Greetings, This is an interesting article for us Later-in-Lifers, and speaks to the issue of remaining in a marriage despite being gay. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/03/fashion/03marriage_bg.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2& I'd like to know what you think of the article. I myself think it is fairly descriptive of the actual situation for many of us, but not all of us. More to the point, I think it is more descriptive of this "situation" as it happens to white, fairly well-off families who have so much more to lose upon divorcing...
I have never been married and am at a different stage in my life so the article probably has a very different meaning for me. The article is fascinating in one way because it is fairly old but seems like it could have been written today (or maybe I'm more in tune to this topic than I was in 2006). To me it highlights the complexity of sexuality. Even as society becomes more open to it, I wonder if these types of marriages will continue to exist with some frequency as long as exclusive heterosexuality remains the "norm" which, as far as I can tell, isn't changing anytime soon no matter how accepting society becomes. As challenging as coming out has been for me, and coming to terms with it, I sympathize with the difficulty that has to come with having a wife and family... it makes me feel like I have it easier. You all have a lot of courage.
I'm in the midst of this type of situation right now. For me it is the lack of finances that hinders me. Need enough to support myself and her as I feel that's right for me to do. The article hits close to home on a number of points. I'm glad you shared it with us.
Interesting article! And yes, it does look like a "familiar story" as far as many Later in Life types are concerned.
Yes. Indeed, I didn't notice the date at first, and thought it was a current article. I am hoping that new marriages like this will cease occurring. But...unfortunately I think they won't go completely away any time soon. LGBT people may live in conservative places, or have overly conservative families, or... And, of course, past that, there are plenty of marriages that already exist, and no telling when the "time bomb" might go off. I also never have been married. I do feel like a freak among Later in Life types: I'm only out to myself in the last year or so, but I've never been married. Most men my age would either have been fully out to themselves since, say, their 20s, or else have ended up in a marriage. That said, yes, not being married makes it easier in one way. I think particularly for me in that I don't think I'd be the type to rock the boat. I'd probably just suffer in silence... At the same time, though, I'm not sure that it makes the overall process "easy." Easier in one way, yes. But I have my own problems and challenges that some who've had straight marriages don't have. And for the lemons to lemonade part: LGBT people who've had a straight marriage may have some advantages that I don't. Relationship skills that would apply to any type of marriage, for example. ---------- Post added 26th Jun 2014 at 12:44 PM ---------- And even though the article talks about married men, there are some things that sound familiar to me... Like the talk about a world you don't know. Admittedly, I know little about dating/relationships given that I've never even had a single casual date. :tears: But because our society is the way it is, straight relationships would have seemed less unfamiliar. Also the talk of loneliness sounded familiar, although for me the situation is quite a bit different (I have a total lack of any real friends), and not entirely a problem related to sexual orientation. But past that, I could see real problems attempting dating.
I do not speak from experience. From what I've seen, it can be monetary, it can be post-menopausal when sex isn't as important, it can be societal, and it can be a cultural expectation. It's interesting the article features a photo from the movie "Far From Heaven." It is an excellent movie and Julianne Moore and Morgan Freeman really shine. The Closed Loop Relationship is a new term, but not a new concept. I don't think the outside relationship is that much of a relationship as it is a side dish or a FWB arrangement. There is also a problem when such a situation ends and a replacement has to be found. Also, if one of the same sex parties in the situation gets tired of the sex and goes outside of the boundaries, it can introduce a health risk into the situation and also adversely affect the unknowing opposite sex spouse.
I completely agree, it's really a messy "arrangement" for lack of a better term, but, apparently it works for some (really open-minded people) no doubt!
