When do you know?

I just changed the order of your sentences. Change is scary, but sometimes it's the only path to having a good life. "Lesbian" at the end is just a word. The name of the woman you love is something else. So you can try to say aloud "I am a [name of your beloved] lover" than just "I'm a lesbian", maybe it feels different.

 

yes, you are fee to call yourself what you know yourself to be. that's called "coming out to yourself," and that is an EXTREMELY important step, and is perhaps the biggest leap into honesty that we can ever take. It may be difficult to make the next steps, but it doesn't change who we are. I have had sex with men my whole adult life, and could not perform with a woman without a lot of gay fantasy (and eventually could not perform opposite-gender sex at all). But despite all that which clearly indicated that I was gay, I was in such deep denial. Then, four years ago, I was standing before the bathroom mirror one day, looked myself in the eye, and said "I AM GAY." Not something I planned, not some pop psychology thing, but it just sort of happened. And it was a huge leap of honesty, and everything since then has been different. It wasn't until this year, three years after coming out to myself, that I started coming out to other people, and so far just a few. though once I came out to my best friend to high school, I really want to come out to lots more safe and trusted people. as far as the marriage, well that's why I am still in the closet at home. we don't have any sexual relationship, and I don't know when the right time will be, or what is really best for her. but no matter what's going on there, and how long I will be in the closet, I am still gay and call myself gay. Being gay just means that I am sexually, romantically, and socially attracted to men and not to women. coming out just means that I get honest about that. but honest or not, I'm still gay. :newcolor:
(but I'm trying to get more honest. that's why I'm here!)

 

You can call yourself whatever you want! Even if it's just inside your head.

The way I see it, your personal sexual orientation is independent of the gender of your partner.

Personal experience: I ended up coming out of the closet when I broke up with my (notably male) ex-fiance, who I was with for over 5 years. Did that mean that I wasn't a lesbian for those 5 years? Totally was. I still didn't have any romantic or sexual feelings towards my ex or any other men- I just chose to be with one because it was highly advantageous to me. (Which makes me sound really heartless, but it was what it was & I can't take it back.)

 

SO TRUE!!! We don't BECOME gay at some point. We just figure it out. Even though I didn't admit it until I was 54, I have been gay my whole life. And connecting the dots was looking back at all those signs that I was missing along thee way. And mapleluv, I for one to not think that you are heartless. There are social and economic advantages to being hetero and they can make it a lot harder for us to realize that the reason we don't feel romantic or sexual feelings toward an opposite sex partner is because we're gay. I put less effort into selecting a wife than I would put into buying a car, and I really hate if that sounds cruel, but the fact is that I thought that you were supposed to get married, and one woman seemed the same as another. In fact, to me they were, because no matter how much I wanted to manufacture what I was supposed to feel for a woman, it just wasn't really there. I wouldn't have done that if I understood, but here we are. :tears:

 

YES I'd say its normal. I speculate its a part of awakening from denial.

 

It's really amazing how at some point, we have this "Helen Keller at the pump" moment where suddenly it makes sense, and all that's missing is some flamboyant guy in drag as Annie Sullivan, complete with dark glasses, saying "He knows, Mrs. Keller! He knows! Isn't it faaaabulous? ride: .

I was ridiculously repressed but I can remember crushing on Will Robinson from Lost In Space, and the kid who played Eddie on The Munsters, when I was a pre-teen. Being fascinated by one kid in particular in the locker room and showers in 7th grade. Not being able to keep my eyes off of a kid in high school choir. Crushing on a college roommate for years and even getting naked with him one drunk night. Keeping gay porn tapes hidden from my then-fiancée and surfing the net for it for years. And yet it took till only a couple years ago before I identified undeniably as gay and started coming out.

At some point it becomes acceptable in your brain, even necessary. Until it does, don't worry. The important thing is that you are who you are and you love your life the way things make sense. The rest is just semantics. Once you're happy and secure with who you are, the words for it will be there whether it's "gay" or "lesbian" or "Wah! Wah!" :lol:.

