Gay and Christian and depressed

Hi Paul

I live in the UK, and like you, I'm Anglican. The Church of England leadership frequently disappoints me too, as they seem more intent on appeasing the Evangelicals and African Churches in the name of communion unity, rather than doing the right thing. It's rather depressing at times, isn't it?

Fortunately, I detect an entirely different attitude amongst the laity and most clergy (some quite senior) and I think it's genuine. The position of the Church of England is now untenable and unsustainable and there will be an internal rebellion before long, of that, I'm sure. A lot of people are getting fed up with the endless petty rows, me included. Change will come from within.

I go to an Inclusive Church in the North of England, where several members of the congregation, including myself, are LGB. The Vicar has blessed gay relationships in Church (including that of our Church Warden) and he will have nothing to do with the idea that LGBT people are an abomination. He has loaned me some excellent books, papers and research material, to demonstrate the stupidity of that very idea. Everyone in the congregation knows I am in a long term relationship with another man and they don't care. In fact, they have shown great faith and trust in me to manage the Parish Accounts. It's a place of real Christian love and support and demonstrates the very best of the Church of England.

Paul, I have no doubt that we find the full love of God through the teachings and example of Jesus and I fully expect the Anglican Church in England to change its position in the fullness of time.. just like it did about divorce, contraception, sex before marriage. In the end society demands it and the laity and clergy will force the issue.

Don't feel alone. I'm here if you wish to add me as a friend and you can chat with me through my wall about this issue or anything else.

Don't be too disheartened, good will prevail in the end. I just know it will!

 

Paul,

I live in Illinois USA. I am also a Christian and a man of great faith. I have been a church organist for over 35 years (started at 10) and have played in many different denominations.

For 13 years (during my coming out process) I was Choir Master and one of 5 organists at a large Roman Catholic Church. Informed a friendship with the Parochial Vicar and we were like brothers. I am not Catholic, but went to him when I struggled with reconciling my sexuality with my faith. One of the things that he told me was this (and it is my signature line on here): It is a far greater sin to DENY who you are than to BE who you are. Those words still resonate with me today.

I truly believe that God's love is unconditional and all-encompassing. Church leadership likes to preach that, but they don't practice it. As for the Bible, my Grandmother always said you could make it say whatever you wanted. And that is true. We must remember that the Bible was written by man - Divinely inspired - but WRITTEN by man, subject to the social climate of their time. And it has been transcribed and re-articulated many times over. Now today, interpreted and preached my man, subject to the current climate of our time.

Jesus himself said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." And they all left without casting a single stone.

Do not be disheartened and lose faith. God shall prevail and love, as Jesus taught, shall one day reign again.

Peace to you.

 

Please remember that those Christians who presume to judge for God are committing the sins of arrogance and presumption as do they who presume that God will judge them to go to heaven and you to hell. God created my soul as gay and there are no other individuals in this Universe who can create souls. So, love, be loved and help and serve others--that is what Christians are meant to do. We are supposed to be "love machines" and take whatever is given us-including trials and tribulations and turn them into unselfish love for others.

 

Hey Paul. I consider myself agnostic but some week ago the Dean of a Church in London came to gave a talk about LGBT people and how they fit in the church.

I am talking about the Church of England, though I consider myself agnostic i really liked his talk and I think you may be even to go to the church itself and meet friendly people . I really liked his point of view and sounded quite inspiring though I am not joining any religious organisation anytime soon (I had enough of that).

Here is a summary I found online and you can also see the name of the church . I hope that helps.

http://www.stmartin-in-the-fields.org/wp-content/uploads/Wholly-Holy-Jan-30-2013.pdf

Hugs!

 

Paul, I'm not sure what disturbs me more sometimes, the attitude of certain Christians towards gays, or the fact that their awful attitudes get extrapolated to represent all Christians!

I'm a lifelong Catholic and somehow managed to escape a lot of the negativity towards gays--my multi-decade sentence in the closet didn't really have anything to do with religion. It does sadden me to think that I couldn't marry the guy I love in the faith I profess, but well, I can make more positive change from inside than outside. You can't remodel the kitchen by throwing rocks at the front door. Having John the respected organist and singer and catechist turn out to be gay will shake up a few people, but it may open a few minds as well.

