head where you want to go with the realization that you're gay, because although the ripple effect (well, tsunami effect, really) hits your whole family, it starts with you. When I told my wife, I made several things clear to her. One was that I was not telling her this to hurt her or to have an excuse for leaving her, and another was that I didn't have anyone waiting in the wings that I was seeing on the side while we were still together. She did feel very upset that I had people I could talk to--namely, the co-workers I had already told--whereas she felt very isolated. It was as if I stepped out of the closet and pushed her into it in my place.

    I suggested that she see a therapist so she would have someone to talk to. I also eventually suggested the Straight Spouse Network, which has some good resources (although I had to psych myself into that one because the message board is kind of venomous at times, and while I emailed her the link, I don't think she's ever actually visited it). And I did suggest that she share the news with a couple close friends of hers, although she hasn't done that yet.

    As I've become more secure with knowing I'm gay (bordering on almost reckless at times!), I have made it clear to her that I really don't care who finds out, and she is welcome to talk to absolutely anyone about it. So far she's only confided in a therapist neighbor, no one else. Point is, you can (and should) spend time thinking about a support network for her, but unless she actually wants to reach out, it will go unused. There is never going to be a really good time to tell her, and her reaction could be anything from filing for divorce 2 weeks later, to lingering around in limbo forever to avoid losing the meal ticket. So be kind, give a few suggestions (which your own therapist may be able to provide), but it may not be practical to go on indefinite hold looking for what you think is the best time to tell her.

    There's a very common thread that runs through a lot of us later-in-life types, and that is that we tend to worry about everyone around us and want everything to be perfect for them. It's very noble and very loving, but it's a little unrealistic, and completely ignores our own needs. (Yeah, says the guy who is trying to pay down bills, while his wife still works part time and keeps herself too busy with volunteer work to even pick up after herself! Pot, meet kettle.) Be noble, be loving, yes; but in the end, this really needs to start out as your personal journey, when the time is right for you, not her. It sounds harsh, and to some degree it is. But she is every bit as much an adult as you are, and you have shouldered the emotional load of this secret for decades. It won't be easy for her, but she will adjust one way or another. The spouses of closet gays generally have their own clutter in the attic that led to them marrying someone in the closet, and you can't fix that--only they can.
     
  14. StillAround

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Washington State
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I'm right there with you. My wife is deeply depressed, sometimes so much so that she's thought of ending her life from time to time (and very recently, in fact, because of my coming out to her). And I waited so long because I have been her only support system. If not for that, I probably would have come out several years ago.

    She still has no other friends, and she refuses to see her therapist again. I know all that sounds desperate, but it doesn't really feel desperate to me. Because she has realized, finally, that regardless of the fact that I'm gay, she needs to make a life of her own. She would have to even if we were to stay together, because she has no joy in her life. And for her to have joy, she needs to change.

    This is hard stuff. The two of us are on a roller coaster, with up days and really hard down days. But the only way is forward.

    If you are indeed gay (and it sounds like you are), trying to suppress your sexuality will be harmful not only to you, but to your wife as well, because you simply won't be emotionally available to her. I've found that, since coming out to my wife 10 weeks ago, I am more emotionally available to her than I have been in perhaps 20 years. And she knows that.

    So I try to reassure her. I tell her that we're not ending a relationship--that we're redefining it. I don't ever want to not be in her life, and she knows that. I assure her that, even though we'll probably separate in less than a year, I will continue to support her emotionally and financially. And that calms her. But the rest of her battle is hers, and finally, she knows that. I can't be everything to her, but I can be something meaningful to her. And the rest is up to her.

    Why have I just told you all this... I don't know, maybe just to tell you that others here are on the same journey with you, all at different stages. And that there are good days ahead.

    You need to believe that, and just keep moving forward at whatever pace feels comfortable to you.


    (*hug*) /Ed.
     
  15. Horizon55

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada East
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Thanks guys.

    Putting others first is, I guess, what I've been doing although not knowingly. I never gave myself the time or opportunity to really feel what I am now…like looking at men and letting that roll over me with pleasure (and desire!)…that's a new experience that feels very selfish but exciting.

    My wife has already labelled me as selfish and self centred in my depressive mood.That I am not in touch with her feelings at all nor her experience..even thought we've not yet had the 'big reveal' conversation about what I'm truly feeling.

    We had 3 couples over for dinner last night and I wanted to sit and cry the whole time about my loss of them. Two of the men have become close friends for me but once the 'reveal' happens, evenings of food, laughter, wine and such personal sharing with them will be done. That makes me so sad… and actually stops me from having the hard conversations.

    On top of that my wife cared for me reply yesterday morning when I spent 2 hours crying and ruled up on our basement couch. As we went to bed she said, "I adore you"!.. OMG!

    How can I do this to her?
     
  16. Horizon55

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada East
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    oops , a couple of typos:
    My wife 'deeply' cared for me when I spent 2 hours crying and 'curled' up on the couch.

    I also wanted to say re drugs (antidepressants): I just came of 3 weeks of Effexor that, for me, sucked any sexual interest out of me and rendered me both disinterested and incapable. My GP had put me on this. My therapist said the timing was terrible as it was just when I needed to feel that the most to understand myself it was turned off. I'm recharging now (on a different drug without that side effect)… but in reality I don't think the solution is in the drug at all. Right?
     
  17. Yossarian

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    You aren't "doing this to her" if you tell her why you are depressed. You are sharing with her WHY you are depressed. That you have discovered something about yourself, not that you have decided to "turn gay" because you are bored with her and are trying to dump her, and show her that she is an unappealing woman who doesn't turn you on. You are telling her that this is not something that you wanted to be true, but you have recently realized that it IS true and that it is the explanation for the internal stress that is causing your depression, whether you like it or not. You are sharing this information with her so that she understands what your problem has been so that she can help you deal with it and make an informed decision about how she wants to deal with it, and whether she wants to deal with it or not, and change her own life trajectory in the face of this discovered reality.

