1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Time to give up on therapy?

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by BMC77, Apr 7, 2014.

  1. BMC77

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    107
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I'm honestly wondering this. More accurately, is it time to give on up on trying to find therapy?

    Earlier today, I ran a search. It's been a while since I did this, plus my financial situation is slightly different now as for insurance than it was last time I searched. And wow! I found ONE place that does LGBT work AND accepts my current insurance. Except...well, take a look for yourself at a clipping from Psychology Today therapist directory website.

    Screenshot from 2014-04-07 18:47:48.png

    I am now contemplating e-mailing this therapist to find out just how the hell LGBT and LDS are in the least bit compatible. Or do they offer a service to help me overcome those troublesome attractions to other men?

    I give up. I just give up.
     
  2. Theron

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2014
    Messages:
    405
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    It can take a while to find a good therapist. It took me years of searching to find one.
     
  3. BMC77

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    107
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    :bang: :tears: :bang: :tears: :bang: :tears: :bang: :tears: :bang:

    Just what I both feared, and suspected.

    :bang: :tears: :bang: :tears: :bang: :tears: :bang: :tears: :bang:
     
  4. Chip

    Board Member Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    4,750
    Location:
    northern CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    It does take time, however here's one piece: The need for a therapist specializing in LGBT issues is grossly overblown. Nearly every therapist worth a crap is seeing LGBT clients these days because LGBT clientele is a pretty significant portion of the overall consumers of therapy. So you might, instead, find some therapists whose websites or descriptions sound interesting, call and talk, ask about their experience with LGBT clients, and approach it that way.

    The best therapist I ever saw (out of 4) was in her late 40s, a recent graduate (did a career change into psychology in her early 40s), had almost no experience with people coming out. She was insightful, intuitive, had great empathy skills, and was wonderful at helping me navigate the coming out process. As I've said to others many times, the specific LGBT experience comes up in a couple of small areas, almost everything else that LGBT populations have (with the exception of gender identity issues) are things that are common to almost everyone.

    Also... I have access to a small network of therapists, spread throughout the US, who work in the shame resilience field. If you PM me your location, I can check and see if there are any in your area.
     
  5. Horizon55

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada East
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    It has taken me 4 therapists to arrive at the one I have now who is amazing. I agree with Chip, specializing in LGBT is not a necessity. This guy I see is just good at not letting me get away with ignoring, denying my feelings and emotional side. I am very skilled at that after 58 years. In fact, it was his help in getting me to embrace my feelings and emotions that led me to letting an experience of men into my mind and gut. Then we both suddenly found there was a closet in my life that I was also denying. He has gotten me where I am by being skilled at helping me be me, regardless of my sexual orientation.

    Hang in… it can happen. I'm convinced. Ask around about just plain good therapists.
     
  6. biAnnika

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Northeastern US
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    There are also therapists who will do phone sessions...so it's not *absolutely* necessary that they be in your area or even State.
     
  7. BMC77

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    107
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    That is an interesting idea. One also wonders if some therapists might do something over the Internet, e.g. Skype.

    My one problem: I probably am limited in area because of insurance coverage issues. I'm pretty sure I can't cross state line, and I may even be forced to stay within my immediate area in the state.

    Oh, no...that last thought adds a new, special level to my depression. I had hoped to find something in a nearby city, but it occurs to me that might be out of service area. Maybe I can find someone in my county. He or she will also probably offer support services for cows and pigs, but I guess I can't be picky.
     
  8. Chip

    Board Member Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    4,750
    Location:
    northern CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Yes, in fact, I know a number of therapists who do Skype sessions.

    Have you looked at your plan to see what sort of "out of network" options it offers? Many plans will pay for out-of-network providers, but at a lower rate. So perhaps you could find the perfect therapist, negotiate a lower rate (therapy is totally a wheel-and-deal field) so that the out-of-network fee plus a contribution from you would make it work.
     
  9. BMC77

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    107
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    No, I haven't even considered out of network viability. For that matter, I probably should have started by seeing if doing ANYTHING is viable. I guess I wanted my glimmer of hope that I could do something...
     
  10. BlueSky224

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tel Aviv, Israel
    Wow.
    LDS? Practicing?

    One of my colleagues grew up Mormon, but he is no longer religious. He is a brilliant psychologist. In fact, he's especially talented when it comes to understanding repression, and he's definitely attentive to sexual orientation.

