Dating Issuses: a Bit of a Rant

Awww, Scotty *hugs*.

"You can't hurry love; no, you'll just have to wait." - Pointer Sisters

"You just haven't earned it yet, baby. You just haven't earned it son. You just haven't earned it yet baby. You must suffer and cry for a longer time." - The Smiths

Terrible songs; wonderful songs. Songs that have helped me at different times of my life.

So let me get this straight (so to speak *smile*): you want employed, sane, low-drama, decent, smart, caring and cute all in *one person*??

Oh, and that person should be gay as well? AND male? And 40+. And live in the Rochester area.

Anything else? A fetish for plaid, perhaps? Ph.D. in astrophysics?

Naturally, I kid...on one level. On another level, I have to say...maybe you *are* being too restrictive? I mean, it's one thing to have a good list of priorities...what you would consider *ideal*. But usually our absolutely ideal person doesn't exist...or rather, if an ideal person for us exists, we wouldn't recognize them, based on *our* list of priorities. But let's consider what's critical, and what isn't...the fewer keywords, the wider the search outcome, right?

Naturally, gay and male are non-negotiable. I believe that sane people should consider sanity non-negotiable as well. To me, that includes low-drama without saying...but mileage seems to vary on that point.

Age? Is it truly critical, if you have things in common and get along well otherwise?

I get that driving to Buffalo in the winter is somewhere between inconvenient and impossible...but must it be a deal-breaker, if all the other items are in place? I get the concern about finding employment in Canada...but is it worth excluding someone based on this? What if they'd (eventually) be willing to move to the States?

Does smart simply mean "not stupid"? Does it mean at least as smart as you? Smarter? As demonstrated how?

My experience is that when I'm attracted to someone emotionally/spiritually, they become cute (or otherwise physically attractive to me). Again, people's experience with this differs...but it could be worth considering weakening this criterion.

I *know* you've likely thought about these things...I *know* you were probably kidding with your laundry list of qualities (at least to some extent...at least making light).

And I *absolutely* know how much it sucks to want a special someone of your own SO much, and not have such a person...it's been many years since I've been there, but I was there, sure enough, and the memory sticks with me. So I don't make light, or minimize your situation at all. But at that time, I took a lot of solace from the Pointer Sisters song. Some of my comments above are based on their second line "love don't come easy; it's a game of give and take."

Hang in...and most importantly continue becoming the wonderful person you are. When you contain so much self-love that it overflows from you, *that* is when you become irresistible to people, and the right person will suddenly unfold from the woodwork. At this very moment? He's probably just struggling with his sexuality and considering whether he needs to divorce his wife of 20 years. Give him that time, and use it to become even more worthy of him. *hugs*

 

tscott,

First, Brazil is great. It's hopelessly dangerous and rather inconveniently located. Half of my family (aka the particularly insane side) is Brazilian.

I had two boyfriends, years ago; both spoke Spanish only. (I speak Spanish, not Portuguese for complicated reasons.) They were both cute; one was kind of a jerk and asked me to buy him a laptop (I didn't.)

But I was not in the market for a "toy." The language issue wasn't so problematic; it was that they wanted a sugar daddy, and they were rather shameless about it.

As many of us have lamented, dating itself is draining and frustrating. And there is no magic place in the world where single, sane gay guys are easy to find. I say this having lived in the West Village, San Francisco, and Tel Aviv... all cities famous for their welcoming atmosphere.

I know that I struggle as an introvert and rather avoidant. But I still go online and initiate conversations, I go to parties... but it doesn't work.

I went on my first date in many months two nights ago. He seemed nice enough, and I would have enjoyed talking with him longer than 45 minutes, but he suddenly fled, lit up a cigarette, and walked toward the bus. And I thought I was getting somewhere.

Although it sounds cynical, I am trying to see this in practical terms. As much as I'd like a real relationship, maybe I have to accept the fact that this is unlikely. I haven't had sex in years, so maybe I could at least get that far. I'd settle for a kiss at the moment.

biAnnika, I am enamoured with your question: "does smart mean 'not stupid?" The guy from the other night was probably unlikely to become a nobel laureate (neither am I). But he seemed cute and kind, and that's worth a lot to me as well.

 

Tscott, I want you to think about this for a minute. You have a list of qualifications you are looking for, a sort of "shopping list" of the kind of guy you think would make you happy. There is nothing wrong with this and you should know what you are looking for. I only want to say that the other guy probably has a shopping list too, which he is applying to you. He doesn't know what you are shopping for unless you tell him in one way or another.

Rather than looking for an ideal guy according to your list, why not just start with looking for someone you feel attracted to, and meet with them to see if that attraction makes you want to compromise some of the items on your list. Love and attraction can overcome minor flaws, and the market isn't exactly overflowing with choices when you aren't a 20 year old male model.

 

One possible way to deal with this situation if one is in an evil mood... Interpret "new laptop" to mean "new to the owner." And then head to Goodwill to find the oldest, creakiest laptop on the shelves. Perhaps a Pentium 1 running Windows 95.

Or since Apple has become so hot, one could provide that all-important Apple status symbol in the form of a 1994 Macintosh PowerBook 150 (rated as a "Compromised Mac" by lowendmac.com, meaning it wasn't that great even when new).

 

Brilliant idea, BMC77.
He actually had a specific US$2,500 machine picked out.

Let's just say that this was a "turning point" in our relationship.

 

Only $2,500? Nice he showed such restraint...

I can imagine that this was, indeed, a "turning point" in the relationship...

