Gay, married dad criticized after coming out

Probably they see situation as lying and decieving someone to hide their true-self...

Under that light situation harbors lot of negative things; lying, decieving, cowardy, manipulating people, harming innocent people, abusing good will of others, etc...

 

It all raises some tough questions... Is there such a thing as being "too out" when there's an ex spouse and kids whose feelings must be considered? To what extend do we owe it to our ex spouses to be discreet in our activities? Where is the line between selfishness and living authentically?

I don't think that question is particularly tough.

If we say to ourselves "Oh, I must hide my orientation for the sake of my children", what message do we send them?

If other people don't like you, YOU must change? (If they eventually find out anyway)

If you found love once, and lost it, you will never have it again? (If you cannot date again)

The comfort of bigots is more valuable than personal expression?

That being gay is something to be deeply ashamed of?

This last one I think is the most important.

Just say for a moment you decided not to come out for your childrens sake. Now lets say one of those children turns out to be gay.

What do you do? Do you tell him to come out and live authentically knowing full well you thought it was a 'safety concern' or whatever?

 

My feelings are a mix of both White Knight's and Ellia's.

Regarding what White Knight said about this:

I think what a lot of people - including myself if I had to be perfectly honest - think BEFORE it even goes down the 'lying' and 'deceiving' route is, "Why wait until you're already married to address such an important thing in your life?"

Though I don't question that the discovery can indeed happen late in life after one is 'settled', there's also this 'in the back of my mind' notion that this discovery could have been made sooner and to be very very VERY honest, I have seen many times that this discovery WAS made sooner... but was ignored or brushed aside or suppressed in hopes for a normal life. (Not my words. Theirs.)

In which case, WHY?

WHY not only submit yourself to what is essentially living a lie (in regards to being exclusively homosexual, bisexual is a bit different) but also the people who would be affected by such a thing like the significant other and kids if there are any?

I can't speak for other people and I won't and I'm not trying to be critical, but I honestly personally find it really hard to understand (not believe, but understand) how people manage to do something like this.

This, in turn, can lead to thoughts of, "Well, if they already knew and yet decided to go on with a straight marriage anyways... What was the purpose, then?" which then can lead to thoughts similar to what White Knight postulated.

But that aside, my own stance on, "What happens now?" in terms of coming out and how much and if there is such a thing as too much is like that of ElliaOtaku's.

In the end, 'saving face' only can save so much and the unhappy stories (from all sides involved) regarding what happens later in terms of suppressing things are rather weighty.

Being an honest and decent person and parent doesn't automatically exclude people who are non-heterosexual and/or non-gender binary and seeing two gay men or gay women or a femme boy and a masculine woman being in love isn't going to be the end of the world for anyone - not even children.

On the other hand, flaunting the fact that you're now a porno star (or something else adult appropriate and child inappropriate) might not be such a good idea.

 

Hi,

I find it sad that people would look upon someone who has been in a 'straight' relationship while they are actually gay as being manipulative or lying.

I am sure that it is often a case of pushing ones own true sexual nature aside because of the expectations of the community, and a lot of confusion in this. And then after time, realizing that one is truly gay and then having to break the news to the partner.

I find it all a very gritty situation. I care very deeply for my husband, as a friend. He has carried me through hell in this. And now I turn around and say I can't remain married to him and that I really need to be with a woman. I have really hurt him. So yes there are truly concerns for past family members and definately if there are children. Though I definately would not lie to my children, if I had children. If I come out I come out to everyone. And I feel the gay community of all places should understand this sort of thing.

For example would I be lying to anyone if I come out, live as a lesbian woman, divorced from my husband but still sharing the same house but with separate rooms because of financial reasons, because we truly care about one another and don't want to ruin one another financially. I dunno. It is not all that black and white. We are all still just people.
I am hoping that I can mingle with the gay community and join in some activities organized by the local group here with my current setup at home. I am not looking for a relationship just yet, but it would hurt me a lot if the gay community could not accept this sort of setup.

It is very difficult.

 

Hey Filly

It is based on the belief that person is gay and getting married just to save their own face... There are always exceptions to generalizations however that belief mirrors common behavior especially in gay men(at least in here). With more tolerant society of today hopefully those disasters will end in near future(in far away future in here :/ ).

