hello all. i need some perspective. i am suffering from gay guilt. a fellow empty closeter told me about brennee (sp?) browns youtube video on shame. i watched it. i could relate and it sat in very well with me at the time. however, after watching it time has passed and the old gay guilt is back. much of the guilt revolves around family and loved ones that have passed away that all thought very highly of me and did not know my "secret" or if they did, never let on that they new since they would mention when was i going to get married, etc. i feel an overwhelming sense of shame when i think about them and how i was supposed to keep the family legacy going in the traditional sense (husband and wife) and how they worked so hard to better theirselves and in a way i feel as i (being gay/bi) am doing a disservice to their legacy and shaming them in a way. if i am at anything gay i wonder, "what would my grandparents think of me dancing with a guy or kissing a guy, etc.?" i think of how ashamed and sad they would be of me and it hurts me. i know they loved me and never said anything bad about me but i can't help but to think they worked so hard to get where they were and somehow by just being "me" i am erasing all their hard work or putting shame upon my family. my rationale mind knows that in a family many people have skeletons and things that they are hiding that nooone else knows but it makes me feel like mine is the worst. i also do not know any other gay people in my entire family past or present. there were two gay men from generations ago in my family that i know about and let's just say people didn't have nice things to say about them because they were gay. as hard as i try to build my self esteem as a man who is attracted to other men, it all seems to shatter when i think of my deceased loved ones and even my current family. i feel like the kid that was so smart and showed promise but later did not finish high school or college and everyone thinks ended up a failure or was disappointed in them. although that is not my story, that is how i feel. any advice on how you move past the gay guilt?
Sorry for being insensitive but one way is to just not give a F and accept things as they are. Sorry again for that straight answer but you just have to accept things. There's only so much that you can do, and being gay is beyond our control... It's who we are. So one way or another, you've got to accept who you are and not feel guilty about it. If your family truly loves you, they'll accept it... At least you've been honest with them. If that too much of a risk, then bask in the guilt. It's still your choice one way or another... All the best
Hi, First, just for clarity of communication, what you're feeling is shame, not guilt. Shame is the sense that you are fundamentally a bad person, while guilt is the feeling of doing something bad. ("Im a worthless piece of shit for drinking too much and missing my morning meeting" vs "Wow, that was a bad choice to drink last night knowing I had to get up for this meeting.") So the shame, at its core, is the belief that you aren't worthy of love and belonging. And given that the issue is with deceased loved ones, perhaps the best proxy you can have to their actual feelings is to talk to people who knew them really well. What I wager you will find is that they were caring people who wanted the best for you, and for you to be happy. Which also means... being OK with you loving another guy, if it's what makes you happy. In my experience, often the shame we place on ourselves about what our deceased ancestors would believe is sort of a "red herring" about fundamentally not loving and believing in ourselves. So usually that's the first place to work on. There are plenty of gay men that marry their boyfriends and adopt or otherwise have chiildren and raise them and have a traditional family life in every way. And many more that make contributions to the world in one of many different ways, leaving a legacy of their family and themselves behind them. And in the grand scale of things... what really matters isn't so much the sex of the person we love, but who we touch, what messages, works, memories, and legacies we leave behind... not whether or not we carry on a family name linked solely by genetics. I think what you're feeling is fairly normal self-esteem/shame stuff associated with early coming out. Rewatching Brené's videos, talking about what you're feeling (as you're doing here) and realizing that you are enough, exactly as you are today are probably the first steps.
I think its selfish of them to make you feel guilty for being who you are. You're just as capable of carrying on your family legacy, being successful, etc. as if you were straight. What your grandparents might think would be colored by the fact that they lived so long ago. If they grew up today, probably in a city, there is a good chance they'd be far more accepting of homosexuality.
Just working through the early stages of coming out myself, offmychest. Don't really have any advice yet -- but wanted to say: you're not alone. Hope you find some peace and answers...
It appears that you gained a lot of self-worth from what your family members, both alive and deceased, thought of you. It appears that they thought highly of you. What do you think of you? You may also perhaps ask why their validation of you was, and apparently still is, important to you. It's normal to want to please the people who love us, it is commendable that you feel this deep loyalty to your family and to their legacy. But nevertheless, you are not their possession, you are not responsible to them. The shame that Chip spoke about is the result of the gap between what you know, deep down, what you are, and what you think you "should" be. That belief, that somehow you don't measure up to some family ideal is what is causing so much disturbance. I don't know any ideal families, or ideal people. It might be useful to consider that what they may have expected of you as "ideal" from the past may not be what they would expect of you now, given the current environment of increasing acceptance. Perhaps they would have valued more your own integrity; and you following your own path in life. Moreover, you need to ask yourself whether you are using these phantoms of deceased relatives to avoid the difficult task of confronting the contradictions in your own mind about what you are and what you ought to be. We take a stand here that being what you are is far, far better than living up to someone else's idea of who you are.
