average guy?

I could imagine how much that would suck... you're right, most of us aren't exactly "average". But let it be known, I've heard multiple gay guys say they're more attracted to straight guys than anyone else, so don't give up hope!

 

Almost everyone is "average"; thats what makes it the average by definition. Be "exceptional" at being yourself.

 

You gotta be who you are. If you have to play a role to get a boyfriend, then the boyfriend doesn't even know you, right?

 

LOL

I admit, I have *zero* same-sex dating experience, and with my social anxiety there is *no* way I could go to a bar or anything. But, hook-ups sound both exciting, and terrifying.

 

Taking care of yourself and dressing nice is not something only gay men do/should do. If you were out on a date with me i'd probably think you're just too lazy.

As for the other "stereotypes" you described, those are all personal preferences and they differ from person to person.

The "oh let's go have sex" after the second date, thing... you can avoid by raising your dating pool criteria and avoiding gay bars/dating websites.

 

To be honest in over 20 years of being out, I've never met any gay guy who fit any of these stereotypes to the degree that you seem to be implying only applies to 'gays'.

My partner and I each pay $20 bucks (including tip) for our haircuts. Before that, we did Supercuts. I'm somewhat fussier than he is on this point, hence why I was paying $20 for a haircut (including tip) for years before convincing him to go to the guy we go to. Who until recently was working out of his house.

I dress in jeans and a polo shirt (all bought from Target, Sears, or Penny's or sometimes CostCo) at work. Outside of work, shorts and T-shirts or muscle shirts at home in the warm months, T-shirts and jeans in the cold months. Again, all purchased retail. My partner wears button down shirts, but either jeans or shorts depending on the weather. He also only shops basic retail.

Virtually every gay guy we know dresses pretty much the same as us, within some range of differing style likely based on personal taste or age or the like. This has applied to every gay guy I've known (or even just seen around) in my life.

While any of us can dress up if the situation warrants it (weddings, funerals, job interviews), I've yet to see a designer label of any kind on anybody. Not that I've been looking.

My partner works in theater,TV, and film, so we've been to a lot of plays, musical and otherwise and he likes opera and classical (so do a lot of straight guys btw). He's also a one-man construction team (carpentry, paint, electrical, lights, plumbing, car maintenance, and sound design) whose background is tech theater building sets and such. I like rock, metal, and sci-fi films with lots of special effects and gratuitous sex and violence, particularly if it has lots of well-muscled shirtless men. The film Mortal Kombat is a perfect example of my perfect film

Neither of us are all that 'into' travel, although we've done a couple cruises with his family and I go home to Alaska every few years.

I work out 5-6 days a week because I enjoy it (but I also enjoy good food, so have never been in danger of being mistaken for a model or having perfect abs). He walks the dog every day and that's it.

I used to love to dance, but I wouldn't call it a passion. I just didn't see the point in standing around a gay bar trying to talk to people over the music when you could be out on the dance floor riding the music - and it was fun and a wonderful stress reliever after a hard work week.

None of the gay men I know, or have known in the past, have been all that different from me in the above particulars. None of them have really fit all (or even some of) the stereotypes you list.

As far as the sex thing - I consider sex to be only slightly more intimate than a handshake and feel that most people place way to much importance on it, as if it were some transcendent overwhelming meaningful thing, instead of merely fun with friction.

I've had perfectly fine sex with guys without ever bothering to learn (or remember) their name. I've also had (and have) relationships in which we were/are totally monogamous, and I was/am totally happy with that.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you appear to only be able to find one type of gay guy in your area. Maybe a location or demographic thing? Or maybe where and how you're looking?

Todd

 

I went to a group for confidence building the other week and there were 20 or so gays and lesbians there and I couldn't of identified 9/10 of the gays on my 'gaydar' just normal looking folk.

 

Skiff my friend I believe I hear you loud and clear. I've often said that I was "terminally normal". LMAO

Our younger brothers here have made very valid points which I'm going to re-read. But I think you hit the nail when you say "I think I have to expand into dating pool into age groups that still have a large population of guys with LTR potential. (Over 30)". Most of my dating and LTR prospects have been in the 30-40's age range and have been rewarding whether for one night or or for longer.

One way I look at it is... Being gay is all about challenging stereotypes, no matter what the sexuality of the person/group putting them forward. I confronted one stereotype lately... the guy asked if I could still get an erection due to my age. I was both pissed off and laughing at the same time. He didn't mean anything wrong but it's a case in point. BTW I do better than some 10-20 years my junior. lol

I would suggest that our focus on finding LTR as the primary goal may not be well placed. For me, my LTR relationships over the years began as friends then progressed from there. Obviously each of us defines what "friends" mean (one time friend or a lifetime).

 

I tend to agree with Todd. While I know some of the guys Tom is talking about, in my experience they are quite a small minority. Most of the gay guys I know are just kind of average guys.

On the other hand. If you really are only encountering guys who are later in life and have never been in a serious relationship--well, I could see where that would be frustrating. It does seem like there would be some real challenges there which would make one less optimistic of a LTR working. On the other hand, again, most of the older gay guys I know--and I know a few (I'm mid forties, my partner is almost fifty)--who are single have been in relationships. People do die, and well, sometimes things just fall apart.

