Setting up a regular “Gay Night Out” within an open relationship.

Hi Folks, I mentioned the other day that I intended to raise the subject of me going to a regular support group at the local LGBT centre to start to meet guys in a “controlled” social environment and hope this will lead to her eventual acceptance of me meeting guys socially on an individual basis as a stepping stone to a FWB arrangement.

I eventually found the right moment and told her of my plans; her initial reaction was as though I had hit her, probably followed by blind panic that I was getting ready to leave her. I think that giving her a year to let the dust settle was too long and that she has probably assumed that chatting to folks online and looking at porn was sufficient for all my needs.

After a while she calmed down and said that she realised that I would need real life friends and the conversation switched to concerns of me going to the gay village, her concerns were as follows.

• Someone may recognise me going into/coming out of the LGBT centre and report back to her or her parents. She seemed more concerned that she would then have to explain she knows and we are in an open relationship.
  
  
• I could meet someone that she knows professionally that I may later bump into at one of the many events she organises that I sometimes attend. Well I guess I’ll just have to hope if that happens the other guy is discrete. In fact we have already sort of been in this situation with a guy from the film crew she works with whom I got talking to after some mutual checking out and the exchange of the “look”. As far as I know he’s not said anything and she seemed ok with me talking to him… But she didn’t know he knew I was gay.
  
  
• She is worried about me being followed from the LGBT centre and being gay bashed before I get back to the car. I don’t particularly feel unsafe walking through the gay village but you never know; my best friend (the one in the baby oil incident) was beaten up in the past under unexplained circumstances that he refused to talk about and everyone thought at the time he’d been gay bashed even though he wasn’t out.
  
  
• I think her main worry is what she tells her parents if they call round and I’m out at this group when I’m not out to them, I guess I’ll have to join a different photography club or go to a different meditation class or something.
  

So, despite her reservations, overall it’s a good step forward in firming up the rules of our open relationship. The group meets every week so I intend this to set the foundation for a regular “gay night out”, the first of several each week I hope, ultimately leading to regular FWB fun with a handful of friends. I don’t quite know when I’ll get to the first meeting because of some other family commitments but I’ll let you know when I do go.


Sale Gay Guy

 

Hi jnr183 and Yossarian

Thanks for coming back guys, and to others who have private messaged me. I know that open relationships are hard and 70% fail but I’m determined to give it my best shot and be as open as possible with my wife but that has to include me being able to at least for a small part live as a gay guy.

Yossarian, wow you have a very understanding wife, I don’t think my wife would be happy at me wrestling with a gay guy in the lounge sex involved or not (now you have my mind working in overdrive). I like your phrase “Pre-printed sexuality labels don't work too well for me” on your profile page and at this point in my life I would apply that statement to myself.

For those reading on the side lines that are in a similar situation to me, the sex columnist Dan Savage gave a presentation on Monogamy available on YouTube at the following address. Festival of Dangerous Ideas 2013: Dan Savage - Savage Advice - YouTube

He makes a point 6 – 10 mins into the presentation about couples who have been in a multi-decade marriage shouldn’t necessarily breakup just because one partner needs something outside the primary relationship, have a listen it’s an interesting 1 hour talk. He also points out that sometimes when we make commitments to monogamy we don’t always know at the time that we can’t keep them, I take this to mean in my case that I didn’t know I was gay when I got married.

SGG

 

Hi BeingEarnest

I suppose that an open relationship can mean different things to different folks, and for starters we are talking about a mixed orientation marriage or MOM as it’s often described with an open relationship on top. I have researched this at some length and have to tell you that the odds are stacked against us, it seems that a third of couples who try this end up splitting up after a few months, another third break up after 1 or 2 years, and only the last third or less succeed long term. Where MOMs succeed it would seem that complete openness, honesty, and clear agreed rules are the key to success. I suspect that the 2 biggest hurdles are jealousy and the very real danger of emotional entanglement with another guy.