Your post made me wonder to what degree feeling shame is a choice. I too have grandparents who have passed who would be very disappointed if they knew the truth. Knowing how they'd feel, I could definitely beat myself up and make myself miserable by thinking about their opinions of me. I choose not to do that. My misery doesn't benefit anyone. Not my grandparents who have passed, not my kids, not my extended family, not my friends or co-workers, and certainly not me. Feeling shame serves no productive purpose. On the other hand, I don't feel like will-power can banish shame. It's a powerful, deep emotion. When it rears its ugly head, the best I can do is try to rationally manage it, which is not the same as ending it. Perhaps one of the benefits of being in the closet for so long is that I learned to compartmentalize. That's helped with shame. When I feel it, I put it in a box and keep it contained. It's there, and I know it's there, but I'm making the choice to not let it overwhelm me. I have a happy, productive life to lead. Shame, in no way, helps me do that. Whenever possible, I try to avoid it.
The cultural expectation to "go forth and multiply" worked well for our distant forebears, when the human race was largely just tribes scattered across a largely uninhabited globe. But now, the Earth is bursting at the seams with human beings, and I have to be honest, every person who chooses not to have children, is doing the Earth's ecosystems, and thus Humanity, a big favour. As for what they would have thought about you dancing with or kissing a guy, etc, well you can't help how other folks feel about stuff. The essential question is, how do you feel about it? I know how I feel about it - I think it sounds sweet.
All of my grandparents died before I came out (it just happened that way) and I can only surmise how they might have felt. Maybe they would have felt a sense of shame, or maybe not? I just don't know. I loved them dearly, but how can I ever know how people who have passed away might have felt about my sexuality? It's an impossible conundrum of thoughts and feelings and I could spend many hours contemplating it and still get nowhere and the same is true for you. To indulge in such a train of thought is going to do no good whatsoever. All I know for sure, is this.. My grandparents all lived and served in the Second World War - to preserve freedom and protect minorities (like us) from persecution and tyranny. I know how important that was to them and I'm proud of the role they played. I don't know what they experienced or witnessed during the war as they would never talk about it, but I take something from the thought that my freedom, as a gay man is thanks to their efforts and the sacrifices of their service colleagues. I'm living proof of the ideals they fought for and you are too. It could be that your feelings are more deeply connected to an inner struggle which is being played out through this scenario and you are latching on to a story about two gay men from generations ago to validate the shame. It's a false comparison in so many ways, but when you are caught up in the midst of it all you don't see it. Maybe you need us to help point it out to you?
Hello offmychest, above all else please absorb that you are a person of infinite value and worth and are worth being loved and admired. I've dealt with these issues quite a lot and they were part of why I waited so long to come out. For me I finally came to the place where I just couldn't bear the stress of meeting others expectations (family or friends) whether passed on or alive. You are not a disappointment!! Brother you are not erasing all their hard work or putting shame upon your family... you couldn't even do it if you wanted to. Rather you are building a new branch in the family tree that will grow and strive... for the good. Our sexuality is not on a sliding scale of good to worst. Your sexuality is a gift and is to be valued. For me the "guilt/shame" subsided when I internally realized that by being me, I am doing the family an honor by standing up and being true to myself. For me the shame would come by living a life that wasn't true... I've done that long enough. One other thing that helped me with this issue is coming to the understanding that my sexuality is my business and don't have to share with anyone unless I choose to. I've rewritten this post many times and hope that it's meaning and emotion are clear. (*hug*)
Neither willpower, compartmentalizing, nor denying shame is an effective strategy. You can try and push it down or stick it in a box, but the problem is, over time, it just makes it worse. That's what we see with the really homophobic people that get caught with male prostitutes, or the vehemently anti-gay politicians and the like. Basically, shame needs secrecy, scarcity and judgment to thrive, and if you think about it, pushing it down or away feeds directly into all of those. But the contrast is, when we expose our shame to light -- talk about it, own it, admit it -- that dramatically reduces it. So in this case, the OP's decision to discuss it is the best thing he could have done. For those who stay closeted out of fear of judgment or rejection, there can be valid reasons for doing so in the short term (getting parents to support you through college, for example) but short of that, the shame will eventually eat at us from the inside and continue to cause more damage to self-esteem and self-worth. There's no question it's scary to walk into that shame, but what we find consistently is, the fear of walking into those dark areas is consistently greater than the actual discomfort of being there once we've made the decision. In this case, learning to love who we are and not attaching our value to what others think of us is key. That's important whether our family or friends hate us or adore us; any time we attach our self-worth to someone else's opinion, it's dangerous because if their opinion changes... our self worth goes in the toilet. All of this is easier said than done but it is important to understand that it's something to focus on and work toward over time, not something we simply change overnight.
thanks everyone for the kind words. yes, part of me uses my deceased and living loved ones as "scapegoats" for me not to live my own life. the reality is one day i too will transition and does that mean i should live my life not living because of what someone else will think? doesn't make a lot of sense but then feeling "wrong" has been so beat into my brain that it seems hard to switch gears. now that i pretty much know i like men and that i want to be with a man, i'm not quite sure what do with that. sexually, i am VERY scared to do much of anything partyly due to diseases and party due to not wanting to be "like them".....the sterotypical promiscious guy that hooks up with everyone. i do not want to slip into that cycle and many of the guys i have met are definitely in that cycle. yes, i know there are plenty that are not im just figuring out what it means to be bi/gay and what that means in terms of my identity. i clung to straightness for so long that it felt natural. being around gays often feels very unnatural to me in terms of the types of guys i meet but in general, i'm trying to sort it all out. i know that this is a long road and i know that other guys are years behind me and years ahead of me. so that makes me feel like i am making some progress at least.
