Hi I just cannot wrap my head around people... I watch the weekly broadcast of Gay USA (you can find on YouTube). It is a production of Free Speech TV. What I do not understand... How can people put civil liberties in the back seat while advancing their politics, their religious dogma to the front? Without civil liberties politics and religion are pointless abstractions. Are people truly that ignorant? What really blows my mind are people in oppressed groups that choose to reinforce their own oppression by damning their own civil liberties. Makes no darn logical sense. All things flow from civil liberties. With civil liberties you can choose your religion, you can choose your politics. I fail to understand some folks.
What exactly was the basis of the report your referring to? Politics and religious dogma are security blankets that people hide their insecurities behind. Not at all correlated with civil liberties. If someone feels bad about themselves, they have a need to make others feel bad as well in order to make themselves feel better.
Some of it are those people who think that everybody should be Christian. They want everybody to believe in the same thing. Other parts of it is that people are scared of what they do not understand. So they use their religion to hide from it. It's sad really, because it hurts everybody, including themselves.
Hi If I did that people would feel attacked and start a flame war. There are no codified civil liberties in US Federal statutes. Race sure, sex sure, religion sure, there are even provisions for the diabled under the ADA but LGBT protections are ALWAYS and end run.
Hence my points about how much more progress remains to be made. Civil liberties are at the foundation of what is supposed to make western society great; and for many whom do not conform to society norms, they are just an illusion.
Civil liberties as you describe them are rather a product of enlightenment ideas which fed the French and American revolutions. Americans grow up thinking that their idea of freedom is self evident, and a self evident good.In fact, these ideas are culturally determined, and really of quite recent origin. To someone growing up in a different culture, the idea that social cohesion demands that everyone subscribe to the same belief system will be, to them, equally self evident; and American obsession with American concepts of civil liberties will seem perverse. Also, a lot of people take exception not to the fact that Americans have particular value systems, but rather that they seek to impose those values on the rest of the world. Of course, to Americans it is obvious to them that they are benefiting the world with democracy and freedom. But to those who are not American, it is pure cultural imperialism.
Nobody here is talking about world domination. There are all kinds of cultures around the globe and immigrants to the west are fleeing them.
Agreed that it's best to avoid a flame war. Thank you for explaining. Given that I'm still in the closet, I have not experienced LGBT discrimination first hand. Given that I (we) live in Massachusetts, I wouldn't think that it would be as much of an issue here, but maybe I'm just being naïve. I have much to learn. ---------- Post added 31st May 2015 at 12:16 PM ---------- Hi Camel, Since I am new to EC, I am unaware of the geopolitical ground rules. Skiff was explaining the lack of LGBT protections in the US. He was not advocating these protections outside the US, so can you help me understand how cultural imperialism comes into play?
Hi Yesterday I met the owners of a gay newspaper based here in MA. The death threats, bomb threats and continued need for federal authorities dealing with local MA based threats speaks volumes to your point. Laws are much easier to change than culture. That is part of the problem... Everyone assumes all is fine because it is kept auiet. It is kept quiet to stave off copycats. From suicide to bomb threats they try to keep it out of the press. I was riding commuter rail in 2013 and the train screamed to a stop as a person committed suicide jumping in front of it and it never hit the media. There is a bridge between Salem and Beverly that people jump from to die and it is hushed up. I only know about them through Coast Guard and Beverly harbor master connections. People assume way too much. ---------- Post added 31st May 2015 at 11:03 AM ---------- I must say meeting the owners of a gay newspaper was a real treat. My date and I were walking the beach and we stopped to admire their tiny micro) dog. We chatted for over an hour on the beach. It was so nice. The stories of personal threats made to them and their closesness to federal authorties alarming. One of the owners said it was both comforting and disturbing to be so close to federal authorities. Surreal.
It is not cookies and ice cream to be gay anywhere, even MA. Do not fool yourself. There are ignorant folk out there. The good news is the owners if the paper invited me and my date out to dinner. That will be a great evening.
It is disappointing to hear that the owners of the gay newspaper receive death threats and bomb threats that require the intervention of the federal authorities. Thank you for helping to open my eyes to the reality of the path I'm on. It's cool that the owners of the paper invited you and your date out to dinner - have a great time!
They will be at both Salem and Boston Pride. ---------- Post added 31st May 2015 at 12:10 PM ---------- This goes on...
There are homophobic morons everywhere, even though most people are not aggressive about their homophobia when sober. "Speak softly and carry ... " if you need to.
Well... What does that say about the people who allow it? Sometimes, even with all the progress it seems like we are one pink triangle away from a homophobe who acquires power. The Jewish people go to great lengths to never forget. Does the LGBT community? One madman away... And there are members of our community who support these madmen. What is said about people who forget history...?
