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Perfectionism

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Aldrick, May 6, 2014.

  1. Aldrick

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    I don't know how many people here are suffering from being a perfectionist, and I doubt few are here who suffer from it as bad as I do. However, I'd love for some advice or book suggestions that deal directly with the topic.

    Perfectionism has influenced every aspect of my life. It has completely made it impossible for me to be vulnerable with other people. I'm fine with other people's vulnerability, and when they're vulnerable I can open up a bit. However, I can never give more than they do. I can never be the first one.

    Nothing is more terrifying to me than being in a situation where people can see my flaws, mistakes, and make judgements about me. It's so bad that it makes it hard to even post for advice here on the forums.

    I won't even bother to describe how bad it is - it's embarrassing. Suffice it to say, it impacts every aspect of my life. The one good thing that I can say is that I'm self-aware, and this has prevented me from turning into a rather horrible person and ruining other peoples lives. Or at least, minimizing the damage as much as possible. It isn't easy, though.

    What I am looking for specifically are ways to overcome perfectionism, or at least put myself in a position where I have control over it. I want to be able to be completely open and vulnerable, but half the time when I am I find myself being reduced to panic attacks - especially if I'm being REALLY vulnerable. The other thing I'm really looking for is a way to overcome life-paralysis that is caused by perfectionism.

    I have plenty of information on how to deal with perfectionism in trustworthy personal relationships and work related tasks. However, what I'm really lacking is good sound advice for being imperfect in front of the rest of the world. In particular, how can I be vulnerable in front of people that I have personal relationships with, but know that they will judge me harshly for my vulnerabilities and failures. (Namely my family.)

    I've tried numerous things, and they've helped to a degree. I've gotten better. However, I'm no where near where I need to be, and I feel like I'm just at a point in my life where I'm stalled out. It feels like I'm no longer progressing. That's a major problem.
     
  2. BelleFromHell

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    I'm also a perfectionist, but I just let it be.

    As much as I hate it, it's a part of who I am, and I can't change it no matter how hard I want to. (just like my homosexuality...)
     
  3. Calix

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    Have you considered cognitive behavioral therapy? It's all about changing the way you think about things and could be useful in your situation :slight_smile:
     
  4. Aldrick

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    Yep. My therapist is specialized in CBT. It's helped a lot, but I feel like my results are starting to stall out.

    You know those moments where you can look back and see that you've clearly gotten better, and then suddenly you start to plateau? That's where I'm at right now.

    For me, perfectionism is so self-destructive. Whenever it rears it's ugly head it ruins or taints everything.

    Just to give a romantic relationship specific example... A lot of people don't know what they want in a relationship. I know exactly what I want, and it doesn't exist in nature because what I want is unrealistic. What I want has nothing to do with me being happy, or even about falling in love. It has to do with how other people will judge me.

    So, let's say I see a guy, he's attractive, I like him, and things seem to click. Seems awesome, right? Well, the first thing I think is: "What are people going to say if they see me with him?" I immediately begin dissecting his every imperfection, magnifying it, and he becomes unacceptable to me. I can't accept him for who he is, because I'm too busy worried about what other people will think when they see us together. Imagine being in a relationship with someone who thinks you're never good enough. Ever. Imagine being in a relationship with someone who constantly has to hide their own feelings of shame and disappointment over your flaws, failings, and mistakes, while at the same time worried and concerned about what other people will say if they see them.

    Yeah, I'm loads of fun.

    Then on the flip side of that, you have to deal with my own insecurities. The fact that I know my own flaws and weaknesses, and so I'm constantly comparing myself to guys I might like. And not in a good way. In ways that I deem myself lacking. He looks better than me. He's smarter than me. He's more successful than me. He makes more money than me. He's more well liked than me. Pretty much every measurement you can think of... and that last measurement? That relationship is dead, there is no way I could tolerate being with a guy who was more well liked than me. Not even as a friend. Period.

    This pretty much results in me never going after a guy who I like because I've already deemed myself unworthy. Which is completely ridiculous and absolutely neurotic - I'm fully aware of all this - but that's how my brain works.

    The end result of all of this is the fact that I actually prefer the guys who are only interested in sex. I don't do anonymous hookups, but there is nothing more validating to my shallow ego than a guy who thinks I'm attractive enough to have sex with.

