Had a discussion where, after I explained my process of coming out, I was accused of being deceptive for not coming out as a teenager, getting married, having kids and then only coming out later in life. The person whom made the comment did so in a light hearted way, but the point came across nonetheless. This certainly got me thinking. When I consider the choices I made, based on the environment in which I made them, it is easy for me to pass off the decisions and blame others, blame the environment and blame an unaccepting society. But I do raise the question to myself - Am I really guilt free? Should I assume blame? Should I have had more courage in the mid 80's, at a minimum, to come out to myself fully? I appreciate that the woman I dated when I was younger was part of trying to help me establish my own identity; but was getting married the right decision? Particularly if I had doubts about my sexuality? Even if I was not comfortable coming out, did I do unnecessary harm to my ex, whom I truly did care for? Also, was having kids the right thing to do? Rationally, I can say that I treated my ex with the utmost respect and love while we were together, we had two beautiful children whom we both cherish and love, I was able to give them a standard of living that provided everything they needed and then some. My ex will be secure for the rest of her life, and I am happy to provide that security. My children will always be in my heart and I will always be there for them and love them. At the same time, our kids have less of an issue with me being gay, as they themselves have stated, when compared to the fundamental separation of their parents, a dynamic which even heterosexual relationships go through. In discussing with friends, It has been suggested to me that my ex should share some of the responsibility. Before we were married, I did explain to her my past with guys, and I explained that it was all part of experimentation. Did I go into all the details? No, she did not want to hear about it. But do I feel as if I provided some disclosure? I do believe so. So, naturally, as my friends have said to me, she knew what she was getting herself into. But did she really count on her marriage ending because I would ultimately come out to myself as being gay, and then to others, and thereafter want to end the marriage? I am sure she did not have that in her thinking at the time. Well, marriages inherently are risky propositions, aren't they? With some estimates suggesting that only 50% of marriages work. Based on this statistic, there was always a risk the marriage would not work. Again, does this eliminate any of the blame? All that said, does it even matter if I am at fault? At this point, should I really care? I do consider myself to be responsible and thoughtful. But doing what I did, does this make me selfish as well? If I do not take responsibility, does this make me even more selfish? Particularly given I am now happy, and she is still working through the separation. Ultimately, I am confident she will find happiness, but no doubt there is a struggle for her before getting to the point of being happy again (am I being too optimistic?) As I think about it further, I do think it is appropriate for me to shoulder some responsibility. I also think it is appropriate for her to shoulder some of the responsibility as well. Maybe I am more at fault, hard to suggest otherwise. But even so, I can never apologize enough, she will never be truly satisfied no matter what type of strength she projects. What I can provide, however, is the continued support for her to lead a productive life with the hope that she will find another one to love. At the same time, I will continue to be there for my kids, and they will go on to lead what I hope will be prosperous lives themselves. Every decision does have consequences. In the end, when I weigh the positives with the negatives, I do have absolute confidence that I made the right decisions. And in time, in my heart I believe my ex realizes that as well. So, do I accept blame? Yes I do. Can I live with that, I believe I certainly can.
we've all made decisions that led us down paths to destinations we didn't imagine when we started out. for myself, ive made decisons and in the end the marriage ended in divorce, preceded by over 10 years of misery, chaos, depression and mental illness. would i have changed my decisions if i had know this, maybe not because i have the greatest kid in the world and he wouldn't be here if i had changed things. i take my share of blame for what happened but no more than mine. for her? im at the point where i don't really care anymore. from your post i would say that you did the best that you could and now you are on a different path, so ever forward man.(*hug*)
Those of us who have been where you are struggle with this every day. We must indeed take responsibility for our actions, there is no doubt about that. We married at a time when being gay was an overall unacceptable situation. Should we have had more courage? Probably, I have met a lot of gay guys who came out young (and a lot of them, now in their fifties have lost a lot of friends to AIDS). I wish I felt as strongly gay at the time as they did, my own orientation was either not that strong, or, paradoxically, I was strong enough to overcome it, for a while. We entered into our marriages with the right intentions, knowing the risks and not being certain of who we were. I am satisfied with that, there was no deception when I walked down the aisle, this was to be for life. So, it was a mistake, we're human, we make tons of mistakes, both big and small. Our duty now is to try and make things better, short of travelling back in time, what other option do we have? As for blame...well there is plenty enough to go around. We could spend days and months assigning who was at fault. Yes, the wives are not without some complicity, but what will it accomplish by pointing that out (especially to them!) without seeming self-serving? We could instead avoid the blame game altogether, acknowledge our mistakes, seek to repair the damage and move on...life is, after all, quite short.
