...I am terrified that somehow I've made a terrible mistake in my life in coming out. Not only have I hurt my family, but I feel as though I have entered a world that is morally bankrupt. I feel alone in my faith and have chosen a life that at this age will doom me to be alone and lonely. Since I have come out in January, I have lost my family, my church, met few gay men of faith apart my rector and his partner, and become one of two single men in a small circle or partnered friends. I have made aquaintances at a local pub, which having been worse for drink, I had the opportunity to allowed to be talked into a trip to the local gay baths, which was akin to visiting the 7th ring of Hell in Dante's Inferno. I don't know what I was expecting. divorce is set Sex, without any real intimacy, and desperation was what I observed. I was too afraid to partake in the "delights" for fear of disease and sweated out the alcohol in the the steam room. So what do I do. My divorce is set for the papers to be signed and filed and I move out into a house I shall share with a roommate as I enter late middle-age. Somehow this doesn't feel like another dip in the emotional rollercoaster. Please I need help and advice.
Sorry you are going through a tough time. I don't really have much advice as what you describe are the exact reasons I am still with my wife. So, idk maybe after time when things settle down it won't be as bad? Maybe if you can find some other support groups or clubs? I joined a gay hikers group although they didn't have any hikes yet. Is there a gay community center near you? I hope things will improve for you, just hang on there
Tim, I'm not a man of your faith, I am sure, but I am praying for you. I am positive there are many men out there, but the task of finding them is sure to be tedious and difficult. They are closeted at worst and discrete at best. Uncovering members of a muted society is a tough chore. You will need time and perseverance, and I'm sure it will seem lonely at times, but determination, intent, patience and hope will win out. Ask for your desires, believing, and they will be given unto you (that won't be an exact quote, but I think you probably know it exactly). Love and blessings, Ted
Gay men of morals are not as rare as we are led to believe by the predominant gay culture. The problem is that the gay men with morals are not readily found in the predominant gay culture. Makes sense. Guys like you and I are not in the hookup market, so why bother with gay clubs and baths. Here's the thing, though. You came out to be honest with yourself and your family. That is much bigger than whether you have a guy waiting in the wings the day after the divorce is final. I know when the time is right, there will be someone who is looking for the same thing you are, just be prepared to step out of your comfort zone and see him where he is. I will bet he steps out of his own comfort zone to get there with you. (*hug*)
Sorry to hear you're in a tough spot Tim. I often struggle with the same feeling of "oh shit, what have I done?" It helps me to remember how I felt before I came out. I was miserable, depressed, lonely and hated myself for living a lie. I imagine you felt much the same. Coming out has by no means been a magic bullet to cure my problems. As you know, it creates a slew of big, scary issues and life changes. But I still believe it's the only path that can lead to a happy future. As for meeting guys, I can tell you from experience that the good ones are out there. I never expected to find a guy with serious relationship potential at this stage, but I have. Believe it or not, we met on one of the gay cell phone apps. We've been dating exclusively for 6 weeks and I can't say how long it will last, but I know we are enjoying our time together. He's kind, educated and understanding of my situation. He's been fully out since his late teens and completely accepted being gay long ago. Seeing how comfortable he is with himself and how he lives his life unfiltered has been really inspirational. So don't let the doubts and second guessing overwhelm you. You've taken the most courageous step of your life and should be proud of your bravery. You're in the thick of the worst of it right now, but difficult situations and emotions that seem permanent almost always end up being temporary. Time does heal and it does get better.
