Religion

Sorry to hear that, David, but as you said, it is your choice. I was fortunate enough to grow up without religious encumbrances; I don't necessarily dislike religious people, but I do largely avoid them nowadays — little enough is left of my life for me to spend it arguing how many angels can dance on a pinhead.
I would say, as someone who came out very late in life, that it was worth it. The pain I caused to other people is my cross to bear, but I bear it willingly, knowing that we all somehow survived and we all are moving forward in positive ways.

 

Well I'm no doubt going to annoy EVEN more people on this site with my non-pc views.

However, religion is a cancer, if you have actually read any kind of Abrahamic religious scripture you will see how vile it really is. It advocates genocide, murder, rape, paedophilia, misogynistic views etc. It is also filled to the brim with contradictions, historical inaccuracies and other sh*te. Now I'm not trying to offend you (I am sure that you are a wonderful guy so please try not to take this to heart) but you have to be very .... to believe in and follow the doctrine of a being which cannot be proven to exist.

What do you do? It's hard to say, it's your life mate. Personally, I would throw that book in the bin and go out and enjoy myself (without hurting people).

Good luck, mate.

 

It's a problem for me too David, but for a different reason. You see, I don't believe that it (homosexuality) is forbidden by the Bible. Sure, we can view the contentious passages in an entirely literal way if we want to, and I know a good many Christians who do precisely that, but I think it's a little bit naive to ignore the history, context and original language in which those passages were written... and that's just for starters.

I think there is a great danger in elevating the Bible to a false position, where the word becomes supreme above all things and affects our thinking and reasoning. It was that very standard that was used to justify apartheid and all manner of wickedness. Archbishop Desmond Tutu has talked about it in great detail and he has staunchly defended the rights of gay people. It's greatly encouraging to read what this great man of God and Nobel prize winner has to say on the subject, even if you are not an Anglican yourself.

 

I can understand what your going through. It is hard on here and everywhere to find gay christians. Don't get me wrong I respect other's beliefs but it is somewhat a trend in the gay community for people to leave religion and it does bother me to some extent. I know it is not the same case for every gay person everyone has their reasons for disbelief in God.

Organized religion is the root of the problem. You have churches brainwashing people and declaring false doctrines. The honest truth is you cannot get the truth from a church. Now most people wouldn't take the time to do this but to really understand christianity is it important to do your own research on the bible and the different translations to really get to the truth.

In the original non English scripture homosexuality was never condemned and those verses had different meanings. There also were several gay people or couples in the bible loved by God and Jesus. The most important point is that Jesus suffered and died for our sins because he loved us deeply. The verse John 3:16 is one of the strongest messages in the bible and it greatly represents God's love for us. Another important point is would God condemn someone for the way they were born. God knows our hearts and minds more than anyone on earth and God's love is stronger than any sin or imperfection.

 

I don't hate you, nor is what I am about to say be incurred as hostile or a threat.....it is just fact as I see it.

Religion is a multi-trillion dollar industry. Yes, industry. It is an organization that wrecks havoc on the "sheep" of the world. "Sheep" meaning people who are easily manipulated and used.

There are NO concrete facts of any type to substantiate the fairy tales spewed out by religious zealots. Not one. Every single piece of "evidence" that has ever come to life as "proof" of any part of religion, has been dis-proven as fake or a lie. One piece of REAL evidence that religion is a complete falsehood is taken from the hieroglyphs of Egypt and that surrounding area. Not ONE.........NOT ONE of any part of any hieroglyphs found anywhere in the world (especially the areas where the fairy tales of the Bible took place) ever mention ANYTHING about Jesus, Jesus's God/Father, Moses, or any other supernatural phenomenon of that type!!!

Don't you think if such things DID happen, that it would be written in hieroglyphs SOMEWHERE in all of the ones they have found? Even just ONE mention would partially substantiate any story from the bible!!!! But no......there is no mention of any of the stories or people from the biblical fairy tales in any hieroglyphs found.

Religion is a construct of human design, to keep humans in line. Just like you use "the monster under the bed/in the closet" or "the boogeyman" to make kids behave...........politicians and rulers way back then used the kinds of fables in the bible to keep adult humans in line.....to scare them into submission.

