Greetings folks, Here is a video every one of us should see. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1tCAXVsClw#t=16 I had mentioned earlier that a soul-mate is not necessarily someone you would want to marry, because such a person is a mirror, someone who reflects who you are, not necessarily someone who will inspire you to be your best self. I love Savage's take on this. Reminds me of a quote by Pablo Picasso: Which reminds me also that love is a kind of esthetic experience, not unlike art...
Aww this was so good. The woman that I am wildly attracted to? She lies... omg she lies and exaggerates so much about the most stupid things. The lies really dont hurt anyone and they are done out of insecurity or to protect someone. I actually tell her she's such a liar lol. But I adore her and accept her for who she is. Lets face it: we're all fucked up to some degree. Some we can change and some is like pulling teeth to change. I cant always tell which is which for myself, but we can get so picky about the most ridiculous things. I saw a vid from the same guy in the sidebar about why monogamy is ridiculous. I'm going to have to watch that one, because I kinda feel like I am leaning in that direction. I wouldnt cheat... its not about that for me. I'm pretty shy and reserved for the most part. I think that there are some personalities that are more inclined to do so, so I'm kinda just toying with the idea at this point.
I often have somewhat mixed feelings about Savage--he's entertaining but I find him a more than a little cynical and mean-spirited at times--but this is spot-on. And interestingly, it made me think a lot about my STRAIGHT marriage and how long it lasted, and what caused me to finally decide to come out. My wife was the only woman I ever had sex with, and the only woman I ever felt enough of an attraction to to pursue. I knew I was sexually attracted to guys even if I couldn't bring myself to call myself "gay", had gone through a 3-year crush on a guy in college, and had gay porn that I hid in the closet when she came over :dry:. And I had seriously debated coming out, both before and during our "courtship" (which was a complicated and unconventional thing of itself). So why did I do it? Why did any of us? Most of us had some inkling that we were gay before we got married; accepting it may have been hard or impossible, but it's not like the signs weren't there. Thinking of this in terms of the "price of admission", I think I had things more than a little messed up. Savage considers ignoring all those annoying little quirks that we and our partners all have as the "price of admission" to a relationship, and he's right. For me and for a lot of us formerly (or still) closeted husbands, we put up with the unhappiness of our straight relationships for years because we assumed it to be the "price of admission" into the relationship. But maybe the reality is that the relationship itself was the "price of admission" to something else. Security, safety, a traditional life, kids, acceptance. And we decide to come out because we discover, years later, that we've overdrawn our account, and the price far outweighs what we thought we were getting. I put up with many aspects of my wife's personality from the very start that I was uncomfortable with, but I did it because it seemed like the relationship and what I would get out of it was worth it, but I was also accepting a relationship that I couldn't sustain because the acceptance as a straight man that it gave me seemed worth it. It was quite a delicate balancing act, and I suspect that if she had fewer personality traits that I had to ignore, things might very well have ended up differently. But I didn't get enough of what I perceived to be the perks of being a straight guy, and the relationship itself wasn't fulfilling, so eventually it all came tumbling down because I was paying the "price of admission" for a show that I stopped enjoying long ago. The thought of having to ignore the kind of little annoyances that Savage mentions in the video seems pretty easy and relaxing compared to the last 20 years, actually!
So true, CB, excellent point about the marriage being the price of admission to "normalcy". But what a price! His main point is that many of us have too many "non-negotiables" when in fact the real unacceptable items (the big things) on that list should be counted on one hand. This could be the single most important reason so many of us end up alone. I had a BF a while ago who, when probing my past relationship behaviour, would give or take away what he would call "brownie points"...a kind of mental accounting of my potential behaviour in a relationship with him. What he failed to consider, however, was that my past was with someone else, it did not account for the intangible thing we do to become better people, for the sake of a good relationship with that particular person. In this relationship scenario, each partner holds the other's "nethermost beast" on a leash, and each, by expecting the "lie" to be lived up to in the other, will make an effort to live up to his or her own "lie". And because we have no solid unalterable foundation to who we are, by the earnest attempt at living up to what we initially presented, we actually get there! It's kind of comical, actually, and reminds me of the saying that, when entering upon a marriage, it is important to keep one's eyes wide open, and, once married, to keep them half-shut...
Interesting video, and it made some good points, like the short list of deal breakers. My reservation comes in with the living a lie idea. This comes from someone who has never had a romantic relationship--and may well never have one! That disclaimer aside, I am striving to move towards leading an honest, authentic life. Having spent a good chunk of my first 42 years essentially lying about my sexual orientation to myself, I think I've lost interest in lies. I'd rather have a guy who recognizes my good points--if there are any :lol:--and also recognizes that I have my weaknesses.
The lies Savage is talking about revolve around the stuff that people present as their best selves. Perhaps "lie" is too strong a word... Why this resonates with me is in the idea of the foundational unchanging self; the question I would pose is: what is the true self and what is the lie? There comes a point where "pretending" to be someone actually becomes "real", the Jewish sages of old would often say that it is a great commandment to be happy...can someone be commanded and then willfully become happy?? Yes! Emphatically yes, despite circumstances, people can choose to be happy. What is "real" about that? We all have good and bad aspects, the trick is to integrate them: to direct the bad energy to good purposes and to make the good aspects even better (what the sages called the yetzer ha ra/yetzer ha tov dynamic. For example, a philanthropist will give a lot of money to a cancer center, but he may do it for less-than-noble purposes, such as a tax credit or for the ego gratification of seeing his name prominently displayed on the building...nevertheless, some real good has been done. A relationship that is worth keeping forces you to this task of integration, with a focus on good actions rather than just behaviour.