It is always good to listen someone's story and judge afterwards. Probably as usual with people on internet, most of those commented even without reading or watching whole thing.

My belief at the end of the day, if you can go bed without any regrets or shame, your life is on the right track. For 10 men who would misjudge you there will be one who will accept you as you are...

Never fall into deception of gay community is more understanding and forgiving than straight crowd. Both sides formed by humans and humans comes in any shape and size (physically and psychologically).

 

you need to understand that the betrayal is in the lies that went on for the entire lives of the children up to the point of coming out. that's too much lying to EVERYONE in that man's life, for anyone to dismiss simply because he wanted a normal life. so incredibly selfish.

and the LGBT community at large, is as much to blame as anyone. we tout ourselves as being so open but the opinions about bisexuality among the gay community range from the mythical to the face saving cop-out; to an outright betrayal of the idea that being gay ISN'T A CHOICE. it's as if the B in LGBT is just paying lip service.

taking a woman's best years and having her bear and raise your offspring under false pretenses is DESPICABLE and in that respect it gives bisexuals everywhere a bad name.

God knows there are as many bisexual women out there as men. In an age where computerization makes the selection process a lot easier we can search for partners who share our values and in the case of bisexuals they can look for someone who is open to a more flexible relationship from the outset. there is just no need to lie any more.

but its still happening

 

Ouch lonely bear

 

Hi,

okay I can understand that if someone consciously goes into a marriage fully aware they are gay, with the intent on deception just to save their own face. This is wrong. Very selfish, and then to after a few years come out, that is simply hurtful. But once again this is such a generalisation. I think in many cases people go into a marriage fully convinced they are doing the right thing, with all the best intentions in place, often still very confused about their own sexuality, and then after a few years realize it is just not working and then come out. People get hurt yes, but both sides are human beings, and I can guarantee you being on the coming out side is damned painful too.

It is so sad that we human beings always just generalize and judge, cause one cannot really know what someones elses intentions were to start with.

 

Ouch is right Rich8109. I’m a bit surprised to read some of these responses in this forum as there are hundreds of posts from gay married (or formerly married) spouses that explains how this happens.

White Knight: It is based on the belief that person is gay and getting married just to save their own face... There are always exceptions to generalizations however that belief mirrors common behavior especially in gay men (at least in here). I am not sure any gay man or women in this forum got married to save face so not sure why you are saying that.

I certainly had no overriding reason to get married to hide. Not from a religious background and not from an area I needed to hide. Yes I wanted to live a “normal” life. I met my future wife, fell in love, enjoyed the sex, and got married. Sorry but it’s not that different from a straight marriage except I made an awful mistake that I could ignore my homosexuality forever. However you feel I did not do it to hide nor to “use” my wife for any reason.

Lonelybear: you need to understand that the betrayal is in the lies that went on for the entire lives of the children up to the point of coming out. that's too much lying to EVERYONE in that man's life, for anyone to dismiss simply because he wanted a normal life. so incredibly selfish. Sorry but “betrayal” is a strong word and implies intent to deceit. Most of us that got married it was for life because we fell in love with our spouses and did not know the psychological damage staying in the closet does. Now we do but that is an awful mistake and not intentional deceit.

Lonelybear: taking a woman's best years and having her bear and raise your offspring under false pretenses is DESPICABLE and in that respect it gives bisexuals everywhere a bad name What false pretense? Again you assume there was some understanding the relationship was unsustainable. Sorry but the day I got married there was no question in my mind it was for life. Just like the 50% of straight marriages that end in divorce.

Regarding the particularly guy that came out in the huff post story, I agree that was particularly insensitive and borderline narcissistic. Most of didn’t make the decision lightly and took us decades to realize our mistake.

I wish the other married or formally married spouses in this forum would respond. I understand people are going to jump to conclusions that we all lied simply to hide but I know that’s not true. And I know for me at least coming out to people is going to be easy as I have full embraced being gay, but I also know people will jump to conclusions as those have in this forum. Not sure how to deal with this going forward other than as white knight said: My belief at the end of the day, if you can go bed without any regrets or shame, your life is on the right track. For 10 men who would misjudge you there will be one who will accept you as you are...