GW, The timing of this article has re-broken my heart. It has been a tough day. I am such a man as this article describes, minus the morally questionable extramarital closed loop agreement. I've managed near monogamy for 28 years with a wife who always knew I was gay. Neither of us ever really understood what that meant. Our mutual homophobia kept me closeted, but emotionally unavailable. My recent coming out spurred my wife to rekindle our sexual relationship which was enough to make me think I could remain happily married but gay indefinitely. It appears the price turned out to be too high for us both. Monogamy in her eyes means my exclusive mental devotion. The porn wasn't so hard to give up because it is clearly mind bending and distractingly supportive of fantasy over reality. It turns out gay specific self help books, social commentary movies and support groups like the EC are also off limits. The idea of retreating back into willful ignorance for the sake of my marriage has gradually become unbearable. Strangely, the thought of living without male sex is not nearly as offensive to me as the idea that I should be expected not to study, process and integrate the psychology of my own sexuality into my life. Tonight, I asked my wife to go to dinner with another couple who share our desire to maintain monogamy despite the gay husband complication. She accused me of seeking out a male sex partner and flatly refused. Later, when she found me browsing movies online, she stole my phone and researched the recommended movie list on my amazon account (which is currently predominantly gay and lesbian content - BTW, I strongly recommend Kawa & Private Romeo). Three of our adult children (two boys and one girl) were called in to mediate the resulting argument on my wife's behalf, followed by an all out attempt to recalibrate my brain with the expectation that I man up to the role of a husband and father. The evening left me physically overpowered, bruised and humiliated (I was not violent, but when my boys blocked me from my bedroom while they searched it, my trying to push past was interpreted as reason to tackle and restrain my like a criminal). In the end, my children decided that our marriage is unsalvageable - the very same conclusion I had come to back in March. I expected I would find myself ejected onto my own lawn, but here I sit in an empty house this early morning. I'm terrified that the common knowledge that I can soon be raped in court and will surely end up far lonelier as a single gay man has placated them. I'm no angel. I have an immature temper, thick emotional boundaries, an off-putting arrogance and I've been lying so long that I don't even trust myself. I begrudge my wife and children none of their bitterness. My family is not evil, nor are they innocents. I love them all, yet hold them as accountable for this ridiculous mess as I hold myself. Married gay men have been so wronged...and have wronged others so deeply... Back to the subject of this thread: Finding this article, besides giving me a place to vent, has brought a certain hopelessness into my day. The last few weeks I've been overwhelmed by the knowledge that I belong nowhere; not in the gay community, not in my own family, not in my conservative little hick town and not in the greater hetero nation; often not in my own head. This article peaks my fear of isolation, for I know more every day that I can't stay where I am and I don't want to go where I am headed. The beard is indeed too painful to remove. I can tell myself that a clean shave will bring new perspective and say 'this too shall pass', but today the vulnerability and exposure feels so painfully raw and naked. I'm only avoiding posting this now because I don't want to feel alone again. I need to stand up and walk forward, alone and with pride, for my own sake. I know many of you have made this walk already and I will imagine you walking with me just so I might feel strong enough not to turn around again. As always, thanks you all for the mental space to wander through my thoughts, Ted
Ted, I am sorry to hear about such cruelty. Nobody deserves it. You have every right to seek to be integrated, even if you remain married. You also have a right to have supportive friends, and a strong network is so important. Prayers and hugs sent your way! Earnest
Thanks Earnest, Your reply directly to me immediately worried me that I have hijacked GW's thread. I'm kind of in the mood to beg for conversation right now, but I can't enter the chat rooms. Out of respect for GW, if anyone wants to humor me in my lonely day of reckoning, maybe going to my page is a better idea.
Hey Brave Prince, What is it with people? Are we expected to swallow all the dirt thrown our way? Your wife and your children owe you, at the very least, respect. But that seems to be beyond possible. The prospect of loneliness is nothing compared to the prospect of being disrespected and humiliated, this is not something that ought to be tolerated. I feel for you BP, all I can say at this point is that this is an opportunity like none other, "coming to terms" is the name of the game at this point, that crisis moment that will make all the difference. I wish you well, and remember, you are not alone. Be proud of who you are!
I believe you have a right to be hurt and upset. I agree that you are at a break thru point and to be proud of who you are. I dont mean to sound vengeful about your family but what they did to you is not right on any level. It's almost as if they were waiting for the chance to jump you literally and figuratively. My heart literally aches for you. I'm sorry I/we can't be there with you to comfort you but we care for you and you're not alone. Please reach out to someone you know and trust right away and if you don't have that I'm sure the site administrators should have resources you can reach out to. When you communicate with them it is private. Stand Strong my brother. ---------- Post added 30th Jun 2014 at 11:19 PM ---------- My heart literally aches for you. What your family did is wrong on so many levels. It almost seems like they had planned in advance for this type of moment. I know that you feel very overwhelmed trying to process of this. I would suggest that your priority right now is to take care of yourself and get to a place of safety if at possible. It just may be that you need to pack your stuff and out of that house so the raw memories of what just happened can be put into perspective. These are are just suggestions. Stand tall my brother as you are not alone. ---------- Post added 30th Jun 2014 at 11:29 PM ---------- I'm sorry for the duplication, phone is giving me fits
Y'all are right. That article doesn't seems very hopeful for us Later in Life men..Still, I'm still going to press forward. I'm trying to cultivate an attitude of choosing to be happy with what ever happens. A single man who has a a child, activities he enjoys, and continues to explore his existential, spiritual journey. If I find a male partner, I'll do the same things, just with someone to enjoy them with.
I honestly have felt pessimistic about the situation Later in Life people are in for some time... Subtract the men who are married, plan to stay that way, even if they have sex with other men on the side. Subtract the gay men who were programmed by a different era not to ever think about relationships, but just a lifetime of hookups. And, of course, there is the low percentage of gay men vs. straight men. That said...the situation is not necessarily hopeless. As this forum shows, there are decent Later in Life men who are interested in real relationships. And that is probably the best attitude.