Hello, if it helps at all i think everyone feels the same way as you when they are going through the process of coming out. It is hard being gay and this is something that I think only other gay people can understand. It's all very well having equal rights and gay marriage but people still need to meet their first partner, tell people they are gay, accept it for themselves and make the commitment to having a different life from everyone else. Because no matter how accepting society, family, church etc is then you are still saying you need to live your life differently to the hetrosexual norm. This is why gay bars, cafe's, groups are still so important to have. We can't start the process of forming relationships if we don't know another gay person. this is true if you have been out for 2 months or 20 years, in my opinion gay people need to have other gay people in their lives even if it is just as friends and when you don't have that the loneliness is crushing. I often have my straight friends tell me how brave I am for going on holiday by myself, for going to groups by myself but I don't think I am brave I just know I don't have any choice. If I want to meet someone then I can't go out with straight people all the time. Try to make gay friends and not worry about the sex, I know its difficult and frustrating, I'm desperate to meet someone and finally have sex myself so I do understand how difficult things can be. Also keep talking to gay people on this site because however well meaning straight people are they really don't understand what it is like to be gay.
Having not yet come out, these are my fears too. What if life is really worse outside that damn closet? That is, all my friends lost, family rejection, wife who hates me, financial challenges and little hope of finding someone new at age 58? These fears are paralyzing. Two things this past week have helped me try to counter balance that: 1.the thought, as Spaceman says, that the way I feel right now is not a good way to live the rest of my life. I am depressed, lonely in the midst of friends and feeling unfulfilled and 2.courage. As I left my therapist appointment this week, who is a much younger, heterosexual man, said to me: I admire your courage so much to be doing what you are at this stage of your life. I only hope I have such courage to take hold of my life and be able to make change for such important things when I am your age. I cried.
I think that for us "later in life" types, actually accepting ourselves as gay really isn't the tough part of our journey. It's not like we haven't had clues over the years, after all--crushes on schoolmates, maybe a little experimentation of one kind or another, watching gay porn, problems of one kind or another with intimacy with our wives. The tough part is that very often one of the things that pushed us into the closet in the first place was rejecting what we saw as they stereotypes of gay "culture"--the hookups, the partying, the substance abuse etc. Now, after years of "safe" but passionless marriages, we decide to be honest with ourselves, only to be slapped in the face with the same old issues that made marriage seem so very safe in the first place. We are kind, caring people who want to love and be loved. My trip into the closet had a lot more to do with wanting the acceptance of others than my own self-acceptance, although over the years it turned into many varieties of denial and hiding. I know I have become terribly dependent on my straight marriage. I won't say dependent on my wife; our situations are all unique, and in mine, she has far more to lose than I do, and in some ways we are exchanging spots in the closet. But in general, our marriages give us a safe place where we don't have to face all those fears and stereotypes that cloud our judgement. Calling ourselves gay isn't much of a challenge. Being prepared to stand on our own, alone, for who we are--that's a lot scarier. For most of us, the closet was a huge safety net that kept us from having to risk anything. Think about the people you've come to know here. There are an awful lot of us who would probably qualify as pretty damn boring. Look at me--same job for almost 20 years, organist for close to 30 years in the church I've been at for over 40 years. I'm as exciting as a U.S. savings bond, and while there's a long-hidden adventurous part of me that wonders what a hookup or something would be like, the fact is that being pawed by someone I didn't know and didn't care about would probably make me physically sick. It's not how I'm wired deep down. But really, Tim, having your own code and sense of honesty can be a hugely attractive thing. It's rare and beautiful. The hard part is convincing yourself of that, and being willing to be open and comfortable with yourself--and potentially ONLY with yourself--for awhile. If coming out is about trading in your straight spouse for a gay one, you'll be anxious and unhappy. If it's about just learning who you are and being the person you never let yourself be, you will get more and more secure, and you will find that there are a lot of men out there who share your beliefs and principles. We're here; we're just as quiet and unassuming as you are, so you have to make your own personal strength and integrity be the beacon that people see. And then amazing things can happen. John
Listen to what Molly is saying. No matter how awkward it might seem at first, you need to make contact with other gay people to generate a network of understanding friends. I don't think that a bathhouse is probably the best place to do this, but there are other types of places where you can meet people, in local LGBT groups, in gyms, in school settings such as community education night courses, online with gay-oriented dating services or interest groups, in gay-friendly churches if you are religious. It will always be harder simply because of the numbers of opportunities being smaller, but keep in mind that you only need to find ONE special person to have a relationship, and once you are officially publicly "out", you are free to advertise your interests, making it easier for other gay men to find YOU, so you won't have to do all the work yourself.