 

My kid sister used to snarl that she went on one date a year, to remind herself how much she hated dating. She was not seeking a relationship and had no expectations of being in one. But she had an active life with many friends and acquaintances, and did all the things that she enjoyed doing, and kept looking for fresh and new experiences. One day, completely by chance, she met a guy through friends with whom she shared many core beliefs (Portland hippie liberals, the both of them!), and in her late 30's, she married and had a couple of kids.

Similarly, I decided before I ever even came out to my wife that any potential relationship with a guy would require him to be every bit as introverted and quiet as I, with generally similar mental processes and opinions, because my wife is extroverted to the point where she exhausts me, and her approach to our relationship was vastly different from mine, and I was miserable as a result. More miserable from the mismatch in personalities, in fact, than my closet case status. My goal was to do what I liked and enjoy life, not look for a partner, and frankly the idea of one quiet, conservative, introverted, independent, compulsively monogamous gay loner meeting another one seemed pretty damn ridiculously impossible anyhow.

So our story is freakish and unique, yes, and I'd never suggest that we "made it happen" or could ever hope to advise someone else how to duplicate it. And given your struggles and those of others, I feel almost sheepish even talking about it, like telling a homeless guy how I won the lottery by finding a torn, filthy and crumpled single stuffed in an old shoe I found in a dumpster while looking for my daughter's retainer, and just bought the ticket on a whim to get the nasty thing out of my wallet.

My point is....take advantage of your freedom! You have an amazing opportunity to reinvent yourself, or to rediscover things about yourself that you forgot long ago. Sometimes I think Richard and I had a great advantage in coming from relationships that were generally dysfunctional and trying, because neither of us was in any great rush to burst out of the closet and look for Mr. Right. We spent too many years miserably trying to be Mr. Right to our wives to dive into another shark-infested pool of potential partners, and as it happened, our idiosyncrasies drew us together. So if you find a like-minded soul as my sister and I did, enjoy it, but don't make the search and "the person" a requirement for your happiness. If you're already happy, or at least feel like you're moving in the right direction, you're more likely to find a decent person than if you're desperately scanning apps and strangers.

 

I have to agree here that sex without a genuine connection seems empty.
however it has been a while since i had any guess as more time has passed by i see my rigidity to get a FWB or FB kind of relationship increase more.
guess whatever it is just have to accept life on life terms.

 

Hey Tim. My take on this is, and it's just my own personal view of things. I've never been one that wanted to sleep with loads of guys, it's just not me. I made a conscious decision that I wanted to find a guy that I liked, could fall in love with, share experiences with, and see if it was a relationship that could be created and endure. For me, that meant that I needed to commit to him and not end up being distracted by all the other eye candy that might be on offer. If I found the right guy, then that was more important to me than sleeping around. Now, for me I know that I could get encouraged to date/sleep around but my fear would always be that I would fleetingly pick up, date, sleep with and discard as I'd always feel like I was searching: by doing this would I ever click, would my instinct be so dulled by the high of random sex or intense early dating that I'd never separate the buzz of the excitement of a new date/FB/FWB from the real deal, the man I know I want to spend the rest of my life with? I don't know. I know everyone's different. For me having three guys on the go at once - wow! - means I'd need to keep my emotional distance from all of them cos how could I create something enduring with any or all of them?

For me, pick one that I really like and work at it. See how this goes and see what can develop. Good luck man x

 

I think there is something to be said for what your therapist said. You might think you have gotten it all out of your system. But how do you really know if you have.....

 

I don't really agree with this sentiment. I think it is entirely possible to know what you want.

It's akin to someone being able to know they are gay without ever having had sex.

I'm newly out myself, but I've had someone reject the very idea of dating me because, once finding out my (lack of) history, he told me (he didn't ask, he just told me) that I was going to want to play around. Look, I'm an adult. I'm fully capable of knowing what I do and do not want, and I don't appreciate other people telling me I don't *really* know. I do know, thank you very much.

Sorry, just hit on a bit of a sore spot for me.

I would just say, if you know what you want, then hold firm to that. Look in earnest for what it is you want, and be patient and hopefully content in the interim if you can't find it right away.

 

I appreciate where your coming from on that point. But I can also say I had the exact opposite experience, and I lost my first boyfriend over it. I thought I was ready for to be committed to one person, only to realize I had some "exploring" that I needed to get out of my system. For me, it was not self evident.

I guess there are two sides to every coin.

 

Hey, I so get where you are coming from. If I just wanted sex, I could hookup with any of the countless yearning bottoms out there. They have a great desire my big D, and that's about it. Many have a desire to be dominated, which is so not my thing. Just not as satisfying hooking up with strangers.

I felt more comfortable with the escort I hired for a massage. We made chit-chat, I had a great massage, and we are now good friends. Sex with him just didn't feel right, and I told him that and we stopped.

I wouldn't say you are using people, or being used. You are fulfilling mutual needs, and keeping it simple. You aren't manipulating them into having sex with you, right?

What I want, which I'm actually forming right now, is a meaningful, lasting relationship.

My boyfriend (of 1 week officially) and I have been seeing and texting each other for 4 months now. Last night was our first official date since deciding to be boyfriends. And funny, he started out the evening by saying he didn't want to have sex. Yet, we ended up in bed with each others, well, you know, in each others mouths.

The intimacy was so much more fulfilling this time, even the last time which was pretty hot... The connection we now have just made it so much more intense.

If someone thinks you are worth dating, they ought to be able to keep their hands to themselves until you are ready to commit to something more. Just be clear what you are looking for, and what your expectations are.

 

As others have stated, you never know where you will find the right guy! Keep searching, keep an open mind, you are involved in various activities which all works well, but who knows, maybe you meet someone out of the blue that steals your heart when you least expect it - such as waiting at the gate to board a flight with the one meant for you sitting quietly in his chair only 25 feet away. This does happen!