    There are plenty of good therapists in Western Washington. The psychologist I see is straight, he doesn't advertise anything about a specialization or being gay-friendly. But he's been endlessly helpful, and we share the same snarky sense of humor. He helped me get through some very rough times.

    One of my former colleagues is now in private practice. He is also an excellent psychologist. He's absolutely straight, but he sees plenty of gay clients. Again, he doesn't advertise this. He has a really clear understanding of issues pertaining to the closet, coming out, etc.

    Here's my advice on how to find someone:

    First, check to see if your insurance covers out-of-network options. The guy I see is out-of-network, but the cost differential is only $9.00. (When I called my insurance about in-network providers, they suggested two psychologists who I happen to supervise!)

    Next, do some web surfing to make sure that they have an appropriate philosophical orientation. Look for someone who specifically mentions cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT.) Stay clear of those who suggest healing through crystals, or that they specialize in children with Asperger's. You need someone who takes care of adults, and CBT is the mainstay of treatment.

    Then visit the Washington DOH website, and enter the name into the "Provider Credential Search" section. Make certain that the therapist of interest has a valid license, and no "uh-oh" information in their licensure record.

    There is a very wide spectrum of therapist types. I'm partial to clinical psychologists, both from personal and professional experience. But some insurance plans are insistent that you see a masters-prepared therapist, not a doctorally-prepared psychologist. In Washington, you're looking for the initials LMHC (licensed mental health counselor.)

    I don't usually recommend seeing a psychiatrist (MD or DO) or psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner (PMHNP, ARNP, or DNP). Their role tends to be much more in the realm of medication management. It's an important job, but you really need to develop a connection with a therapist. A handful of psychiatrists and NPs practice actual therapy, but they're a rare breed.

    Lastly, take a trial run. It's always okay to see a therapist once. Any good therapist knows to ask "how is this going?" and inquire if you feel comfortable enough to schedule a follow-up visit.

    There is plenty of hope. I spoke with two different mental health counselors this week about one of my patients. Both were bright, attentive, caring, and knowledgeable. And I supervise three phenomenal psychologists. They're straight, they don't advertise sexual orientation as a specialty, but they "get it." I hope that you can find someone as gifted as they are.
     
    #10 BlueSky224, Apr 8, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  11. Plushieluver

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Oh, my. What? I am so so sorry to hear that you can't accept your sexuality yet but, really, therapy is all a load of hooie. Honestly, there is no point you wasting your time with trying to convert yourself because, I'm sorry but it never really ever works. You'll still have feelings for men after the therapy and all the therapy will do to you is make you feel terrible because it will push you further and further inside the closet. Trust me, you do really not want this. It will mess up your mental health servilely. Your sexuality can't be changed, you were born this way. No matter who or what tells you they can change you. They really can't and therapy will be the worst thing to do. The therapists will just say random quotes from the bible or what ever or damn you for who you are. Please re-think this like you are because this will really hurt you.



    Other than therapy, you can try and find some support groups around. There are bound to be some that can seriously help you. I see that you're already in your 40's, that's a long enough time to try and change who you are, don't you think? You need to be careful because this could seriously damage you, and that's honestly the last thing you want. Also, you're an adult, if you like the same sex, there's really no one stopping you but it really depends, what's your situation right now? Single? No one knows? People do know and that's why you want to change because they don't accept it? Tell me, tell me what is your situation, so I can try and help the most beneficial way as possible.


    I hope this has helped, if any :slight_smile: Good luck :slight_smile:
     
  12. Tightrope

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    5,415
    Likes Received:
    387
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Oh my God. I wasn't expecting THIS. I actually WOULD call the office and see what their approach is. Even if they're not straight shooters, meaning that they are being diplomatic and skirting the issue, you should be able to figure it out from the tone. I would stay away. A practicing LDS person and the support you need will not be found in the same person. That's what I think.

    I can't believe how hard it is to find a therapist. I like my therapist, for the most part. It's also more important than your primary care doctor, who you may see 2 to 4 times a year for routine stuff.
     
  13. BMC77

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    107
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    BlueSky224: thanks for the info about finding therapy in WA! It's really useful having someone who knows the ins and outs of this state comment.

    Thanks. :slight_smile:

    Don't worry, I'm not looking for any sort of conversion to being straight. Just help for some issues in my life, such as depression.