    There is nothing I love more than being validated, which is a horribly dangerous thing, it opens me up to all kinds of manipulation. I find it insanely hard to say no to people who are giving me positive validation, because I crave it worse than any drug. This has caused me to really set strict boundaries for myself and other people, to protect myself.

    That's just a tiny little slither of how bad it is for me in one aspect of my life. It gets worse in others. Being apathetic and accepting it isn't something I can tolerate if I want a life that I have some sufficient control over.

    Right now, my life is filled with self-created boundaries to prevent this disaster or that disaster from taking place. Pretty much every relationship has become compartmentalized, giving me the maximum amount of control over those that I have influence over.

    Often times, I feel like EC is really the only place where all the various aspects of who I am come to light. But even here, I hold back a great deal on the personal front, simply because it isn't as good as I'd like it to be... and I can't stand the thought of being vulnerable - even here, anonymously - to get help or advice. I know that sounds super sad and messed up, but that's how bad it is.

    ---------- Post added 7th May 2014 at 02:42 AM ----------

    Oh, I should probably add. I believe my therapist diagnosed me with PTSD and OCD. I never worked up the courage to actually ask him to confirm the diagnosis to me. The more I've looked into it on my own, the more I'm sure I have them.

    It's likely my OCD fuels my perfectionism, making it worse than it would normally be.
     
  5. Linux Lenny

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    I can totally relate . Being concerned about how I would look to the outside world and always thinkg about what people might think of me if I did this or that , I hate it . I cant open up totally and be vulnerable , I try but I can't . Even if I am in a huge need of help and advice , it is very difficult for me to ask for it because I would look vulnerable and "weak" .

    But now I am trying to learn how to open up and how to accept being imperfect . I think EC is a very good place to practice it .
     
  6. mawwhite

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    One thing to consider is perfectionism can be a defence mechanism to help deal with extreme shame. Not the kind of shame you get when you do something wrong but the kind that tossed at you by outside forces like homophobia and other childhood trauma. You might want to Google "shame psychology" and see if that makes sense. It quite common for LGBT people to carry extreme shame as a oppressed minority. It can be beat but takes a good therapist and time.
     
    #6 mawwhite, May 7, 2014
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  7. mangotree

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    I can only suggest Meditation.
    And Letting Go (either the Sedona Method or the F--k It approach) - though you probably already know about those.
     
  8. Linux Lenny

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    You are right . I stayed in the closet for my whole life just to look perfect to the outside world , there was a lot of shame because of my sexuality . I wanted the people to see that I have a good job , a good degree and I am straight , but what was the outcome ? I ended up depressed and on ADs !!
     
  9. mawwhite

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    Exactly, I was told to be ashamed also. To bad since we have nothing to be shamed of....but we pay the price for their wrong and must move on.
     
  10. greatwhale

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    Hey Aldrick,

    I commend you for taking a first step to vulnerability by opening up to us about this problem. I quoted your text above because I think it is the crux of the matter: control. In fact it's your approach to the problem that illustrates the problem!

    Control is precisely the issue. Life isn't like that, if you think about it, we control very little in our lives. If we let go of that rigid grip and let ourselves fall a bit, we find that there are open arms to catch us. The imagined catastrophes don't materialize, the worst is not what happens.

    Control is an instrumental mentality: if I pull this lever here, that will happen, push that button and everything should fall into place...and when it doesn't, the negative emotions take over. It would be more productive to take that "failure" as an opportunity to learn.

    There are accidents, and there are happy accidents...the control paradigm closes the door to the profligate possibilities of discovering something, or someone, new! Control assumes that nothing changes unless you will it, that's not how life works...certain trees release billions of grains of pollen, the trees "know" that most will not land on a flower, it doesn't matter, at least one will, and the match of DNA creates possibly something new...that's life and evolution!

    I argue often that one should compose a life as an artist. The whole life as a work of art, doing things that seem like a good idea, because it fits into a pattern that is, first and foremost, beautiful. No life, no love, can be possible without the vulnerability that opens you to all the possibilities that life has to offer.
     
  11. Chip

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    Perfectionism is shame. Brené Brown calls it "The 50 Ton Shield." Perfectionism protects us from vulnerability, and arises from a place of scarcity, because it allows us to live in the delusion that if we simply try harder, work more, be more perfect that somehow we'll be loved/accepted/appreciated/whatever it may be.