 

Yeah you are right. This forum and your life represents all the gay people of the world. Sorry my mistake. :dry:

 

The notion that we who got married did it to "save face", and consciously and deliberately perpetrated a huge lie as a result, is inaccurate and insensitive. To those making sweeping generalizations about those of us who DID get married, you might want to avoid passing judgment on an experience you've never had.

Yes, I knew when I got married that guys turned me on and for the most part, women didn't. But what I knew and understood about what being gay meant, could have been written on the head of a pin. I was brought up believing that everyone got married and had kids. It wasn't an option, and didn't have anything to do with sexual desire. You found someone you were compatible with and had some degree of admiration and attraction for, and you married them. Period. Sexual attraction wasn't ever really part of the picture in my repressed little childhood and early adulthood, so the fact that I was sexually attracted to guys was basically irrelevant.

I didn't have the same religion-based guilt and fear that many people had, but I also didn't have the slightest notion that being gay was a hard-wired orientation that wasn't going to change. The little exposure I had to gays was a handful of people who were extreme, uncomfortable stereotypes, and "gay" was always presented to me as a lifestyle choice that involved things like promiscuity and drugs, and in my limited understanding, the lifestyle and the orientation were the same thing. I equated being gay with giving up my family ties, being rejected, and living a life of anonymous sex and endless drinking and drugs. I had absolutely no idea at the time that there WAS any other way to live if you were gay, or that being gay really just meant you were attracted to the same sex, and you could be the same person you always were.

In my teens and twenties, I assumed that my interest in guys was some personal quirk that would go away when I met the right woman, because I really didn't know any better. It didn't, obviously, but at the same time I started figuring out that being gay was a good possibility, I met a woman who I did have some level of interest in, and I assumed that the gay thing just didn't matter anymore. Yes, I was wrong, delusional, in denial. Call it what you want. But getting married and having a family was absolutely, 100% NOT some kind of selfish face-saving move that I did to make life easier or more respectable. I was living the life I assumed I was supposed to lead.

That was my experience. Others here tried to come out, and had their parents treat them so horribly that they basically lived a straight life out of fear and PTSD. Or they had hellfire and hatred thrown in their faces. But after being here for 10 months, I don't know of anyone, ANYONE, who got married in some selfish effort to save face. Coming out to my wife and acknowledging what that has done, and will do, to her was a painful thing that I did after a lot of soul-searching, not some kind of "Oh, enough of that respectable family crap, now I want to suck dick!" When we got married, we felt that it was the only option for how to live our lives, and after years of pain and self-hatred, we finally came out because it felt like the only option for living a life where we finally felt honest about ourselves.

 

Yeah you are right. This forum and your life represents all the gay people of the world. Sorry my mistake. :dry:[/QUOTE]

Agree but not sure you life represents all the gay people of the world nor your experience should enable you to "represent" all the married gay people of the world.

Just a problem when people jump to conclusions without any knowledge of a subject.

 

So I got married because I met a girl that I laughed with, felt happy with, felt a sense of connection and belonging with and, although I knew that I liked looking at guys, just thought that that was just me and it was no big deal. I lived a genuinely happy life with my wife, had kids later on in our marriage, and although the feelings I had about guys grew I didn't have any desire to leave and pursue that further. I didn't marry because I wanted to hide, to just have kids and have a fake family, because I wanted a shield to hide how I felt about guys or any other deceptive, deceitful or lying artifice that some might think is the case for those people who marry and later come out.

I met a guy that I connected with later (at age 40) and the growing sense of attraction to men inside me just blasted through and there was no way I could deny that the feelings I had were real. Struggling to balance both the feeling of love for my wife, and the need to be honest with myself, has led me to living on my own. After 7 months of him, it's over and I am left with this massive confidence issue where it comes to guys and trusting what another guy tells me.