The other thing that I really do wonder sometimes when I read your posts, Tom, is how much of the feeling that you vent here comes out in your dating life. I couldn't say I really know you. Obviously I only encounter what you post here but the one thing I feel like I do know about you is that you find being stuck with gay guys as a dating pool very disappointing. I really do hope it isn't true that you generally dislike gay men, but I will say that it comes off that way, at least to me. And I wonder how much of that comes across in your dating life.

In over twenty years out and about in the gay world I've encountered a lot of people who don't like gay men in general. I've never taken it well. I've also encountered quite a few people who disliked gay men in general but professed to like me "because I wasn't like that"--I've never taken that much better to be honest. I feel a certain loyalty to the tribe and I think a lot of gay guys do. I know there's a lot of things the gay community could do better and I know there are plenty of rotten apples in the barrel but the fact of the matter is that I couldn't see myself being close friends with, let alone dating, someone who had a low regard for gay men (or women) in general. I'm not saying that is affecting your dating experience but I do wonder...

 

I'm really on the same page as far as the sexual expectations as that's been a continual thing with my dating experience.

I always find it interesting in the most frustrating way how often when we search for something we can't seem to find it and I think that fits often when what we search for is an long term relationship.

On my path to acceptance at various times in life I came across plenty of gay men who were exactly what I find attractive, exactly what I'm looking for in a partner now but of course now that I've become comfortable in my own skin and am looking to meet men like that I can't seem to find one anywhere. It's frustrating but I'm trying very hard not to push the issue and just be hopeful that something wonderful arrives when I'm not expecting.

 

Does it actually need defending? While it would have been better for him to have made his preferences clear up front so that you could have made an informed decision about dating him or not, that he prefers to have sex by the end of the second date is (in my judgement) only slightly more important than whether or not he likes the same food as you and rather less important than whether or not you have the same views/tastes in regards to pets. Determining if you are sexually compatible with each other is all just part of the process of getting to know someone who you might form a relationship with. Or just have some laughs and fun with, as the case may be.

If you have a particular preference for having your dating/potential relationships fall within certain parameters (like how many dates you want to go on before sex takes place), then that's all well and good. You are certainly entitled to whatever pattern of behavior makes you happy or fits within your values. But ultimately, all you are really stating is a matter of taste. It is no more important, nor any more 'morally' or 'ethically' superior, than the behavior pattern of the guy who wants to get it on by the second date. Or the guy who wants to get naked by the second hour.

If you and another guy like each other, but have different preferred patterns of behavior in regards to having sex, then that is something that has the potential to be discussed and negotiated. But in order for that to happen, you need to be clear on what your preferred pattern is as well and be up front about what that is. And you need to hold to that choice without judging (or giving the impression that you are judging) those who follow a different pattern of preferred behavior from yourself. Because no one appreciates being judged. And when we're busy judging people on the basis of trivialities (like how they dress, or whether they like to dance, or want to have sex by the second date), it makes it that much harder to see the important stuff. Like are they kind, honest, trustworthy, etc?

My 2c worth,

Todd

 

Just be happy with who you are. yes the world is full ofplain janes and Jims and they are the happiest people in the world. Remember for every pot there is a lid.

 

I'm glad to hear that you don't have a problem with gay men--I genuinely was not sure. What I was saying was really not so much that it was the case as that, at least in my experience, you often give that impression. And if you are doing so in your dating life, even unintentionally, it seems obvious to me that there would be repercussions. Even a whiff of that on someone would keep most guys I know from even considering someone as a dating partner--life's just too short.

As to the question of sex I'm kinda right there with Todd. it seems to me that you were both clear about what you wanted, those things didn't line up and you both moved on. In my book that's part of what dating was for--figuring out who was and wasn't a good match as a partner, who was and wasn't a bit of fun etc. I was generally speaking a third date kinda guy. Don't get me wrong I was up for an occasional no strings, no prospects tumble. But if we were going to date, if I was really getting to know you in the hopes that it might be something more--not until at least the third date. Sure I encountered people who didn't want to wait. I never held it against them. I mean in my book somebody wanting to sleep with you is almost an unqualified good--doesn't mean you have to sleep with them back. Some guys were willing to wait some weren't and whichever way it went we learned something about each other--no harm no foul. Interestingly the only exception I made to my rule was the last "first date" I was on--almost seventeen years ago. My partner and I slept with each other on the first date--broke every rule--sometimes the chemistry's just too intense. Whatever...

 

I understand the perspective that few of you are coming from. Admittedly I do have what may be perceived as an out dated view of 'sex' but to me it's not just the expectation it's the putting across that you are something less if you don't succum to the pressure.

Lots of people on apps/dating sites put it right there in the headline which is cool if you're not into that then simply move along but there are other cases like an experience I had where there was conversation specifically about getting to know one another-a coffee date-a drive home talking in his truck-then a follow up text days later about how put off he was that I wouldn't go down on him the night we went out.

There was no physical interaction through the night, he never so much as tried to kiss me nor me him but some how there was this expectation/dissapointment that I didn't just perform.