    What underlies our perfection is a deeply held believe that we aren't adequate, that we aren't worth of love/approval/appreciation/acceptance if we aren't perfect.

    Of course, the paradox is, for the perfectionist, nothing is ever perfect. We never work hard, get something done, and sit back and say "Wow, that's the most amazing thing ever, and it's perfect and couldn't be better." Instead we say "Well, that's OK, but I could still have done better if I'd done _____________, and next time I will do better."

    It feeds a continuing spiral of shame.

    CBT isn't effective in dealing with perfectionism, at least, not in the long term, because it isn't a cognitive issue; it's a deeply held belief that goes below the conscious layer of our awareness. CBT might band-aid over the issue temporarily, but until we deal with the underlying issues of shame and self-worth, the perfectionism will always be there, on or just below the surface.

    Perfectionism is right at the core of shame resilience work, which is what Dr. Brown has been studying for 14 years. I would suggest getting a copy of "The Gifts of Imperfection" and spending time reading it. You'll probably benefit best if you read it three or four times as there's a lot that you won't get the first couple of times... not because it's a difficult read, but because the more you delve into shame resilience work, the deeper your level of understanding.

    You might also want to try and find a therapist who specializes in shame resilience work. There aren't a lot of them around yet, but the work is spreading pretty quickly and the therapists working with it are pretty much universally reporting that it is some of the most profound and life-changing work they've ever used.

    If you connect with Brené's work, there are other resources I can recommend.
     
  12. Aldrick

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    I can totally relate to that. Reaching out for help is one of the hardest things to do, because of the desire to constantly project an aura of being in control and being able to handle your own problems. Perfectionism isn't about -BEING- perfect, it's about seeming perfect to the outside world - or as close to it as you can possibly get. Perfect people don't have problems or any other "weakness".

    Yeah, there is a difference between shame and guilt. Shame being "you are bad" vs Guilt being "you've done something bad". I have little doubt that my perfectionism began as a teenager as a result to cover up the fact that I was gay. However, I've moved to a point where I've accepted and am even happy to be gay, and yet my perfectionism continues.

    At this point it has nothing to do with being gay, and everything to do with the fear of being judged by other people. However, I have no doubt that the root cause - the beginning of the problem - was when I was a teenager, struggling to cover up being gay, and looking for ways to "be enough" to others.

    Yeah, I've been practicing Mindfulness since last year. It helps a great deal in managing things. A book that really helped me was Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself by Kristin Neff. Although it was written primarily for women, and it's tone can occasionally be new age-y, it has a lot of practical advice and wisdom within the pages.

    A lot of the improvements I've made to myself have been as a result of reading that book.

    You're right that I definitely have control issues. Every aspect of my life is rigidly controlled, including my relationships with other people. It is exhausting, and I'd love nothing more than to stop... to just say fuck it, abandon everything, and potentially burn every bridge that I've built and relationship I've cultivated. I want nothing more than the ability - the courage - to say that I'm going to do me, and to tell the rest of the world to go to hell. ....and saying to hell with the consequences. I dream about doing that.

    But I can't. There is no way that will ever happen. I never do anything that isn't planned and controlled. If there is one thing people who know me come to learn: I hate uncertainty and the people who cause it. Why? Because I can't control it. When uncertainty happens, I want to know who the fuck caused it, why, and then we need to make a plan to ensure that it never happens again.

    Even really minor things that aren't significant get under my skin.

    One of the major problems that I have is that I don't have anyone that I can really trust and open up to on a personal level in my life. I don't trust anyone currently in my life to act without judgement, and even the tiniest bit of judgement causes me problems.

    I unconsciously shape myself to be acceptable to other people. When I notice people having issues and problems with me, I'll change rather rapidly based on how I'm being judged. Well, I'll change on the outside at least. Just to give an example of something ridiculous and minor: On my third or fourth visit to the therapist a couple years ago, I dropped the F-bomb in casual conversation. I noticed him wince. As a result, I've made sure to watch my language around him to avoid offending. I actually modeled my behavior and words around a non-verbal reaction. Nearly two years later, I still remember him wincing, and the mental notes I made in that moment.

    My life is filled with those mental notes that I make about other people. What does so-and-so like? What mask do I have to wear when I'm around them, to make them feel at ease, and will ensure that they like me?