Believe me, I know how you feel! It's been just over 2 months since I came out. And it was the fear of being alone, of loneliness (2 different things), the fear of the loss of community, and of the guilt I would feel in the pain I would inflict on my wife. I reached a tipping point, though--a point where staying in the closet became more painful than leaving it. And so I opened the door and stepped into the light. So far, Tim, only one of my fears has been realized, and that is the pain I inflicted on my wife of 25 years. But we've talked a lot in these two months as she's struggled with what this means for her life going forward (or if she even wants to have a life--and I mean that seriously). She's been in pain for a long time, and a lot of it has nothing to do with me. But my emotional unavailability has certainly added to the pain, and that wasn't going to change until I accepted and admitted who I am. My friends remain my friends, some more closely so than ever. I do not fear living alone, at last, because I am living in my own skin. I am comfortable with myself. And I've worked hard the last two months to find a community of support. Part of it is here on EC, part of it is with a very good therapist, part with a support group. And I'm making friends, people I can reach out to when I'm down or when I'm happy, people who will reach out to me in friendship and support. I'll come back to my story in a moment... But you live in or near Rochester, NY, right? Before responding here, I did a quick Google search for "LGBT Support near Rochester, NY." There's a ton of stuff going on in your area! And support groups can be so great! Mine meets every week. A few of us go out to dinner before the meeting and on a bit of a sedate pub crawl after the meeting. But the thing about going to a gay bar with people who are there to support you is so different from walking into a gay bar looking to hook up with someone. So, have you explored some of those resources? What about volunteering at an LGBT hotline, or teen homeless shelter, or an AIDS-related support group? You're way more likely to find friends in those places than in some hookup joint. Because friendship, where you can be yourself, share your stories, find comfort and laughter, is so much the right thing to look for. I have hope that the sex would be great, and I have my fantasies--and, who knows, someday I may get to live them out. But in the meantime, the friends I'm making, here on EC, and in a live support group, have been such a help to me! They've given me the confidence that, even though the water is rough right now, sunshine and calm waters do lie ahead. Being gay is about so much more than sex. And those are the people you need to look for first. This is a storm, Tim, not a permanent condition. It will pass. Not much more I want to say in a public forum... We'll talk more, soon. (*hug*)
Hi Tim. I would say a very small proportion of gay men get there kicks at a bath house. Very few. So going there wasn't likely going to suit you. It certainly wouldn't suit me. I haven't read everyone elses response - which I'm sure were helpful. All I will say is that you shouldn't lose hope. You shouldn't stay in a marriage that isn't fulfilling for you or for your wife. Regardless of whether or not you expect to find someone new. But I really do believe that you will find someone new. I did - I found my soulmate I'm sure. You've only just started out on this new journey - so give it time.
Hey Tim. Take your time. I am learning that it's like having a two track life - the old one that you still need to deal with, and the new one that you now need to deal with. Both of them very different and demanding for very different reasons. I struggle with the guilt of leaving - spending time with the kids and at times, my wife, reminds me that it wasn't all misery and that there were good times too. But the ever present desire and pressing demands inside me meant that it was only a matter of time before we began to see cracks and it would have been down to me 'changing' and becoming irritable and impatient or annoyed with her or the kids and then my 'unreasonable behaviour' would probably be the cause of our break up. I have days where it's really dark - where I see no real prospect of being with a man that I love and who loves me equally in return. Sure, there's a guy in my life just now but I'm not really sure what 'we' are. I'm going with the flow just now and will see where it takes me. But, I'm equally conscious that it might take me nowhere and I am exploring local groups and online groups that I can start to make contacts with. To broaden my circle of gay friends and make sure that if he and me don't work out or develop into something serious, I have a safety net there that I can still be involved with. It's just hard breaking out there. Please keep faith in yourself. You have come such a long way, and taken such massive life changing decisions, like many of us, that you have to press on and make the decisions now that will help you get to the life you want to have.
