This level of intimacy.

People on EC know more about me than anyone ( live people ) know and probably will ever know. I think it's because we can be ourselves and remain anonymous?
Not sure what your question is either :icon_wink but I think you are extremely capable of being as deep as anyone else. I follow your posts and besides being extremely entertaining, they are also very understanding and nonjudgmental. You have a very insightful way of looking at people and their situations. From what you have described, about you do seem to be very well adjusted and stable. I would feel confident confiding in you, knowing that you would be honest and unselfish in your response.
You have shared a very deep part of yourself in this post… at least I feel as if I know you better and would welcome being your friend.
I hope this makes sense…(*hug*)

 

I think you sound like perfectly well adjusted person. I am actually reading a book by Pema Chodron, a Buddhist nun, about how to be more like you! She writes about feeling our feelings, acknowledging them and letting them go. So when you say you do not have “deep emotions”, I think maybe you do not let yourself get ensnared in the drama emotions bring about when people become so focused on them. And learning to live in the present and not worrying about the future is what I am trying to do. We don't have any control over the future and most people, including myself, find this to be frightening. That you are able to live happily, in the moment, speaks to your wisdom.

 

Well, Really, I definitely meet your desire for a responder older than 14. Hell, my youngest child is older than 14! And while I won't be egotistical enough to claim to understand your question when you have yet to fully form it in your own mind, your foreword to that as-yet unformed question rang a number of bells in my mind.

Throughout my life, I've liked to have considered myself a deep thinker, but primarily in an existential way, never quite so introspective. When I split with my ex I was pretty much resigned to the fact that I'd never have another relationship because I never wanted to get that close (and we were actually very superficial - in the sense that we only ever scratched the surface of any issues - never delved deep) to anyone ever again.

Even family and life-long friends know very little about my thoughts and desires. They were all shocked to learn how long I'd been unhappy in marriage, because I never share those kinds of intimate details. I'm very private. I was raised under the rule that you never discuss sex, politics, religion or money in polite company - and I always strove to be polite.

More than a year after we split, I mentioned to my ex that I thought I had problems with intimacy. I could easily share any number of details about myself with anyone, like reading headline news, but if they ever dared poke or prod or pursue, I would slam the door shut. Over the year since splitting up I had realized that I only ever opened myself up to people with whom it would be impossible to ever get close. All my friends were "safe". To a one, they all had some circumstance in their life that would keep them at arm's distance.

My ex told me he always thought I refused to allow myself to be vulnerable. This was probably the deepest, most meaningful conversation we'd ever had in a quarter century of knowing each other. I was shocked when he said it, despite the fact that I knew he was right.

Since then, I have begun seeing a woman who not only encourages that level of communication, she needs it. She's a therapist by trade and the ability to communicate openly is a requirement with her. But the greatest thing is that, with her, I WANT that too. I want to allow myself that level of intimacy. Feeling vulnerable with her doesn't mean I feel unsafe or at risk, it just feels like laying bare. Opening my heart and soul to her doesn't exactly come naturally - I've been too closed for too long for that - but it feels right!

So all I can say is that you just need to be patient. Not only will the question become clear even to yourself in time, but when you meet the right person (or people), opening yourself up to greater intimacy will come - and it will feel right.

 

Littleliongirl, your post truly made me smile and warmed my heart. What an awesome dynamic you have with your current significant other. I have found that intimacy with people who I know and see day is very difficult. I believe that some people by nature don't want to open up to others and then there are some who maybe share too much. With people who I am close to it takes me a long time to get to a point with them where I feel I can open up and "bare my soul" so to speak. With me, to truly know me it is a privilege that I feel has to be earned--and I can say very little people in my life have earned this privilege. I don't think that I am better than anyone else, but I do believe that being that real with someone requires a level of trust to let down ur walls and let someone in. On here it's easier than in "real life" because of the anonymity that the boards give us. We can be a little freer with providing information bc (for me at least) if someone doesn't like what they read they may not say anything or they may and you can easily ignore their post and move on. Intimacy with another is an amazing experience. Takes a frienship to another level of realness. I cherish these connections.

 

Wow, you sound a lot like me. I've never been good at opening up. I don't even like seeing what's in there myself let alone telling somebody else about. I don't like feeling vulnerable. I have deep emotions, but dunno how to express them so I bury them. I'm far more sensitive than I let on.

Like you I live for the day, never really thinking all that far ahead. It frustrates my parents. They'll ask me what I want to do with my life and I just dunno. I wish I had an answer.

Most of it for me is fear. I fear getting hurt....or trying to do something but failing. I think part of my reluctance to open up is due to my disability. I'm already physically vulnerable and weak and I don't like showing vulnerability from inside as well.

Online I'm like a different person. I'm open, engaging, funny....and honest. Its like I've been repressing myself my whole life. Its easier I guess cause if things go south I just hit delete. They dunno where I live etc. Also its easier for me to convey deep thoughts and feelings in writing.

