Greetings, This article: Communities Vs. Networks: To Which Do You Belong? | The Art of Manliness ...has some really interesting things to say about the proliferation of networks as pseudo-communities: Obviously, by the above criteria, EC is a network, not a community. The article is clear, however, that networks are neither good nor bad, it is simply important NOT to call it a community. That question above: "if I left the group would anyone know I was gone?" is especially consistent with the network mentality. I truly am divided into little parts, according to the network I belong to. This is why I am involved in my own community, this is why this network or FB or any other is no substitute for being in a place where my whole being is known and where I know others' whole selves...starting with their names. Don't get me wrong (please!) EC is terrific and necessary, but it is simply insufficient for integrating into what I had referred to elsewhere as integration into the homosocial context. Being in a community is first and foremost, demanding. You are expected to contribute and this is sometimes a pain in the tuchus, but that is part of being in a healthy social environment. There are no substitutes for knowing others and being known by them, in all our flawed totalities...
I am part of networks in my town and not very much involved in a community. When I went to counselling in January my counselor said that for me i don't have a community that I can feel comfortable belonging to in my home town. I don't really have anyone I can rely on if I get ill I have to look after myself. I do have a nice job and live in a nice area but if i left I don't think many people would be bothered, I can be easily replaced. A community is where people know you, understand your life and have things in common with you. This is also a problem in the UK with regard to housing, a lot of social housing is being sold off so there is a big imbalance between the people living there. People also live in one area and work in another so they never get to know their neighbours. People do need to belong to a community. I am hoping to move to a different town with more gay events so I can get involved with gay people and be known as part of a group as a gay person. For me I think the way I am going to meet a partner is if I find a group of friends that I can hang out with on a regular basis not just once a month at the pub.
Good article like usual, greatwhale. My one complaint is that I do think there is a place for "networks." How much of a place depends on the structure of the network. EC, for example, serves a definite need. And while one can be cynical about Facebook--and I certainly can be--it can be a useful tool. It has allowed me to stay in contact with family and one old high school friend a lot more easily than was once the case. Also community has limitations. One, for example, is that it does depend on a number of members in a physical location to thrive or even survive. As much as I whine about the lack of LGBT offerings in my area, maybe there just isn't the interest. And another dark side of community is that often you have to be accepted by the others in the community. Trust me, I'm very conscious of this, given how hard it is for me to make connections with other people in the real world. While that is my problem, and may be something wrong with me, I have to think it's a problem/issue that will impact others as well.
Very true what you said about communities, it is often like dating, there is an element of luck. I found it poignant that the article starts with the reason combat veterans miss the front lines. It's not the combat they miss but the camaraderie of their fellow soldiers. When they come back home they join the general pool of disconnected people of which we all form part. Only they know how good it can be to know others and be known by others so deeply. It must truly be jarring to lose that, especially when they need that support the most. I would also like to point out that we too often seek to explain our lack of social success on ourselves. This is no accident. I strongly believe that this is the outcome of psychotherapy's obsessive focus on the individual, divided from the context of his or her environment. What if it isn't you? What if it is, as the article states, a general impoverishment of community life? That is a much bigger problem to solve... America once had a very vibrant community culture (imperfect, certainly, but generally for the greater good). There were associations for everything under the sun, people were expected to join and contribute to these things...Rotary clubs and the like are a vestige of that. I feel, in a sense, privileged for being gay because there is a community of like-minded people with whom I have formed friendships. No better way to join these things other than giving of oneself in both time and, yes, money.
I won't argue that veterans miss camaraderie. I'm sure that is a huge thing. But it also occurs to me that there are other reasons men might have missed military life. Some might miss eating "Shit on a Shingle." On a darker side, some might miss the opportunity of legally killing other people. (Sort of Alfred Hitchcock TV show like, yes, but I'm sure it's happened.) Some might have liked military life because it gave them a chance to get away from their wife. Also...this is only speculation, but I have to wonder if years back one problem with returning to civilian life was how restrictive things were for men in terms of their emotional lives. The ideal man of the 50s I gather had as many emotions as a marble statue. I suspect that men were expected to be "real men" in the Army, but I wonder if the stress of the situation didn't make it more acceptable to have feelings, at least of fear of death. ---------- Post added 2nd Jul 2014 at 01:10 PM ---------- I honestly don't know how much blame is mine. I have had a lifetime trouble with making friends. But...a certain amount of blame must go to the community as well. Someone I casually know has commented that he's noticed the same problem with connecting with others. He said he noticed it when he lived elsewhere, but thought it was just that city. But when he moved here, he noticed the same patterns. There is something about modern society, he said, where people get wrapped up in a limited world of their own lives. And also another problem that can crop up is limited ability to tolerate others who are different. We do the political correctness thing, but we, as a society, aren't very good about trying to do more than that. ---------- Post added 2nd Jul 2014 at 01:24 PM ---------- And this may be too conspiracy theory like, but I have to wonder if the lack of community isn't just what some like. It's easier when the slaves are totally disconnected in the real world... Now I'm off to look for black helicopters. :lol:
I think it's a very valid and meaningful distinction and one of the things I have learned here on EC is how lucky I am to have ended up somewhere where there really is a gay community. I was raised Mormon in Utah--I really was part of a community. When my mother first started chemotherapy people brought in dinner to my parents every night for 3 months--there was literally a sign up schedule. My parents and their neighbors really do relate to each other and take care of each other. If I had had to give that up without finding another community (and it seems that many people here really don't have a gay community to turn to) I think my life would have gone very differently. I am intensely grateful for that sense of community in gay life. I was able to show up, say I'm gay and I'm not sure what to do and people took me under their wing and showed me around and took me in. In many respects it really was like moving and showing up at the local church and saying I'm Mormon too take me into your hearts and lives. I love that sense of instant belonging--I love that it can be there even with people you don't know and aren't even planning to, that sort of amazing sense of "oh yeah, me too" that can pass between gay people in even the most remote aspects of life, that sense that I don't know you but I'm gonna look out for you because well we're all in this ridiculous thing together. I remember the first time my partner and I went to Vegas, we had read about the "twenty dollar trick" which is basically a strategic way of tipping/bribing your way into a better room than you paid for. We wanted to try it but I was uncomfortable. Finally I agreed with my partner that we would try it if we got the obviously gay clerk. Well we got him and I still lost my nerve. Anyway, the guy hardly even looked at us--he was focused on his screen until it came time to ask if we wanted one bed or two. In unison we responded one. The clerk paused, cocked his head, then looked us up and down slowly, smiled broad and said "good answer, now let's get you boys a better room." It's not always as dramatic as that but it's there all the time that sense of "yeah me too--I'll look out for you." I love it. I'm grateful for the community I grew up in and grateful for what they have been for my family and I'm grateful for the community I have found and how they have taken me in and helped me build a full and meaningful life.