Someone once observed that there are only a handful of verses in the whole Bible about homosexuality, but hundreds of references to heterosexual behavior, which means that pretty clearly, gays need a LOT less monitoring! God loves you, Paul, and you're not a sinner for being gay. You're not alone either, even if it feels that way. I really believe that gay men who don't fit all the standard straight-endorsed stereotypes of gay men are some of the most sadly isolated people around, because we don't recognize each other. People need to see us. They need to see guys who look like their boring next-door neighbor holding hands with the man they love as they walk down the street, or kissing him by the cars after lunch before they both head back to work.

Sorry you're worn down. Keep writing and reading here. There are some fun minds and lots of proof that you're not as alone as you might feel.

John

 

Paulc,
"I'm still afraid that some of them hate me."

That line sticks with me. I guess part of the way you can grow and develop through this time is to say, "okay, what if they hate me?"

They might. And you might not be able to do much about it.

I think it's worth treasuring those in your church who have been supportive. Spend your time with them. If there are people who hate you, let it be their problem. I know that this is easier said than done, but try your best to let go. A "100 percent approval rating" doesn't happen much of anywhere in life, so try to find joy in the connections you've made with understanding and thoughtful friends.

And, as others have mentioned, it is profoundly un-Christian to be hateful towards sexual minorities, so you're perhaps better off avoiding them anyway.

 

Paul, it seems to me like you've already crossed some of the biggest hurdles to getting to a better place in your life to find happiness. First, you've accepted yourself as a gay religious man. Second, you've taken a path of honesty with your family. Third, you have not given up on God, you just question the human face presented by the church.

Now, the hard part of feeling better about yourself is being able to let go of what other people think about you. How does someone who you meet in passing once or twice a week at church deserve that much control over your self-worth? The world is a much different place than when we were in our teens and 20's; a lot of our emotional and relational issues were formed in the days of shame and terror of being gay.

I was raised in a southern baptist family in Florida. When I came out at 18, well, it was not pleasant and I spent the next 23 years doing everything I could to try to be straight. I got married, had kids, got two Labradors, all the usual trappings of suburban straight life. But I was never really happy. Sure the early years were easy, being young and hormonally infused made that part of our relationship work. But even then I was emotionally unavailable. I carried the hurt of rejection of my family for 23 years until it wore me down and I felt worthless.

When we had kids, I converted to the Catholic church. I was conflicted because of the media attention on religion and gay rights. As I went through the classes and learned about what the actual written teachings of the Church are on sexuality my mind was eased somewhat. Regardless of the attitudes of the men in robes and the laity in the pews, the teachings are of love and inclusion of all people; Jesus did not minister to the pure and righteous, he went to the people who needed Him the most. Society teaches us that being gay is "damaged" or "inferior" in some way, so we sometimes buy into the narrative and think that God must have shunned us like a mother dog or cat can sometimes shun the weak runt in the litter who may not survive. But the reality is, like the document referenced by Julieno earlier, being gay in the church is not a burden we carry but a blessing for the people around us. We can be the example of how much God loves all of us by how we live our lives and treat ourselves and the people around us.

Do we just become angry at the world for discriminating against us? Or, do we take positive action in our own lives and in our communities? Do we try to build ourselves up by tearing others down? Or, do we respect our differences and work to find common ground? Do we demand an offensive person be silenced, or do we highlight their offense so others can see them for who they really are?

So it's up to us to determine our quality of life. We cannot find happiness in someone else, and certainly not things. But we can share our happiness with others and be a blessing in their lives. We cannot fix people who choose to be bigoted; it is ignorance at it's most fundamental level and a person has to want to learn to get past that way of thinking... we cannot do it for them.

Here's another document from a local group here in Wisconsin that puts the fundamentalists weapons in their rightful context:
http://gayandstraightinchrist.com/The%20Bible%20and%20Homosexuality%20-%20An%20Overview.doc

 

I just read it and thought it was a very inspiring sermon. I've found it very heartening to read, for instance, the following few quotes (so I thought I'd share them):

"Baptism means being stripped of your failed attempts to be someone else, and others’ foolish attempts to make you someone else, and being called to be the person you are uniquely called to be."

"After hundreds of years of seeing LGBT persons as living in Babylon, in an exile of their own making, the church is finally beginning to realize that they’re not in Babylon – they’re in Egypt, in a captivity imposed upon them by others."