Closely associated with Open-MOMs are “Closed-Loop Relationships” and Polyamorous marriages. I’m not overly familiar with the details but a closed-loop arrangement is where 2 gay men who are in straight marriages and (normally) out to their spouses have a relationship with each other which is based on more than sex. It’s possible that in this sort of relationship the straight wives can become friends and perhaps go shopping or out for a drink whilst their husbands get it on. I’m not entirely clear in my mind how this is different from swinging or a threesome (with the wife’s knowledge and consent) but I guess to do with the emotional attachment between the 2 guys that is present in closed-loop but not swinging. You can find a group on Yahoo that discussed this in detail, but it’s a private group and you will have to subscribe.

I don’t know anything about polyamory yet but I have been chatting with a local guy who is in an open 3 way relationship with 2 other guys. I’m hoping to meet up soon so I can get a better idea of how it works, what boundaries and rules exists, and how to deal with jealousy, so I’ll let you know what happens when we meet.

You asked what open means to me. For many years now our marriage has been sexless due to my wife losing all interest in sex and not because of me being gay, although I guess if I had been straight I would have been more insistent in us having sex than I was. When I came out to my wife I explained that in my opinion we were already in a mixed orientation marriage where she is asexual and I’m gay. We had in fact lived in an unconventional marriage for many years without outward problems so why should an open marriage be any different. Since sex is no longer part of our marriage she would not be losing or sharing that part of me with anyone else. We agreed that I could meet guys (she even said they should be good looking) for friendship and sex outside the marriage as long as I didn’t seek a long term relationship with then, that was for my wife only. We agreed that sauna sex, no strings attached NSA sex, or friends with benefits FWB would be the best route to satisfy my needs whilst keeping the risk of developing a relationship with another guy low.

My wife’s preferred arrangement would be a closed-loop arrangement, but since we also agreed I wouldn’t bring a guy home for sex, and presumably / understandably another guy in a closed loop would have come to the same deal with his wife, the opportunities for sex are somewhat diminished. Although I have encountered many married gay guys locally none of them are out to their wife so I’ve not been able to follow up on this.

I have however been in touch, but not yet met, several gay couples who are interested in friendship and fun i.e. inviting me into a threesome. I think this may well be the best compromise of giving me the friendship and intimacy that I need whilst reducing the risk of a long term relationship and at the same time be much safer than anonymous sex in a sauna.

Since coming out to my wife a year ago I have decided to let my wife get used to the idea of me having sex with guys, before I do, even though she said at the time she was ok with it because she didn’t want a divorce. I am hoping in the next month or so to get out and meet guys in real life and have sex with them with my wife’s knowledge, so I guess I will find out if our marriage can survive and we make it into the 1/3 of open marriages that succeeds.

I hope this has been of some help to you, please feel free to ask anything you want but please bear in mind my wife may be reading this thread at some point. If you have not encountered this website check it out Introduction - Married GayMarried Gay and also search the internet on Mixed-Orientation Marriages

SGG

 

Hi CB, first of all congratulations in ending up in a relationship, I hope it works out well for you both.

I do realise and fully accept that in the long run I may very well end up meeting Mr Right in some chance circumstance and things will come to a head between my wife and I, and I most likely will have to seek a divorce or possibly, but unlikely, enter a polyamorous arrangement. I totally get the depth of emotional isolation, I know how much I crave being with another guy .. it’s all I can think about 24/7 and is interfering with my work big time.

My reality right now is that I am totally dependent on my wife (and that makes me feel like a worthless pile of shit, I used to have a fantastic job with huge salary but now I’m starting from scratch with next to nothing) and don’t have a consistent income to afford to live anywhere else so couldn’t move out even if I wanted to. I don’t want to hurt my wife and she doesn’t want me to leave her for another guy, or if I’m completely honest commit suicide because of major depression.

