Greetings, I watched this very interesting TED talk by Alain de Botton on how we could benefit from the subtle, effective and wise teachings of religion without at the same time necessarily believing in a supernatural deity (or deities) or the penalties that come from disobedience. [YOUTUBE]2Oe6HUgrRlQ[/YOUTUBE] He articulates what has been my own struggle lately in my half-hearted attempt to reconcile my waning faith (Judaism) with my sexual orientation. What struck me most about this talk is the idea of not throwing away the baby with the bathwater; that religion still has much to teach about, ritual, appreciation, education, wisdom, consolation and morality. The other side of the coin lies in the very real paucity of our own secular, money-driven culture to even come close to the culture of ideas that permeates religion to the core. I believe, as Jacob Needleman affirmed in his book Money and the Meaning of Life that if we are ever to overcome the tyranny of money, and by extension, the materialism that goes with it, we need to come back to a culture of ideas as the highest value, so that finally we can put money in its rightful place, which is secondary. I have started (in fits and starts) to go to a synagogue affiliated with the Reconstructionist Movement, started by a certain Rabbi Mordechai Kaplan and which evolved in the United States between the late 1920's and 1940's. Its principal idea is that Judaism is primarily an evolving civilization, and that it is primarily a cultural phenomenon that has worthwhile ideas and principles that are applicable to the modern world. From Wikipedia: The part I bolded in the quote above is very much what Alain de Botton is trying to say. Nothing binding in the sense that if one disobeys one is punished, with religion and its threat of eternal damnation. Perhaps this could be a way out of the so-called "wars of religion"; by shamelessly picking and choosing the things that religion has done well, perhaps we can reconcile some of the basic needs that religion has always satisfied along with our own contemporary (and frankly impious) outlook on life. Coming from me, once a very committed orthodox Jew, this is quite something. From Christian fundamentalists to the Jihadist-inspired fighters in ISIS, all examples of religion gone mad, the following quote by G.K. Chesterton is cogent: Could Atheism 2.0 inoculate us from these insanities? I wonder...
Interesting, I enjoyed it maybe we can pick the good instead of the bad but i see it as a long way coming
Hi, It may be a "valuable cultural remnant" for some but not all. In many ways (to me) organized religion is early politics and science. As politics and science evolved the remnant was what organized religion is today. As politics and science continue to evolve organized religion wains. That is not to say spirituality does not exist, but it has been overshadowed (ruined) by the remnant. To me it is not unlike a cancer fundraiser exposed to be a fraud. Some folks still give to the fraud as they cannot admit they were duped and they live in a spiritual closet. To me organized religion has little to do with spirituality.
I have always wondered why people talk about spirituality in opposition to religion. Yes, of course, organized religion continues to be a massive problem, mostly divorced from their spiritual roots, but their influence and legitimacy are, for the most part, on the wane. The young, especially, and rightly, want nothing to do with them. But the idea of a spirituality persists. I believe it persists mainly because the questions that traditional religion claims to answer are also eternal and persistent. Many of those who ask how to lead a good life find little in secularity that satisfies that deep craving and longing for some kind of coherent answer. It is secularism's relative poverty in ideas, its relative devaluation of ideas, that leads many to adhere to traditional, and sometimes very conservative or even extreme factions within the traditional religions. There is indeed, within these religions a polarization between the usual church/synagogue/mosque-goer and the "true believers". It is well-known, however, that those who doubt the most are the ones who are the most fanatic. If Atheism 2.0 is ever to work, it has to be within some kind of organized framework, but I would argue that it should never let itself become as big or as powerful as, say, the Catholic church. Any serious spiritual quest is better with the help of companions, but beyond that, I would hesitate to contribute to a building fund for some institution. The late, great writer, Kurt Vonnegut invented a religion, Bokononism, practiced by several of the characters in his book Cat's Cradle. I love its definition:
Religious texts were early man's first attempt at philosophy, they were teachings and are still referred to as such today. But the stories are fictitious and much contradicts the other, worse still; how many have been killed in the name or religion? What has been the social affect of conservative teachings? It's tragic to think of the manipulation religion possesses.
Alain de Botton is an inspirational speaker and makes several compelling intellectual arguments in support of leveraging the positive aspects of the existing spiritual traditions. Halakha seems like the right path for greatwhale to reconcile his religious upbringing and sexual awakening. Personally the Christianity experience of my childhood is too overloaded with baggage, though I appreciate the beauty in Gothic architecture and the pipe organ. I am partial to the Eastern traditions, namely, Buddhism, though I do not believe in reincarnation nor do I attend services. I believe humans have an inherent need for spirituality. In terms of organized Atheism 2.0 - this is where we get into trouble. Whenever there are people and institutions involved, politics emerges. If the leadership of Atheism 2.0 were as enlightened as Alain de Botton or greatwhale, then this would be viable. Invariably less enlightened people will eventually get involved and use the religion for their personal agenda. Organized religion is a form of societal control that can be used for good, evil, or a mixture of both. So perhaps if we relax the requirements of a spiritual tradition, we could view EC as our expression of Atheism 2.0.
I find religious studies to be very interesting, even as a secularist. I am very intrigued by the Abrahamic religions, and others including Roman and Greek Paganism. I think they are all very interesting, as they were created by men thousands of years ago as to try to answer major philosophical questions, and their effects still are present on society at large. I think religious studies should be taken as something as a philosophy/mythology course where we learn how past and present cultures operate, as religion was a big factor hundreds and thousands of years ago, and is thankfully losing some of the power that it previously had in some areas of the world.
I still think "cancer fundraiser exposed as a fraud" is the best analogy. hits all the same notes. Advanced as doing good but is self serving.
i count myself as a Christian. i don't adhere to the idea that it is the structure of the church that is the path to God however. i came to the idea many years ago that i can talk to God/Jesus directly myself and He/They will listen and sometimes answer. i believe that the path to heaven is ours to make and there is not one true way, except through the Teaching of Christ, the formost being the new convenant, "Love one another as I have loved you". later i learned a little about the Nostic teachings and Gospels and learned that this was a large part of their belief system, that each person was their own Messiah. the Bible has as much metaphor as method and the Truth is for us to weed out, or let someone else tell us as they believe.
Looking for me... I was with you till you made the path exclusive. Lots of truth... Kernels of truth... Spread across all theologies. A personal journey of discovery.
More on Vonnegut's Bokononism (Wikipedia): What struck me when I first read Cat's Cradle was how wise it was to make his fictional religion "eternally persecuted by the government". It was indeed under these very conditions that most major religions started, presumably when they were closer to the "purity" of their spiritual origins... Reminds me of the joke (about relationships, but equally applicable to religion) at the end of Woody Allen's movie Annie Hall:
As have become less judgmental, the spiritual within me has evolved. The belief in a spiritual being begins with loving thy neighbor and then advances to loving humanity. My belief in God begins anew when I am touched by the kindness of strangers and friends.