I totally agree with everything you've said, USxUK. I feel it's totally appropriate for me to shoulder some responsibility for this. I had a minor stash of gay porn that I kept well hidden when my then-girlfriend and now-STBX stayed over. I had a 3-year crush on someone in college and very willingly gave him a drunken blowjob one night, and would have gladly been his boyfriend if he had shown any interest in me. I knew damn well that I had no real sexual interest in any of the girls I had halfheartedly dated over the years, and for heaven's sake, I was still a virgin at age 29 when she and I finally got together for the first time. But I did really love her, as much as I thought it was possible to love someone, and I never saw our marriage as a temporary thing that I'd ditch once I had the next flare-up of gay. So is it all my fault? I had an IM conversation yesterday with my sister and a cousin whom I've become cyber friends with in the last few years. I'd never come out to her formally but made a few comments to my sister about it, and the cousin mentioned later that she thought I was gay 35 years ago and was happy that I finally had accepted it. I've seen this cousin perhaps 3 times since my teens. I've come out directly or indirectly to dozens of people and the vast majority of them haven't been even slightly surprised that I'm gay, but they HAVE been surprised that it took me so long to come out. So if casual acquaintances and distant cousins have been able to read all this, why didn't my wife? The answer probably isn't all that hard. I got a whole lot of straight cred and security from her, but she got a husband who was unnaturally attached to her and deferential to her as a result, and she liked it. Maybe she wasn't directly aware that I was gay (although she certainly liked to throw our little hints at it to keep me in line). Or maybe she was--I've gotten conflicting stories from her. But she got something out of our marriage that she certainly didn;t get from her first husband and might well not have gotten out of someone who wasn't so strongly committed to living a "normal" life. I'm going out of my way to provide security for her as I edge out of our marriage, and I sincerely hope she finds someone who can make her happy, as I have. I'm not entirely convinced that she will, though. She's always told me that what she liked about me (she never really says "love", I've noticed) was that I was "different" from all the other guys, even though she pointed out the differences every chances she got, in a disparaging and hurtful way. That journey is up to her. I may be responsible to some degree for what she's going through now, but what she makes of it from now on is up to her, not me.
I'm assuming the individual who accused you of being deceptive was not in full possession of the facts, or aware of the circumstances that lead to any of your decisions? Even though you have taken time and care in making your posting here, we too are unaware of the unique details of your situation. So to level any accusations with little or no understanding of the facts is grossly unfair, no matter how light hearted the tone. When something unravels in our personal or professional lives it's so easy to go into a period of introspective thought and continuous examination of our motives and intentions. We try to appropriate blame, guilt, responsibility and find fault, but what purpose does it really serve? What will be achieved by looking back at circumstances and events that cannot be changed? Is it even soothing to our own conscience to go down that route? We all do things we regret. We make mistakes and get things wrong, but that's part of being human. We (each and every one of us) need to learn to accept that fact, forgive ourselves and make the best of our lives, always striving to do the right thing for ourselves and others. It's a fine balance and we don't always get it right - we can't get it right sometimes, because there is no right. If you commit yourself towards finding the best outcome possible for all concerned, nobody can ask for more.. in my opinion. Words like selfish and deceptive have a rather poisonous quality to them in these circumstances and they are best dismissed for the sake of our emotional wellbeing. I think you are trying to do the right thing and that's fair enough.
I was treated this way on a divorce forum. Really chapped me to. People think I don't know this current situation isn't all my fault. That now I can see, well here I could have done this, that, or the other... Coulda, woulda, shoulda... finally had to tell her to piss off, there was nothing that I could do to change the past.