    This will all come out better when both of you start working together to decide what you each want to do. There will be ups and downs, and maybe disagreement about what the other of you wants to do, but hiding the truth from her and being depressed all the time is not going to make either of you happy, and you can't seem to keep swallowing this news by yourself and ignoring it without becoming depressed, so you need to give her the information she needs to resolve what the two of you are going to do.

    It will all work out, and you will both survive and be happier, whatever the outcome.
     
  18. Horizon55

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada East
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    This may come out as a double reply.. not sure what I did (sorry if it does).

    Having not yet come out, these are my fears too. What if life is really worse outside that damn closet? That is, all my friends lost, family rejection, wife who hates me, financial challenges and little hope of finding someone new at age 58? These fears are paralyzing.

    Two things this past week have helped me try to counter balance that:

    1.the thought, as Spaceman says, that the way I feel right now is not a good way to live the rest of my life. I am depressed, lonely in the midst of friends and feeling unfulfilled and

    2.courage. As I left my therapist appointment this week, who is a much younger, heterosexual man, said to me: I admire your courage so much to be doing what you are at this stage of your life. I only hope I have such courage to take hold of my life and be able to make change for such important things when I am your age.
    I cried.
     
  19. StillAround

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Washington State
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Horizon,

    There's so much in your posts to respond to...

    So many of us have been in just this place. I have always been a caregiver. I've sublimated my own desires to the needs of others, seeking affirmation and acceptance and the feeling that I can do good in the world despite my sexuality. But that has always been the problem. Because we are not broken; we're just gay. And we can do good in the world, gay or not. We can have friends, gay or not. We can find a way to be alone from time to time, at ease with ourselves, gay or not. And sometimes, we can do good in the world because we're gay. We're so much more aware of what heterosexual privilege is and what it grants us if only we could stay closeted. And so we can work to help make the world around us more sensitive to the issues. Hopefully, because we've lived with the repression that comes with being an irrationally hated minority, maybe it gives us more sensitivity to other forms of privilege--male privilege, white privilege, wealth privilege, status privilege.

    As for a new experience feeling very selfish, don't confuse "selfish" with simply granting yourself the right to an authentic, fulfilling life. That's not selfish--it's a profoundly healthy thing to do. How can you love others if you can't love yourself? How can you feel compassion/empathy for others if you can't grant it to yourself. We're all imperfect--it's a fundamental fact of being human. We are all, after all, animals, with sentience tacked on as a recent evolutionary development. But that very imperfection is what gives us the capacity to feel, to love, to experience joy. So, not selfish--just human

    Well, in a way, she's absolutely right. Your depression makes you emotionally unavailable to your wife. And your knowledge of your sexuality has probably made you emotionally unavailable for a long time as well. The only way out of the dilemma, I think, is to have the 'big reveal' conversation. Your wife will be hurt; there will be very hard times ahead for both of you. But if you still love each other, she'll eventually realize that this isn't her fault in some way. She'll realize that you went into your marriage with the best of intentions, and that you tried to be the best husband to her that you could be. And eventually, you'll let go of the guilt and learn to deal with the shame you feel (That's what your therapist and your friends here on EC are for.) And when you come clean, you may feel as some of us here have felt--that, in some fundamental, non-sexual way, you and your wife will feel closer to one another than you have been for a long time. So work with your therapist on the best way to move forward, and when you're ready, take that frightening step off the ledge you've been living on for a long, long time.

    How do you know that will be the end result? In any case, how personal can the sharing be if they don't really know who you are?

    Take what you said above to your therapist, and explore this idea: What are you doing to her now? How painful do you think your depression and emotional unavailability are to her now? What is the right thing to do?

    I agree with your therapist. Effexor is a powerful drug with serious side effects. There are much gentler SSRI inhibitors to treat depression and anxiety. I've been on one of them for years.

    As for whether the solution is in a pill... It depends on whether your depression is situational or chronic. If it's situational, maybe meds will just help you get through your rough patch, and you'll stop using them when you feel better. If it's chronic, maybe you'll be on meds for a long time. But keeping busy, exercising (even just walking for 30 minutes a day), talking to friends, finding connections to people, can help a lot.

    It may feel worse outside the closet for a while. It might help to try to build a support system in advance (or at the same time). I know the fears are paralyzing--they paralyzed me for the last 4 1/2 years. I mean, I'm 69. And I can only hope you'll find what I found when my paralysis was finally overcome by my depression and fear. That my friends were not lost. That my wife doesn't hate me (although she is clearly grieving). That I have found new friends who know me for who I am and accept me. That I may even have cause to hope I'll find someone new.

    But people like us, coming out this late in life, are likely to be damaged in so many ways. And we need to be patient with ourselves and with others.

    Spaceman is so right! And your therapist is so wise. Courage, from the original Latin, means "speaking the truth from your heart." And that's what you're trying to do. It's not selfish. It's quintessentially human, in the finest sense.

    Crying at that moment was exactly the right thing to do. It's a moment of letting your heart and your gut speak at last. It's such a release of the deepest part of you, the part you haven't let yourself listen to for most of your life.

    (*hug*)
     
  20. Horizon55

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada East
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Wow, Stillaround, thank you for that long and thoughtful reply. I am hugely grateful for you pulling the pieces apart.
    I have the hardest time, I think, understanding the difference between realizing the authentic me… that is, giving myself permission to feel who I am and let it just settle in to my bones, and feeing very self-centred. I really appreciate your thoughts on that. I'm curious about others feelings on that too. It seems to be one of the harder parts of this for me right now.