I feel, in a sense, privileged for being gay because there is a community of like-minded people with whom I have formed friendships. No better way to join these things other than giving of oneself in both time and, yes, money.[/QUOTE] "Originally Posted by greatwhale" But what if you are cut off from this community and don't know any other gay people in your town. It is important for gay people to be around other gay people and when you can't do this it can be extremely lonely and isolating.
Completely agree; geographical proximity is a foundation of real-life communities. I can relate to this from a Jewish perspective: there are Jewish neighbourhoods, usually around a synagogue, why? Well, for orthodox communities anyway, it is not permissible to use a car on the Sabbath. It is built-in to Jewish law that you are not supposed to travel far on the Sabbath. What this promotes is spontaneous face-to-face meetings with other like-minded Jews, it is actually encouraged to just drop by to a friend or neighbour unannounced (can't use the phone on the Sabbath either). So the (long-term) solution to the loneliness and isolation is to move to places with other gay people, not easy, but this is the best option.
And welcome to my world. The only consistent interaction I have with other LGBT people is EC. If I go to a Pride event this month, it could well be the last time I have real world LGBT interaction this year. Apart, of course, from dealing with individuals who may cross my path. But with most of those people who knows if they are even gay? For that matter, there are no guarantees about the Pride event. I may have zero interaction with other people. And even if I do, there may be no guarantee that that person is LGBT. A booth may be staffed by someone who is gay. Or it may be staffed by someone who is there because they are a straight ally. Or because they are getting paid to be there. ---------- Post added 3rd Jul 2014 at 12:23 PM ---------- And I know I've whined along these lines before... But I honestly am honestly so frustrated that I'm about to pull the plug on searching for anything LGBT. A part of me even wonders how important it actually is for me, too. Yes, I'll need to find a gay man if I'll ever have a relationship, but, at the same time, I'm not in a place where a relationship seems very viable at this point. So...until I reach that point, is "network" based "community" enough? ---------- Post added 3rd Jul 2014 at 12:26 PM ---------- I loved this story! ---------- Post added 3rd Jul 2014 at 12:35 PM ---------- And trust me, the idea of moving has occurred to me more than once. But the practical logistics are a nightmare. I'd have to somehow be able to have better cash flow--Seattle is expensive. And then the hassle of moving up there. All with zero community support--and by zero I mean zero, not just no LGBT, but also no friends or connections to even help me load a U Haul. I have, more than once, envied a cousin who moved to her home city a few years ago because all the cards were stacked in her favor. She's married, and she and her husband was able to arrange a transfer with his company to the new city. I think she had her parents come out to help her move. I believe they lived a while with her parents until they were able to find the right place to live. I know I probably come across as whiny, but I do sort of wish that I didn't have to fight this war all on my own. Maybe what the "gay community" should do is start a relocation assistance program...
Of course! The Network is not an evil, per se, it fulfils an important need for the many of us who don't have anything else! As for going to pride, if you deem it worth your while; do you know of any volunteering opportunities for the event? This may be a sure fire way to at least get to know the people you would be working with.
The people putting on the actual event I might go to are calling for volunteers. But the times don't work for my schedule. Because of transit realities, I'd be only able to be there the early part of the afternoon. That would only be a partial volunteer shift, plus I do want time to wander around a bit and see some of the attractions.
Hello BMC77, I can completly understand what you are saying with regards to being lonely and isolated, I am scared all the time that I will always be alone and never have any other gay people to talk to. But I do think that we need to start by doing little things to make life easier for ourselves. Such as going and visiting a more gay friendly town, I went to Hebden Bridge which is supposed to be a very gay friendly town in the UK but I spent the whole week there alone and didn't speak to anyone. It made me realise that I did need to be in a town with a regular community that I could become a well known member of. Now I am trying to move to the other side of the country to try to find some kind of Gay community. I am also completly alone with no family support but I know that if I don't go I will always be on my own and never find a relationship. By doing little things towards what you want, such as visiting a cafe with a rainbow flag outside it helps you work towards what you want in the long term. If you can volunteer for a few hours at least you would have spoken to a few other people. A few hours are better than nothing and you could find out about other events / groups that you wouldnt have known about otherwise. You have to start somewhere.