The comment was made by an acquaintance whereby such person was making a generalization of their views, regardless of whether it was me or someone else. Should have clarified that.
still, we can't change the past... just depends on how politely you tell them to piss off... You have to accept your part in your choices, but to guilt over the coulda, woulda, shoulda, I've learned to just let a lot of that breeze past.
your words, USxUK, really made me think. It made me wonder, if I started out in ignorance, moved into denial, and then into living a lie, is it better than to tell the truth or to continue the lie? In telling the truth, it presents me with your questions. But everything that I have learned in my life condemns the lie, which for the moment is all I know. Contemplating that could push me back into the darkness of depression. But then I read what PatrickUK said about how some words are just poisonous. The are harmful, and bring no healing. I had one experience somewhat like yours, though somewhat different. I talked to a priest about my situation, and he asked that same question. Why did I get married, if I have been gay all my life, and had been sexually active with men before marriage. I honestly answered that at the time I didn't know, I didn't realize what it was, that I thought that it was just sin that I had confessed and would not repeat. At that, his expression changed, and he nodded in acknowledgement. Ultimately, it's what we ourselves think and understand that matters; but it can be helpful to put things into words, even haltingly and confused like I did with that priest, because just attempting to say it, to tell the truth as best I can, helps me along the path. I ain't "there" yet, but today is better than yesterday.
It sounds like your trying to rationalize a feeling. This really can't be done. From my perspective there is no blame only growth. Being true to yourself is necessary to be true to others. "Blame is for God and small children" Dustin Hoffman in movie papillion.
there are sites (and books) for women who find out that they are married to gay men. wow, there is so much toxicity there, and rage. I checked one of the books out at the library and read some of the on-line stuff until I couldn't take it any more. It really made me feel so terrible, and afraid to ever come out. So I realized that I needed to stop reading it, but at the same time it was good that I had a view into what I might be up against eventually. Scares the crap out of me. So for now, I'm just working on myself, and looking for a therapist and hopefully some support groups with skin on them, in addition to this forum which is always there for me.
Actually, I think what I was doing was coming to terms with it. And interestingly, I did not realize it was something I needed to come to terms with until the discussion occurred. It had been playing in the back of my mind for the past few years, but never at the forefront. But having thought about it, certainly rationalized it a bit, and digested my feelings, I can conclude that I am very much at peace with it.
I checked out the Straight Spouse Network right after I came out to my wife and was appalled at the venom I saw there. I couldn't bring myself to suggest it to her because I was afraid of her attacking me. Now that I'm far more secure I've actually suggested it to her several times, because I feel that I've been more than reasonable and perhaps hearing some of the irrational venom over there might actually shock her into some degree of rationality. Like lowering an insane person into a snake pit, believing that an experience that might drive a sane person over the edge could shock an insane person back to sanity. So far she hasn't bitten. Pity. She might have bonded with some bitter ex-husband of a later-in-life lesbian! ---------- Post added 20th Nov 2014 at 12:24 PM ---------- Hah. Didn't quite realize the amount of snake imagery I had thrown in there! Snakes. I hate those things.
Yeah, in my situation it has less to do with sexuality, and more to do about burying my emotions, opinions, thoughts from an early age, and doing as much as possible to avoid any conflict. Add on social anxiety, and you get someone who goes along to get along. Not till lately, with therapy zoloft, and anti-anxiety meds have I felt internally strong enough to stand up for myself. Give those & social media to my 13 year old self, and I'd bet the outcome would have been vastly different.
AMEN to that! I've wondered many times why two people from similar backgrounds might chose to come out young vs. marry and stay in the closet. I really think there's a huge amount of avoidance of conflict, and anxiety, and the desire to please that goes into that decision. It sure did with me. And although I realize that I've come an intensely long way since telling Person Zero in November 2012, and my wife in September 2013, I had long periods of frustration and fear over the fights it would cause and the potential disapproval I'd get. That has abated, thank God, and actually I managed to do it with only about 4 therapy sessions and 3 months of Citalopram. But then again, my biggest fear since childhood was failure, and once I decided I needed to come out, I had already psyched myself into believing that NOT coming our was equated with failure. Which meant that in some ways I added to my own stress, of course, which is nothing new either.
Anyone who blames you for not coming out earlier is ridiculous. The times from 30 to even 10 years ago were harsher than they are now, and I cannot blame anyone for not identifying as gay, when most people didn't even know what gay was. A common theme among older gay persons I've met in person, is that I would NEVER identify them as gay by just seeing them, they just naturally hide any aspect of their sexuality naturally, and given that I can typically identify gays and even bisexuals that don't 'show', it really makes me consider what the older generation had to do to survive. The reality is, is that we have to work on what we have now. And what you're doing now is the right thing, so even if you were wrong for not coming out earlier, you're doing everything you can to fix that now. So it's not really relevant.