The hurt I've caused my wife I will never get over - I will feel guilt for that forever it feels like. We are good friends, my kids have accepted the living arrangements and I see them regularly. I am still part of the family and we still operate as a family, although I don't live with them. When I got married I expected to grow old with my wife, have a nice life together and never ONCE thought that I would ever live out what was inside my head. To me it was just something that existed in my head - a fantasy that would never be real. I loved my old life - maybe a bit of rose tinted glasses now cos everything's feeling a bit crap just now - but being honest as soon as I realised that there was no denying the feelings were real was the only way I could see forward.

 

If you read my posts I never said those negative views are my own thoughts about married gay guys.

So far, other than the people in this forums, married gay guys usually seen as disgusting traitors who gave gay people bad name.

I know many gay people who are married just to hide themselves and suggest other gay people to do the same. Even advise on making children so their "hetero" status confirmed.

Also never met one but heard from friends about married gay guys who beg people f*ck their wives so he might f*ck him afterward.

I don't give a damn what others do, I am only responsible from my own actions and usually try to post messages from objective point of view (unless I write about something I like or not). You might find it insensitive but for me they are part of reality and possibilities.

 

If they're "not your thoughts", then why exactly would you bother sharing them in a forum full of guys who are agonizing over the decision to come out? If we were the "disgusting traitors" that these unnamed people see us as, I can guarantee you we'd be merrily collecting bodily fluids from every guy in the vicinity, rather than trying desperately not to destroy our wives and children in the process of accepting ourselves. "Disgusting traitors" is hardly an objective statement, even if you're just reporting it (and for whose benefit, I might ask?). And yes, it is insensitive. Read through some of these posts and take a look at the lengths some of us are going through to protect our families from financial or emotional ruin. I have no doubts that there ARE men who deliberately found themselves a beard so they could save face, but those are not the men coming to this forum for support.

 

Oh God. Did you read all the posts? At first OP was surprised about bad comments to video he linked. Then I commented and tried to explain where those guys are coming from. Then Filly offended. I explained it to her.

So I never say those negative comments were right but to me you are too sensitive... maybe guilt ridden, so find every bit of info not pampering you offending.

Is it too hard to accept not everything works in your favor and people might see things objectively even if they are belong a specific faction.

Anyway take it as you want. :dry:

 

Some might say it's the fault of his society, community, family, culture that 'forced' him to suppress his homosexuality and lead a "straight" life in the first place.

There's also a thought that his kids should thank him for lying his whole life, because without him, they wouldn't exist.
Also, if he had accepted himself as gay from an early age, we (and thousands of other people around the world) wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

I didn't know there were so many gay dads in the world till I joined this site. I think it's good that someone has had the guts to share their story with the world and opened some more minds that way.

Peace be with you.

 

I usually dont wish ill on people but for anyone that opts to be so incredibly condemning of others life decisions or "mistakes" ... I really hope that youre treated exactly the same way that you have judged here.

I wish life were really as simple as some people seem to think it is.

God, I'm absolutely disgusted.

---------- Post added 30th May 2014 at 04:28 PM ----------

You know what? Fuck YOU.

Ban me. It was so worth it.

 

I have read over the last posts since I last posted and wanted to sincerely apologize if I came off as rude or offensive and insensitive as that wasn't my intention when posting.

I have my own issues of 'analysis paralysis' where I think to the point of overthinking and my own struggles with gender identity and orientation and how it affects a relationship and orientation (formerly straight female vs gay trans-spectrum male) has made me overly cautious when it comes to things like relationships where sometimes, you really just need to take fair chances and let go.

I'm also in my 30s and embarrassingly, I forget that literally, 'the times have changed' and Choirboy, mawwhite, and Highlander2, and Filly76 I want to especially thank you for sharing your stories and explaining your thoughts. It certainly gave me something to think on, and yes, the stories helped me to understand better.

Admittedly, being so fixated on trying to understand things can make me short-sighted at times when trying to see far and I apologize for that.

That said, I also want to clarify my use of the phrase 'saving face' in my first post of this thread. 'Saving face' wasn't being applied to the person in question (or their actions) who might be coming out - rather, it was being applied to those who would wish for this person to stay in the closet to 'save face' of the family, children, community etc.

Basically, other people who are wanting others to stay in the closet are the ones perpetuating the whole 'saving face' bit... not the person coming out of the closet.

Hope that made sense.