"LGBT persons by their very nature break the assumption that human existence is indelibly tied to reproduction. Having children is a longing for many people, a foiled or delayed hope for some, a joy to others, and a grief to yet more. But it’s not a necessity, for either biological or missiological reasons. Instead it’s a vocation, for some to carry and all to support. Some LGBT persons themselves sense a call to carry this vocation. But for the most part, LGBT persons are a witness that God reproduces the church by baptism and the kingdom by grace, and this is a proclamation of inestimable significance for Christian witness in the world."

For me it is very rare to see a postive Christian view on being LGBT and so it really touched me, having grown up with mostly hate and religious homophobia towards LGBT's.

 

We'll said GayDad!

Paul - there are many great books out there for gay Christians. Two of my favorites and have put a lot of things in perspective for me are: "Stranger at the Gate: To Be Gay and Christian in America" by Mel White and "Jesus, The Bible, and Homosexuality: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church" by Jack Rogers. They are awesome and insightful books.

And from one Christian to another: remember Jeremiah 29:11-13: "For I know the plans I have for you," declares The Lord, " plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call on me, and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."

And even though this was said about Americans, I'm sure that it would apply to the Brits as well: “Straight Americans need… an education of the heart and soul. They must understand – to begin with – how it can feel to spend years denying your own deepest truths, to sit silently through classes, meals, and church services while people you love toss off remarks that brutalize your soul.” - Bruce Bawer

Keep your faith, my friend and know that there are A LOT of gay Christians out there with you!

Peace.

---------- Post added 11th Apr 2014 at 08:58 AM ----------

[/QUOTE]"After hundreds of years of seeing LGBT persons as living in Babylon, in an exile of their own making, the church is finally beginning to realize that they’re not in Babylon – they’re in Egypt, in a captivity imposed upon them by others."[/QUOTE]

I love that! Thanks for sharing that, Kate.

 

Paul, im new here and like you i am Anglican (in Canada) the whole Bible argument against gays etc did play on my mind but i found this a few months ago and it really helped settle things in my mind it is called a letter to louise, google it, it is by a Baptist minister but it transcends denominations.

one other thing, we are never alone God is always with us.(&&&)

 

I am SO grateful that I am a member of a (Lutheran) congregation that is radically, wildly welcoming and inclusive.

(If any of y'all are ever in Louisville, KY and need a place to go on a Sunday morning, Third Lutheran will welcome you with open arms and warm hearts!)

 

Hey paulc, I'm sorry you're feeling so down by the thoughtless and heartless things those people say. I know what it's like. I wanted to share with you my favorite video on God's love for you regardless of your sexual orientation. This is part one of three available on that page. It's only about twenty minutes long and is uplifting I think. Take care (*hug*)

How can I be sure that God loves me, too? - Part one - YouTube

 

Hey Paul,

I'm going to finish my journey out this week by telling my bishop that one his pastor's, namely me, is gay, recently separated and curious as to where we go from here.

So, pastorally, let me say to you that you are not an abomination to God. He does not introduce Himself as a parent for nothing. You are a beloved son. A cherished possession held in His heart. Imagine if your children said the craziest thing, would it drive love from your heart? I suspect not.

The problems that we face as LGBTQ with the church is political. It is about control. It is about steering culture. It is human. Base. Ugly. It has nothing whatsoever to do with God. Not as you have outlined it above.

So while for the last few days that I am a pastor (because I have no idea what will come) I tell you that you are loved. Cherished. I bodily tell you, the Peace of the Lord be with you.

 

I am a very religious person, I grew up in a very religious household, and I firmly believe that God is watching over me, that is how I survived the trials that I have dealt with in my life.

That being said, God is perfect, he does not make mistakes. He made all of us this way for a reason. Also God is the one who judges people. What we have in our world are humans who are acting like God. They think it is their job to decide what is right or wrong. If a situation does not fit their specific lifestyle, those people are evil.

I totally understand what you are going through. I too have lost most of my friends, and spend many nights alone. It stinks. It really does. But what has gotten me through these last several years is God's love. He loves me. He loves you. He loves all of us.

 

I don't have much to add to the beautiful, deep and heartfelt comments above.

So a quote from Churchill will have to do:

 

http://emptyclosets.com/forum/blogs/robert/4479-homosexuality-lecture.html