    ---------- Post added 8th Apr 2014 at 11:27 PM ----------

    I'm tempted. Very tempted. :lol:
     
    #13 BMC77, Apr 8, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  14. Plushieluver

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay

    Oh, oops... I'm so sorry, I thought it was on about that... Ah, depression. Hmm, what have they been doing about it? Also, I'm glad you're not trying to convert to straight, that really would be living hell for you :frowning2:
     
  15. BMC77

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    107
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    That's OK. I should have been more clear in the 1st post. And I think I've seen people asking about ways to convert.

    So far, I've had no active treatment.

    It would be a hell. I've read the stories of "conversion therapy" and they really make me feel sick!
     
  16. BMC77

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    107
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Feeling more and more like giving up on therapy...

    Got a reference to one practice in a Nearby Undisclosed Location. E-mailed them. Financials won't work.

    They referred me to a Practice #2, which they said would work financially. Googling Practice #2 turned up some rather ugly comments. We'll leave it at that. I may consider them some more, but with the most extreme caution. (And there were some alarm bells going off even before the Google search.)

    Other names turn up that appear to be financially viable based on the Internet info. But...there is always some huge problem. A practice focus that is far removed from what I need, for example.

    Then I had a hugely frustrating talk with someone I know who used to be in counseling. We talked about Practice #2. It was before I started my research, but it was after the alarm bells began clanging. He was pushing me to rush right over to Practice #2, even though I had concerns. I think he thinks any action is better than none. And while I understand that view, I also understand that coverage is limited, and losing even one office visit on trial means one less visit that might help me.

    And, of course, I found one therapist very near me who looks really promising. But, of course, she doesn't work with poor white trash like me...
     
  17. Chip

    Board Member Admin Team Advisor Full Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    4,750
    Location:
    northern CA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I strongly disagree that any therapy is better than no therapy because I have seen the damage that inept therapists -- and there are a lot of them -- can cause.

    I mostly agree with bluesky except on two points:

    -- on the issue of modality, nearly every therapist in 2014 is competent with CBT, as it is the standard of what insurance wants to pay for, but for many issues that gay men face, CBT is not the best option, so getting a therapist whose primary modality is CBT will probably not be your best choice. The overwhelming issues most gay men face during coming out is associated with shame and self esteem issues, and CBT isn't the best choice to deal with the underlying issues. To be sure, CBT can be extremely effective in working with depression, but if you don't deal with the underlying shame, the CBT will be a band-aid and the issue will likely resurface. So someone with competence in CBT who also makes use of insight- based approaches and, ideally, shame resilience work will be your best choice.

    Secondarily, my experience in working with a lot of therapists in various settings is that the degree itself (MA vs Ph.D) is usually less important than the particular skill and theoretical approach of the therapist. And there are quite a few MSWs (usually LCSW or LICSW) who are amazing and gifted as well.

    Please don't give up on the idea of therapy. If you PM me your location I can check a couple of networks I'm connected with to see if I can find any suggestions for you.
     
  18. BlueSky224

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tel Aviv, Israel
    Don't give up on this one! Finding a therapist requires patience and footwork! It might mean trying someone out, and then he or she refers you to another therapist. There are multiple pathways to make this work for you.

    Chip has a good point that CBT isn't the answer for everything. I guess I use it as a guide. I used to practice where a lot of therapists were stuck in psychodynamic theories (i.e. Freudian psychotherapy,) which is not what I would recommend. All decent therapists take an eclectic viewpoint of which schools of psychotherapy are most useful. It's true that CBT is primarily designed for shorter-term therapy, and you may benefit from something more long-term. That will be a decision that you and a therapist decide.

    And indeed there are some very good masters-level therapists. I work with one of them, and she's fantastic. And there are plenty of awful doctorally-prepared psychologists. It's really just my preference: a mix of theory and personal experience. My own practice is unusual: we're moving AWAY from masters-prepared therapists, and moving only to PhD or PsyD psychologists. So Chip is right; I'm speaking from my own experience and viewpoint.

    Keep trying!
     
  19. XTREMEZish

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    193
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    L.A L.A land
  20. BMC77

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    3,267
    Likes Received:
    107
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I won't give up the search for a while yet, I guess. Even though I have moments of extreme frustration that make me feel like pulling the plug...

    Although, I will admit: I have a lot less optimism than I had when I first started this quest. It looks like place mentioned above that got ugly comments might be the only thing that will work financially. But we'll deal with that if/when I run out of other possible leads.

    ---------- Post added 12th Apr 2014 at 10:03 AM ----------

    It's actually more likely to be a decision made based on the financial end of it...

    And your view has been really valuable throughout this thread! I would never have thought to run names through the DOH on my own.

    Ultimately, we all have different experiences and viewpoints.