I met my girlfriend online and she's amazing. Like another poster said I WANT to share with her that part of myself I've kept hidden. I tell her things I've never told anybody, things I wasn't even fully aware of about myself until talking with her. I'm not sure how to explain it or even how I know this...but I know I'm safe with her. Its still hard for me. But writing my thoughts n feelings in a letter helps immensely and that will be something I do often.

So you'll one day find that one soul...your other half with whom you can be open with.

 

Bless you, dear. This is fabulous!

 

Lol sure I'll play umpress...I'd keep your fiver unless you wanna get disqualified

Next event should be bowling

 

Hi,

Depth of sharing...

Hinges on a few things in my opinion. ..

1) trust

2) annominity

3) confidentiality requirements

The world in general lacks trust but I think there is a huge trust deficiency in gaydom. If you beat a puppy with a newspaper lifelong expect a wary, suspicious adult dog. As a social group we grew up wary, hence the closet.

I suspect when people learn to risk trust things can change.

Tom

 

Really, wonderful post, even if you weren't quite sure what you were asking!

I did the whole marriage thing because I really, truly believed it was what I was "supposed" to do. (For Heaven's sake, my parents each had 8 siblings and I have 50 or 60 first cousins total. We marry young and we reproduce a lot--that seems to be hard-wired into my family!) But I also started to realize after awhile that I definitely tend to keep people arm's length, not because I dislike people in general, but because I really don't know hot to deal with interaction and introspection. I can survive very nicely in my own head, and I can go a lot deeper than I'm really comfortable with at times, but trying to package all the thoughts and emotions up into some kind of a marketable package really has seemed like an awful lot of work for a very small reward. My wife never really "got" me and once I finally realized that our relationship was at a tipping point and things needed to start working towards a conclusion of some kind, I had no plans and no interest in another relationship because it seemed like sharing what I could figure out HOW to share was nice, and would keep me from sheer isolation, but I'd need to find someone who was basically an emotional clone to make a relationship worth the effort.

I've spent some time meandering aimlessly through the thick forest in my brain, wondering what sent me to the safety of the closet, and I truly think sometimes that deep down, being in the closet and in a straight marriage may very well have felt preferable to me because it gave me a sort of "out", a better reason for the relationship to be unsuccessful than my own inability to reach out completely and without filters. I was never particularly afraid of society or AIDS or God, but I definitely WAS afraid that I'd sabotage any relationship by not being able to achieve that level of intimacy with someone. And once I decided without a doubt that playing straight was just not honest and was making me miserable, I also accepted the fact that if it seemed unlikely that I'd be able to really open up fully with someone, I'd damn well better be ready to be happy alone, and be self-reliant and avoid making someone else responsible for my happiness.

Of course the punchline of all this is that I almost immediately met someone who I felt completely comfortable sharing absolutely everything with, and have opened up to him in a way I've never been comfortable with anyone before. Perhaps in the process of accepting myself as gay, but also accepting responsibility for my own happiness, I unlocked the possibility of being more open and intimate with anyone than I'd ever been before. (Or perhaps it was just freakishly good dumb luck--I can't deny that possibility!) He's brought me great joy and happiness that I never expected, but the fact remains that like you, Really, I was really quite fine not putting forth a lot of effort for a very small payoff. Life can be pretty damn happy when you realize that you have the power to MAKE it happy all on your own, without requiring someone else to "make" you happy.

I think we have a lot more of a chance in being intimate with others if we stop expecting THEM to be in charge of OUR happiness. If we learn to rely on ourselves for our own emotional well-being, as you seem to have done, Really, we win two battles. We can be happy and satisfied with our lives if we're NOT with someone, and we also know ourselves well enough deep down that we're not going to flail around looking for a partner behind every corner and wasting a lot of time with the wrong people as a result. Finding my Mr. Right has made me happy in ways I didn't expect, and I'm grateful daily that we found each other. But if we hadn't, and I had never experienced this, I know I would have been able to have a happy life too, because I know myself well enough to be quite happy with just ME. If he hadn't been able to quickly crack the secret codes and passwords to get at my soul and get intimate on that level with me, and if I hadn't been able to do the same with him, I would have been quite content not wasting my time and effort on someone who couldn't.

I'm not sure if that answers the question because I'm not sure there really was one! But it gave Choirboy the chance to blah, blah, blah as usual. :lol: But you sure seem to be on the right track to me, Really.

 

Really, I totally agree with you! I think being anonymous makes it so much easier to talk and be completely honest. Especially with the folks around here, almost everyone is supportive (or doesn't respond), so you are fairly assured of a positive response.

I only have a couple of people I am vulnerable with at all in real life. One is my bff, and that's kind of a recent thing, since I reconnected with her/realized I was still attracted to her 15 years after we lost contact this summer. The other is my husband - and I don't do a good enough job with either of them at times. I often feel ashamed to let my feelings out and be vulnerable IRL, but I'm working on it...