And centuries later when politicians gained real power to manipulate the multitudes of sheep in the world, they started charging them for it.....calling it tithes (your religious donation).

To make a long story short, religion is no more than a money making global scam. They have no proof of their claims of god, Jesus, or anything else they boast about in their fairy tales. And yet they continue to have power over the sheep of the world. This goes for ANY religion.

Religion is just a propaganda tool for the rich and powerful to use and abuse everybody else for their own private agendas. Religious organizations are corrupt, self centered, and all self important. They will maim, kill, and destroy anyone who does not believe EXACTLY as they do, and this includes their own sheep members of their own clans/sects.

There is 1,000 times or more.....MORE PROOF that religion is false, than there is of religion being what it says it is.

I should know, my mother was a religious nut job. She dragged me and my sister to many different kinds of churches over the many years of us growing up in her house. And I have to say I did not see anything different from one church to the next...........they all lied, cheated, stole, and used/abused each other and everybody else around them.....all in the name of their religion and their false god.




As far as religion itself goes......I have an Aunt who I had never seen go to church, much less speak of religion......until one afternoon. I was just sitting in the living room of my Aunt and Uncles house, and my Aunt was in there, and some great Aunts and cousins. One of them spoke of religion, and my Aunt said she was religious. I said that I had never seen her go to church or speak of religion. She said "God is in my heart, not some million dollar building people put up to fake it in public".

There are a few, not many, but a few "religious" people out there who believe in the philosophy of what real religion is supposed to be, but not the actual religion.....such as my Aunt. These people call themselves religious for a completely different reason than what the mainstream thinks of religion. They only do this because there really isn't any other term for it.

So when someone tells me they are religious, I have to ask them......oh? What is it YOU believe in. If they spout the standard religious rhetoric, then I know they are a true sheep of the money making organization they call religion.

If they tell me something that is of their own thinking, where they just want to believe there is something good out there in all people, then I know they are one of those who have no name.



Mister Sparkles will tell you what I tell everybody..........
Don't believe ANYTHING told to you, that you read, or hear in the media.......unless YOU have proof of it for yourself. Rock solid, concrete proof. Otherwise its just fairy tales and lies.

 

^^^Fantastic.

 

Religon, no thanks just had a bar of soap. God, most certainly!

 

With all due respect, do you honestly believe that a being of such immeasurable power and knowledge would give a damn about who you sleep with?

This being created THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE and perhaps MORE, but then decided that homosexual activities among humans will be punishable with damnation to hell...

 

I've never been convinced by the "He's too busy" argument, just because if you establish that he is infinitely powerful, it's not as though his concerns for other things will cause him to limit his time worrying about Earth, and it wouldn't be a problem for him to create a ludicrously big Universe so that he could have a relationship with humans.

I am an atheist, so I don't want to argue for God, just that I think there are better lines of argument than that one.

For me, the biggest reason for not believing in any Abrahamic religion is that I don't believe in free will, and think that the arguments against free will are so robust that I can't imagine how I could ever change my mind on that. If there's no free will, while that doesn't automatically exclude the possibility that a god will punish us for our actions, it would mean that that god would have to be monstrously unjust.

MisterSparkles, are you thinking of the Dead Sea Scrolls? I mean, the fact that Egyptian hieroglyphics don't mention Jesus isn't exactly great evidence against the claims of his existence or divinity. Plenty of things don't mention Jesus. Just because the text of a particular ancient script doesn't mention him doesn't mean much. The Egyptians didn't have a privileged insight into the nature of reality. That said, there are plenty of ways to cast doubt on the historicity of the gospel narrative, but this isn't really the place to do that.

Although I can't quite resist pointing out that in line with your sheep analogy, it is a bit unfortunate that bishops are so prone to using a shepherd's crook as the symbol of their authority, and refer to their congregations as their flock...