    What I need in my life is someone I can trust. Someone that I can open up to, be vulnerable with, and not have to worry about the masks. I believe that would help me a great deal, and then allow me to back down in other areas of my life. The problem is aside from my therapist, there is no one else that I even remotely trust.

    ...and because of my issues it makes it hard to go out and cultivate legitimate friends. I can't just go out and 'be myself' and develop friendships based on that. After all, at my core, I'm a perfectionist control freak. I don't WANT to subject someone to that. It's something that I work hard to protect others from as best I can, because it can lead me to hurt other people. I've had varying degrees of success at that. The closer you are to me, the more that facade begins to crumble.

    Reading Brené Brown's books have definitely been a major help to me. I have read both the Gifts of Imperfection and Daring Greatly. I've read the Gifts of Imperfection twice. It's thanks to that book that I was actually able to label myself a perfectionist. Prior to reading that book, I had the popular view of perfectionism as an ideal to strive toward and emulate. After all, who wouldn't want to be perfect, right? Those are all the really hard workers, the ones who have their lives together, and... then I realize what perfectionism really is, and I have a holy shit moment.

    This may be the issue I'm having with CBT. I feel like I've been able to make strides toward papering over my issues and problems, achieve a greater level of control over myself. Yet, I've sort of hit the point where moving forward is going to cause me to push head first into fighting off my perfectionism... and I just can't seem to do it. Manage it? Yes. Overcome it? No, it doesn't seem possible.

    Every forward step in the right direction I make now, it feels like I'm going to be overwhelmed. Getting the results that I want are becoming more and more difficult, though being a perfectionist I know I'll never be satisfied with my results so it's hard to know if I'm judging things accurately.

    I'm interested in whatever resources you can recommend.
     
  13. mawwhite

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    I can empathize with you so much and this tread that its gut wrenching. One thing I’ve learned in therapy is there are many sources of shame in my life from just the things I heard as a gay kid, to the verbal and physical abuse in high school and other childhood trauma. But the therapist has been careful to discuss this but also emphatic that not all my shame is gay issue related. I actually did not believe him at first, but as I learned more about shame, the more I understood that much of my shame began very early in my life at the first few years. As uncomfortable as it was, I had to acknowledge this to be correct. I’ve read that in the first years of our lives, our brains can be wired with shame built in. It’s hard to undue.

    My therapists choose psychodynamic therapy due to the trauma and past early life experiences. Basically I have to relive the experiences since when experiencing I neither got mad or sad…just didn’t deal. Really I need compassion and also anger. I find getting very angry (not at the world) but at the incidences and those involved it helps go through a mourning process. It’s very early but I am hopeful it will work.

    In the other thread a bunch of us posters were wondering if it’s all worth it. Getting divorced and trying to move on. I’m not sure myself. At my age I may never find true love again and end of alone. It frightens me very much. But on the other hand, if I didn’t try, I would have never tried therapy. At this point what I really want to true happiness. I am sick of feeling judged all the time, sick of wanting to be invisible all the time, sick of feeling isolated and lonely even when surrounded by friends and other people. I guess if I can overcome the shame, and undue all of its horrible harm and have a true sense of inner happiness them something good will have come of it. Well I guess I will go somewhere and cry a bit.
    :tears:
     
  14. greatwhale

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    Hey Aldrick,

    I feel for you, and your perfectionism shows even here in your comprehensive posts, you must indeed be exhausted!

    Unfortunately, it's not only exhausting to you, but also to those who would want to be close to you. It's a rather nasty negative feedback loop!

    When you spoke of adjusting yourself to mirror or please others, that struck a chord with me, for a long time I did just that...I ended up married it was so extreme. I also attribute that to a childhood during which I was loved for what I did (conditional), as opposed to who I was (unconditional).

    I found something online (despite the religious context) that is so pertinent to what you wrote above:

    The worst thing about perfectionism is that there are rewards...you tend to do well at work, better than most. This cannot be an easy struggle for you...loving yourself for who you are, and seeking companions who will love you for who you are is your special task and challenge.
     
    #14 greatwhale, May 7, 2014
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  15. Aldrick

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    I know it does. It shows up in everything that I do and in every aspect of my life. Just to show you how ridiculously bad it is...