Hi, Now that I am single and working retail.... OMG!!! The number of straight couples where the guy is an obediant dog. Can do nothing without permission. Not partnership but permission. I am not sure about the video as I need to think about it. I like the "love without attachment" model. Love with attachment leads to leash and collars. You can have your arm twisted by your attachment. It relates to his few deal breakers... Tom
The question is more, what is my true self, and what is the mask I wear out in public. And by public I mean, anything not inside your head. I've always filtered everything I've done, ALWAYS. The mask isn't my true self, it is what people assume I'm projecting.
Hi, I assume we closeted gay folk get this doubly (cubed even). We observe and act (literally "act") to maintain the closet. I imagine many are lost and asking "who am I?" When they come out after a life of acting to please others. Everything is questioned and should be. I do. I would question the self awareness of those who were not questioning all of their embedded, entrained "act" of the closet on coming out. Tom
Well, I know a lot of subservient straight husbands, and what I generally see is that frequent sex is the "price of admission"! In one couple in particular, he's older, works part-time jobs since his so-called retirement to support his wife's handbag and vacation habit, is in a cold sweat half the time about her spending, but he can go hunting or riding his Harley whenever he wants, and if he's horny 3 times a day, he gets sex 3 times a day. And everyone is happy, despite the fact that on the outside, I look at the two of them and think he's totally whipped. Some of this is just simple maturity and common sense, too. If you're going to make a deal breaker out of a gambling addiction or spousal abuse or pyromania, then fine. You should. But too many people can't seem to overlook petty little annoyances about their partners, and use them to cast a giant shadow on a person who has far more good qualities than bad. Realistically, unless you have proof that you are 100% flawless as a person, and lacking in any personal idiosyncracies, you had damn well better not get annoyed because someone cracks their knuckles or forgets to replace the toilet paper roll on a regular basis. After spending 20 years with someone who notices EVERYTHING and can't help commenting about it (he says tearfully!), I can't imagine putting someone I love through that.
I don't always agree with the things you post, but this is a must, sure. The real trouble is when you ask yourself if it's really worth it, I mean to invest the time and the trouble, and then being aware that your daily cereal is made of 60% lies, 30% friendship (ideally) and 10% sex -because you both work long hours and you both come home tired... (talking about a realistic relationship with "the one", not your average Hollywood fantasy) I'm ashamed to admit it, but I don't feel like I really found someone in my life who was worth the trouble (not even "the love of my life", specially not him!). Right now I'm even giving up a ton of my social life because I'm afraid of getting into troubles again. And still they happen, they seem to follow me wherever I go... Even today a guy was trying his look, staring at me and smiling, making up his own lie on his own damned head and trying to force me join... I think I know why the troubles seem to follow us wherever we go, and the reason is related to the video : 'Cause after all we ended up believing our own lie, you know, that lie that makes people attracted to us. Maybe we are doomed to relationships, who knows... I wonder if there is a solution to keep them all away, at least for a while... Like 100 years or so. There is much more in life than just relationships, with their silly lies and their silly games, so much more...
Waattt? :eek: God, if everyone agreed with me I would be...a god! As I am not, I am pleased to learn that I am as flawed as anyone else! Which is actually quite to the point. When dating, meeting, whatever, we are under the impression that we have to present our best self. Heaven knows there are entire fashion, cosmetic, entertainment and other industries specifically geared to prop up the lie, pretty much everyone is complicit in the lie... I had long ago presented a French philosopher, Yann Dall'Aglio in my thread So...love about just this topic of presenting ourselves with lies: [YOUTUBE]dJgiYBdD2VA[/YOUTUBE] All well and fine, let's all agree that we are all useless...doesn't this contradict Savage? Well, yes and no, because when we like someone, we want to show them our best, when we are comfortable with someone, the other stuff appears...sooner or later. Eventually, you will just have to let one big-ass fart rip in his presence! It's not that we end up believing the lie, I think that when we put on that mask, the one that helps us get into relationships, it is a mask that we would wear permanently if we could, it is (normally) something most of us aspire to. The same goes for the other! I have made this point several times here, we are what we pretend, but what does that mean? (you are no doubt asking)...it means that our "true" self is "truest" when we are in the company of others. And when we are in the company of others, we are always playing a role. So...why not choose a good one? We are "doomed" to relationships because we are built that way. The biggest clue to the truth of that is in what are called healthy relationships. The science is quite clear, both partners in such relationships are actually physically healthier. The converse is also true, when both partners hate each other, there are negative physical effects.
Yes, acting the straight, monogamous, oh no dear, whatever you want, oh, I'll stop being myself just to not be alone guy I've been for far to long. And that was without really contemplating sexuality in all this. Then I meet a sweetheart of a guy who accepted me for who I was, sarcastic, pain in the ass, caring, bisexual, polygamous, insecure, impulsive, sensitive person.