 

Hey Quebec,

I just want to say that my heart and prayers go out to you. It's a struggle, man, I know. I am a celibate gay Christian as well, and I respect the choice that you have made to sacrifice so much for your devotion to Jesus. The truth is that I do not always understand why God works the way He does. It would be so much easier if those verses labeling homosexuality as a sin wasn't in the Bible at all, wouldn't it? But then again easy was never the way God operated. What Jesus did on the cross was not easy, but it was incredibly good for the sake of humanity itself. The Christian walk seems to require sacrifice, and I think that is when you know you are on the right path and doing something right. Paul prayed for his "thorn in the flesh" (whatever it may have been) to be removed. God did not answer that prayer in this life, but look at what kind of man Paul turned out to be. He was the most important figure to Christianity besides Jesus Himself. There is sacrifice, but we as believers know there is a purpose to every tear that falls and a Good Plan for the redemption of this fallen world. That is where faith plays its role, and it is what allows us to push on and dig in even when we feel so overwhelmingly crushed. If we as believers fail to recognize the Word's authority, then our faith becomes utterly useless. We must "seek first the Kingdom of God", and then "all these things" will eventually be added unto us. I just want to say that I admire your resolve to stand firm in your faith, brother. You do not stand alone.

 

No free will...?

Are you talking socially imposed or universe imposed?

I would say both natural and societal influences flavor how the dominoes fall, but being aware of these predispositions changes all outcomes.

 

Skiff,

There is certainly free will. Every day we can make choices that draw us nearer to Christ or farther away. Nothing is imposed. But free will, in the Christian belief system, does not negate the existence of Sin nor the consequences accompanying it.

 

A good example is global warming controversy...

If you just listen th media rhetoric you fall one way. If you dig into the science and learn how the Gleissberg 100 year solar cucle affects the jet stream and how that affects climate (seen in geological record) media message loses a lot of power.



Being aware changes all...

---------- Post added 8th Mar 2015 at 05:24 AM ----------

Zane...

Creation (god/christ loaded words) loves ALL, "sinner" (human defined) and "good" (human defined) and does not affect creation's love in my opinion.

THIS EXTENDS TO ALL CREATION OF WHICH HUMANITY IS A tiny SPECK.

Creation loves itself and we are part of that self. Beneficial flora.

Just my opinion.

 

Skiff,

You are totally entitled to those beliefs. However, such a mindset is not a typical one among Christians. Therefore, I respectfully do not share it.

 

I think that there are two possible ways that our brains might work.

The first is that their operation is completely determined by deterministic laws of physics, in which case we would have no more free will than a machine, and the free will that we seem to have would just be an illusion.

That doesn't mean that it would in practice be possible to predict what someone would do. It would be impossible to have sufficient detail about the positions and velocities of every particle in the brain and its environment even before you consider quantum, but in principle the brain would still be running mechanically.

The alternative is that there is a fundamentally random element to the way that the brain works. But if it is random whether I choose A or B then I don't see how I can be called responsible for whatever that choice is. If my brain acts randomly, I'm no more responsible for my choices than I would be if I asked someone else to roll a dice for me and then tell me what to do.

I don't think that invoking any sort of special status for consciousness can get around the idea that these are the only possibilities.

I actually think that not believing in free will gives me a fairly compassionate outlook. If someone does a bad thing, I put that down to their background and genetics, not because they are a bad person. I think that punishment is reasonable if it is used as a deterrent or to reform the perpetrator, but punishment for the sake of retribution would be wrong if the individual wasn't free to make their choices.

 

That was a very thought-provoking discourse, Curious Liaison, but I just don't like the idea of saying that we have no free will. I think it removes a necessary element of accountability from the equation. I think people are very capable of distinguishing between constructive or destructive choices, and then consciously choosing which one to make. I do not believe we are helpless to unconscious factors, heredity, and upbringing. I think we can rise above such formative factors. That is what makes us different from every other animal on the planet.

 

Oh and one quick thing - as this is a thread on religion. My username is meant to be a pun on the Greek Kyrie eleison (the first word pronounced keer-ee-ay) which means "Lord have mercy". That's not really relevant to anything.

 

I think that's very clever. A lot of thought was put into it, which is cool. Lord knows I need his mercy.