Our best and quite frankly only option at the moment whether I, or any one else, like it or not, is for me to find some fun on the side to keep me sane in a way that is as least hurtful to my wife. I know that I can’t prevent a chance encounter but I’m going out of my way only to meet guys who specifically don’t want a LTR.

SGG

 

Thanks BeingEarnest for the kind words, we do indeed live in a complicated world. I hope that you also find a mutually agreeable solution.

I have also come across another website that may be of interest. glbtq >> social sciences >> Mixed-Orientation Marriages

SGG

 

You’re welcome.

I don’t know if you have Netflix but I came across a nice film that explored complex mixed orientation relationships called “The Sex of Angels” it’s rated 15 and is in Spanish with subtitles and is well worth a view. You can find it in the LGBT section or in foreign language films.

SGG

 

An Update

Just to recap, at the end of July I told my wife I was planning to go to a support group at the local LGBT centre each Wednesday in Manchester’s gay village and after some emotional reservations on her part she said she was ok with this. Because of family commitments I couldn’t go last week but was free to go this week.

Yesterday I reminded her over lunch that I planned to go to the group that evening and got an instant replay of her concerns of the previous week, but this time she seemed less emotional about it. After reassuring her that I wasn’t about to run off and leave her for some hot guy, and showing her where I was going on a map, I set off to the group. We agreed beforehand that I would call her periodically to assure her I had not been gay bashed or mugged and that I would be back before midnight if I stayed on for drinks.

I arrived in the gay village but this time I felt so different, this time I belonged. I had been on one or two occasions in the past to gay bars in the village before I was out to myself or wife and had felt uncomfortable being there just managing a quick drink before rushing off before anyone talked to me or anyone I possibly may have known had chance to see me. This time I was there with my wife’s knowledge, no sneaking about, no need to worry about being seen, and I had all the time in the world. I walked slowly and confidently through the village taking in all the eye candy available before arriving at the LGBT centre.

On arrival at the centre I was greeted and explained I was a new guy. I was taken aside for a private one to one explanation of what the group was all about, by one of the 6 volunteers who ran the group, before being taken into a large meeting room where I was introduced to some of the other members. I was given a yellow name badge, as opposed to a white one, identifying me as a new guy and encouraged to mingle.

The group of about 25 – 30 was of mixed age, race, colour, some out some not, some more sociable than others, most were around 30ish but range from 20s to 60s. Most of the group could be described as just regular guys with just a few more-flamboyant types, and to my surprise I spent quite some time talking to a younger guy with bright pink hair and an affected voice. The organisers had provided tea & coffee, a supply of LGBT information, and had left an ample selection of gay magazines on small tables. Chairs were arranged in a rough circle around the tables and it seemed that the new guys were evenly distributed around the room.

Everyone was friendly and I had no trouble getting stuck right in chatting to folks, most were intrigued by the fact I’m married and the group with my wife’s knowledge. At one point when the talking with one group died down I picked up and looked at some of the gay magazines. It felt so liberating to be able to thumb through the magazines, surrounded by a room full of guys, and being able to discuss the hot models etc. with the other guys. Towards the end of the 1 ½ hours session a member of the Manchester Pride organising committee gave a presentation on the upcoming 4 day pride festival at the end of the month, I was intrigued at the plans to convert a multi-storey car park into a dance venue.

When the formal meeting ended at the centre those that wanted to, including me, moved on to a gay bar round the corner used by the group so that group members who no longer needed support could meet old friends and meet the current batch of guys going through the group. I had one drink and chatted with some guys I had not had time to talk to in the formal meeting before heading home.

When I got home my wife was surprised, she had thought I would have been back much later so I’ve taken that as permission to stay out longer next time. She also asked me about the group and if I would be going back next week to which I replied yes and she didn’t object … So the world didn’t come to an end with me going to a gay bar and she still seems ok with it the next day. We did talk about pride and perhaps we may even go to watch the parade but she was a little more concerned if I went the event myself because her cousin sometimes goes to watch and my wife doesn’t want her to see me except in the crowd.



SGG