Tim, you came out in January and we're now 7th April and you've been through (and are still going through an awful lot). The dust is still flying and needs a bit of time to settle, so give yourself a break fella. I mean that in the kindest way as you are putting yourself under a lot of pressure right now. I think you made a mistake going to the baths, but we all make mistakes. I've made plenty in my time and I have my share of regrets, but I've tried to learn from them. The past has gone and I can only live in the present and look to the future. Sometimes that's scary and that's where my own faith comes in. There are gay men out there who have a strong moral compass, some Christian, some not. My faith is important to me, I'd go as far as saying it sustained me through some personal doubts and crises of confidence and I hope yours can do the same. I'll pray it will. I found an Inclusive Church where I have been made to feel welcome and valued and there are groups for Lesbian and Gay Christians of various denominations in most countries - these might be worth looking at when you are ready. This is all new territory and you need to look around and see what works best for you. You will have bad days and moments of doubt and that's only natural, but don't beat yourself up too much. Talking is good.
I want to thank all of you for you kind words, well wishes, and prayers. Going to the baths was a huge mistake. There's a part of me that knew from the get go that it would be a mistake, and yet there was a part that was intriguing. A big part of why I allowed such a compromise is as follows: 1. I'm a diabetic, usually pretty careful about the alcohol he consumes. 2. I ended up having a liquid dinner...big no no...particularly for me. 3. I was beyond the tipping point when subject arose. 4. I like to be a good sport so I went along for the ride, because I had no filters at that point. When I posted yesterday I was filled with little self-respect and a lot of self-doubt and self-loathing...and not a little hungover and ill for having abused my body. I'm not an alcoholic, but I almost sought out an AA meeting, because clearly I binged. I should have gone to church in the morning, but was caught up in feeling sorry for myself. If anyone knows the feeling, it's the "If I can't love me, then why should God" or even better "I'm too sinful"...old traps of mine. Couple that with what have been growing fears for the future and a once loving wife who now prefers e-mail to conversation, like I was some bothersome underling at work, and you get an E ticket for the depression downhill slalom. I see my therapist Friday fortunately. Unfortunately, my rector is having problems of his own, being bipolar, and on leave until after Easter. I am very involved with the gay men's chorus and though a member of the Empire Bears, my ability right now to be active is limited by a religious retreat that meets on the same night as when they've meetings. I certainly could do some volunteer work once I settled and in my new digs. Another area of concern, adjusting to just a teacher's salary and moving in at late middle-age with a roommate. This will sound shallow, but I shall miss my 2,800 sq. ft. English "cottage" in a rather posh suburb for a rather shabby chic Victorian in a gay ghetto, a lot of perks being married to a successful executive. Then there's the issue of only seeing my kids every other weekend. I'll miss them most of all. Despite all this, I know I am doing the right thing. Why would I shackle someone I love deeply to a marriage lacking in the intimacy they deserve? My children need to know their father is gay, and live a life not fearing the "other", but embracing it. They also need to know their father is someone who lives honestly and with integrity, and is as proud of being gay as he is of being Scottish or a decent horseman. It will pass, and I thank you again for the reminders. I do try to live by the words of my signature. They, when I remember them, remind me to be brave and to take heart in the direction I have chosen to take my life. Fondly, Tim
You know... If your wife earns significantly more than you, there may be an opportunity for spousal support. If the roles were reversed, and she left you for a very valid reason like this, you would be obligated to pay her spousal support. It should work the other way around as well. You and your wife should have a similar standard of living so that your kids, no matter who they are with, have a similar standard of living. Something to think about... although I guess you said that your divorce is pretty much final. There is something to be said for 'trying anything once'. You've been to a bath house - and now don't need to do it again. It isn't something you should beat yourself up about it. And let me know if you ever make a road trip from Rochester to Toronto.