 

So many questions, really...but I'll limit myself to this one that can both help you to consider, and help others to hear your thoughts on:

The woman you're seeing isn't the only person (or even the only woman) in your life who wanted or required "that level of communication", right? So my question is what changed or what brought about the change that makes it possible for you to feel right about being vulnerable with her that wouldn't have allowed it with other women previously? How did that shift finally happen for you?

 

This describes my situation quite well. I never let anyone close to me before. I kept, and for the most part still do, everything at a superficial level. My ex-husband complained about it a lot. Very few people knew what I was thinking or feeling. Coming out changed that to some degree, I guess I felt like I could be honest with myself, and therefore with others, but I still do hold back sometimes.
Then I met my friend who now knows more about me than anyone. I tell her everything and I think what began that was that regardless of what I told her, she accepted it and never judges. I feel safe with her and trust her and I am completely open with her. She, however, is opposite and withdraws more if something negative is occurring in her life. Since I used to be like that, I understand how it works and I know when it's best to let her be. Really, don't worry about the emotional connection you can provide, if you meet someone who cares about you and accepts you, that person will also accept this part of you because it is part of who you are. If you feel comfortable and begin to be more receptive to expressing your emotions, then it will be because you want to. I know with my ex I always felt like he was trying to force me to care, and it made me retreat more because he didn't understand me and when I found someone who understands me and accepts me, I pulled her very close and let her in completely. As LittleLionGirl stated, it feels right. It's the most natural thing to do and maybe someday my friend will be able to do the same, but if she doesn't, it's ok because that is who she is.
You can look at it this way, you will only give that part of yourself to the person/people you believe truly deserve it because it's a very personal and intimate part of you.

 

I think there's a difference between what you are willing to tell people, and telling them how you feel which makes you more vulnerable.
I am also pathologically honest and tell people 'make sure you want to know the answer before you ask the question, because I will tell you'. Like you, I'm not rude about it, and if asked something, I will be honest about it (I can't lie). However, when it comes to what I'm feeling, I will hold back. If I'm feeling depressed and someone notices, I'd say I was tired. Technically not a lie because I'm tired of feeling the way I'm feeling, but most people accept that answer as you either don't want to talk about it or you are tired. I don't usually volunteer how I feel. Emotions, I think when we share them with others makes us feel vulnerable and sometimes forces us to face them when not ready to do that and I think that is a reason we don't share how we feel with most people. Except here, but we don't know each other, and we can think about what we want to say and edit if need be. It's different.
I also have a difficult time form ideas into words unless I'm writing it because otherwise I am concerned as you about neutrality, but also my mind is often moving quicker than my mouth so it doesn't always come out the way I want. And, sometimes I think I lack a filter (as I said, only ask if you want to know answer)
In my opinion, I don't think it's necessarily a matter of honesty or how you communicate, I think it's a matter of truly looking at yourself. It's easy to pretend you are certain way and hide even from yourself how you feel. When you decide to share that with someone you are not only facing your inner self, but you are sharing that part of you with someone else.

 

I think the word you are looking for is diplomacy. I am diplomatic sometimes to a fault. I bite my tongue all the time because my views are so liberal and I live in a very conservative "world". Well my little area of the world.
I agree with you that at this point in my life my sexuality is my only secret…but what a big secret it is! It shouldn't be and I don't want it to be but it is! I think that's why I love being here so much. NO secrets!

 

This is a great thread, and thought provoking. I see myself in a lot of these posts. Keeping people at arms length emotionally. Living without purpose.

I've only been able to open up about my sexuality to 2 people so far (in person.) My bae, who is going to become my roommate on Friday, and my therapist. Otherwise, I've worn a mask all my life. I've played the role I fell into. I've avoided any type of interpersonal conflict. Until now.

My bae is a fantastic kid (18) and I've been completely open and honest with him. More than I have ever been with anyone else. And so far we've kept things platonic, and he's a great worker (I hired him to get stuff inventoried and put up for sale.) I now feel complete and whole, though I don't know if its him, or me finally unburdening my soul. I'm also going through separation, and divorce, so I know not to fall for him or anyone else.

I've only had deep connections with a few people in my life. I really think when you find the right person for you, you will find you have the depth to handle anything. If not, then I'd seek some therapy. It's been a slow process of 4 years, but I'm finally resolving the issues that brought me to therapy (I so wanted to get involved with a young gal at my wifes company.) And every day I feel more like myself, more confident, more willing to take good risks. Ready to leap onto a new path for my life.

I don't know what you would say to people. The question of personal sexuality has never come up in conversation in my life. People just assume I'm hetero because I'm married, before that because I pursued women. I've never been hung up with labels, or fitting in. My favorite t-shirt when I was in high school was "If you're loosing the game, change the rules."

Issues of the day, I'm libertarian, so I'm all for true equality, not harming people, keeping the government out of personal lives. I've not been shy about stating my opinion about "gay marriage" I think the government should just make it so that anyone can assign anyone else their significant other and be able to link together for legal purposes. I think marriage is between 2 people, and God. A piece of paper is no proof of love, happiness, or anything else. It's the government saying, yeah, they are joined.

Anyway, be free, be who you are. People who care about you will deal with it.