    Cooking. I literally have hundreds of pages of research notes on food science. I can't stand the fact that if I cook or make something that it doesn't look perfect like in the pictures (despite the fact that I fully realize it's likely photoshopped) or how it might look on TV. It has to look, taste, and smell perfect. If at all possible, it also has to be as healthy as reasonable. That can be a difficult (if not impossible) balance with look and taste.

    When I sit a plate down in front of someone, and they love what I've cooked - I love that validation. It's like a drug. In that moment, it made everything worth it. Of course, they have no idea how much effort I put into it - the literal hours I probably spent. Sometimes preparing even days in advance, and almost certainly at least testing it out once or twice before I actually serve it to them. Hell! I've even studied how to properly plate food like professional chefs.

    So, I get my compliments. I smile, I pretend like it was nothing - that I just whipped it up on a whim. Meanwhile, I'm so exhausted that I can't even enjoy it.

    Then throughout the week, when no one else is looking, it requires so much energy for me to do things *EXACTLY* right that I end up eating frozen food most of the time. Just because I don't have the energy to actually prepare real meals.

    I know. I try to keep people at a distance as best I can to prevent them from being sucked into my dysfunction. It also makes it easier on me, because when someone gets pulled into it - it's a lot more extra work.

    Yes, I have the tendency to become a massive people pleaser. Nothing creates resentment in me faster than that, though. I despise having to twist myself to make other people happy, but can't bare the thought of them disliking me so I do it anyway. This is one of the reasons I've learned to create boundaries and to say no - it's difficult as hell, but it can save me a lot of energy.

    I'm going to go read all of that in a bit. What you quoted pretty much defines me exactly.

    There are rewards, yes. However, with every great success there are many more failures. My productivity is shit because whatever I do requires so much energy, focus, and attention for only minor gains. At some point you start seeing diminishing returns, but you can't stand to pry yourself away because you know it could be better. And if you have other people to compare yourself to... well...

    I've missed so many life opportunities, simply because I was afraid to fail, and for other people to judge me negatively. It's like having your very life and existence trapped in a cage. You're free to wander to the edges but no further. It's even worse when you realize your the one responsible for building that cage, and you're holding the key. However, you don't have the courage to open the door and step out. As a result, you stay locked inside, slowly suffocating behind the bars.
     
  16. bingostring

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    My therapist strongly recommended:

    "When Perfect Isn't Good Enough: Strategies for Coping with Perfectionism" by Antony/ Swinson.

    I bought it a year ago on Amazon and promptly failed to read it… what's that all about !!
     
  17. Kate Lee

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    I could quote so much of what's being said here... (there wouldn't be an end to it)

    Perfectionism is often setting me back, causing so much self-doubt about not being good enough. It often paralyzes me completely, both in my studies and social situations. I so want to do the right thing and for people to like me that I feel like I lose myself. And because of the masks and people pleasing, I'm still lonely because I feel like no-one really knows me well.

    I find that it's easier to be open about things online and that does help somewhat. To see that other people have similar issues makes me feel not so alone. I've had similar experiences with that on a forum about abuse and PTSD and such. Just to realize that others are dealing with those problems as well and provide connection and advice is relieving.
     
    #17 Kate Lee, May 8, 2014
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  18. Corwin

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    Hey Aldrick,

    I totally hear you - so much of what you describe are issues I share.

    Not too long ago I came across Wayne Dyer's Change Your Thoughts - Change Your Life: Living the Wisdom of the Tao, and it's been a big help to me. It's a set of 81 essays on the 81 verses of Lao-tzu's Tao Te Ching, and it's intended to be read 1 essay per day.

    It has really helped me with learning to let go and stop trying to control everything. And I've found that when I can do that, especially when facing challenges, things just frequently work themselves out favorably and I have a lot less stress in the process.

    It's something I have to continue to work at, and while it may seem counter-intuitive to us perfectionists and control freaks, I'm learning that life goes better if I don't try to force it.
     
  19. CyclingFan

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    I've suffered a lot from perfectionism. Which still means I made mistakes. Like everyone.

    I just felt worse about the mistakes than other people.

    Eff that noise.
     
  20. awesomeyodais

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    I can totally relate to that. I just read recently (can't remember where at the moment) there's a big difference between perfection and excellence - I'm trying to keep that in mind whenever obsession about minute details starts to upset me (which happens a lot). Not gonna happen overnight but hey, baby steps and all.