---------- Post added 6th Dec 2014 at 08:32 AM ----------

Damn, I seem to be very ADD this morning.....

 

PNW73 you're not a fraud! Many of us are/were in this situation not knowing what to do. I think Choirboy made a very good point with the Hellen Keller moment of realization. For me I hit a "critical mass" point that I couldn't stand being closeted anymore.

Please don't worry about the labels! Have you considered divorce or a trial separation? Sorry for such a blunt question but it's seems clear that you don't see a future with him.

 

I finally stopped denying it about a year ago- someone tried to fix me up with a (female) friend of theirs and I realized any time anyone has done that I get uncomfortable and wondered why. I look back at my life (I was 46, am 47 now) and realized- hm. no girlfriends, no effort whatsoever to get one, being more interested in seeing guys shirtless than women in skimpy bikinis...and realized that Id been in massive denial- it still took a while to not say (to myself and my therapist) "I'm probably gay" and to just say "I'm gay." Still not out beyond that yet...its gonna be a while, i think. Still- its good just accepting what I am and not trying to ignore it.

 

Helen Keller moment, critical mass point, and for me it was a "connect the dots" moment. Funny how we have these different images for what is fundamentally the same experience. And the fact is, we get to that point when we get to it. I think when there is a "preponderance of evidence" that it just makes it all so clear. I agree, you are definitely NOT a fraud!!!

 

It sounds like the hurting part has already happened. Telling him the truth should be a great relief for him. He might be thinking that he is inadequate as a man, or that you hate him, or that you find him repulsive, all those things can run through someone's mind. If you just tell him, you can both get on with your lives. Will it be hard? I don't know, but it sounds like it is already so very hard for you both.

 

I find that so frustrating myself. I know that we can only answer those questions ourselves, and yet I really want them to tell me. I feel like, well, therapists see a lot of people and they've got a lot of training, the obviously must have a pretty good idea of the answer. but I haven't yet had a therapist that would answer the question for me, though I think I've answered it for myself. good luck!

 

It's like a kick in the gut, a light goes on, a dam bursts, it's like a complicated mechanism that suddenly starts whirring and turning and everything suddenly clicks into place. I could go on with the metaphors, but I think you get my drift.

In that one, sudden (for many of us) moment, everything that came before and everything thereafter suddenly makes sense, there is no other way to describe it.

A hard and fast answer presupposes a question, which in itself presupposes that one can arrive at a conclusion logically...I'm a scientist, I do that for a living, but when it comes to one's own desires, reasoning it out seldom works, and often hinders the process...it goes far deeper than that.

 

I understand what you're going through. I've been married for just a couple of years, and have a son, and then went through this awakening where I realized that I am actually interested in women. I've been honest with my husband about it, and he is not supportive at all. So that adds a level of stress. I've asked myself 100 times if I could be wrong. It would be so much easier if I could just be attracted to him again, if I could just continue the life I thought we were building. But until I came out to myself I never felt comfortable with who I was in any way. There was always something missing and i couldn't put my finger on it. Now that I've accepted that I'm actually a lesbian, so many things have clicked, and I feel so free and happy just being myself and being fine with that (most of the time, everyone has their moments). I'm basically out to anyone who cares to have a conversation with me, despite the fact that my husband and I are still living together and trying to figure out the logistics of separating. I'm not hiding it, and I feel like to most people it doesn't matter. You most definitely are not a fraud, and there's no reason to feel bad about questioning yourself - it's completely normal! Best of luck to you!

 

This resonates deeply. It's really difficult when the person you're hurting is your best friend and you work together on so many levels but you know staying with them will just cause more pain in the long run. One of the first things I felt when i figured things out was that he deserved someone who loved him the way he loves me.

---------- Post added 11th Dec 2014 at 12:28 PM ----------

Yeah, and this. I've misdirected so much of my feeling of being trapped/unhappy to things like where we lived and jobs and so forth. All of the things that bothered me so much before seem to have melted away now that I've internalised that the reason I was feeling so trapped was because I don't want to be married to a man. I always felt so fake before on some level and could never quite articulate it.....