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Need Help Guys...PLEASE

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by timeforchange, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. Hi Everyone,

    I need help. I will give you the cliff notes version. 40 years old. Male. Knew I was attracted to guys since I was a kid. Repression. Christianity. Tried to pray the gay away. Didn't work. By teen years started to physically get attracted to opposite sex. YAY, I am not gay/bi I thought. College....secretly crushing on other male college students. Had a few girlfriends. Some sex was good. Some sex I did not feel fulfilled or like. No interaction with men at all through my 20s. Church, work, family, friends, Christian Girlfriend. Perfect life it seemed, but inside miserable and wanting a boyfriend and feeling shame and guilt over orientation. Typically repressed all sexual desires. Even after straight sex, i would feel Christian guilt and shame since I was not married. I was a sinner and condemned myself even then even though it was straight sex. Even tried reparative Christian therapy for the inside gay thoughts. Did not work. Only made me feel worse about myself. I wasn't being a good enough Christian or I could fight this....I thought.

    Early 30s. Moved to new larger gay friendly city. Now single. Slowly but surely explored gay clubs, gay dating, internet meet ups. No sex though. Just hanging out. Since i was not putting out, most guys i met usually vanished after the first or second meeting. One sexual experience with a guy was bad. Did not like it. Felt even more confused afterwards. Most others were innocent (kissing, cuddling, light petting). Then downward spiraled into the gay club/bar scene. Not in terms of hooking up but in terms of going there a lot. Felt that my "straight" life in my city was wearing thin and wanted to be around more gays. But the club and bar scene was not good for me and never yielded the type of person i wanted to meet. also always felt i was "too old" to be there and as i tried to always keep a squeaky clean conservative image in my "straight" life, being at gay clubs, dancing, acting wild and silly, being flirtatious, and even some groping all seemed embarrassing the next day with full-on paranoia on who would "tell" or if word of this would get back to my straight world. isolation from all worlds started to creep in.

    Now at 40, miserable. depressed. Still battling with thoughts of not wanting to be bi/gay. Feeling like straight men my age have things better than me. They can have a "normal" life. I feel flawed and old and washed up. I am now the "grandpa" at the gay clubs and I feel ashamed about even being there. Through all my exploration, i never really was able to "enjoy" whatever I was doing. The club/bar scene always felt fun during the event but afterwards the shame and guilt of being there would flood in the next day.

    Counselors.....tried them all, even tried gay ones and gay affirming. even tried some meds. nothing seemed to work. tried a few gay mens groups and felt like the only "straight" guy there. never seemed to be able to connect with the gay community. the men in the "out" scene just always seemed quite opposite me. felt even more alone. now grasping at straws. feel like my straight guy friends with girlfriends, wives, careers, etc. are all doing better than me. constantly comparing myself to others in all ways and always feel i end up short or washed up even though on the outside i look like i have a lot going for myself, inside i am a wreck. have come "out" to some friends and family and even some new ones. most everyone has accepted. most guys think i am straight however. they want to talk about women to me but i find myself attracted to them. frustrating. mostly the gay men i meet want to hook up. i do not. but my resolve is worn thin and maybe i feel now like, "can't beat em, join em" and will just take whatever affection or attention i can get. that doesn't feel right but i feel very close to doing that (another downward spiral)

    i am not sure what to do. i cannot seem to accept my same sex attraction. in fact if there was a magic pill to be straight and erase this past, i would. that is not reality however. turning here as a last ditch effort. not sure what i need other than to hear and know that i am not alone.
     
    #1 timeforchange, Jul 1, 2015
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  2. SiennaFire

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    Welcome to EC timeforchange :welcome: You'll find that EC is a very supportive community that will help you work through this.

    I feel your pain. I came from a family oriented Christian background without gay role models growing up. Was able to deny my gay side until I was 46 and then could no longer deny. Whenever I saw a cute guy, I felt a sense of deep longing. Took me another 5 years to come out to my wife.

    You know you are gay, yet you cannot accept and love yourself for it. For me, I asked myself a very simple question - would I regret not acting on my same sex attraction on my death bed? That powerful question started a series of baby steps that led me here today being out and proud.

    You are not alone!!! (&&&)
     
    #2 SiennaFire, Jul 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  3. thanks so much sienna. i guess my question is, i know i like guys. i can't say that i am very physically experienced with them but i know i like them. its more than just a physical attraction. i want a boyfriend and longing to connect with a guy that i am into and that is into me. but i have to say after about 10 years of "exploring" i feel mentally and emotionally exhausted and disappointed in myself that i am not further along and happy and out and proud. i would have imagined the shame and guilt to be gone by now but in many ways i feel like the same guy in his early 30s trying to figure this all out. and i beat myself up about that too. "you're a failure, you can't even accept yourself after 10 years...". just not sure what do to anymore. i feel like i am at a snailpace and a loser. :frowning2:
     
  4. SiennaFire

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    We each have our own timeline for this journey of discovery, so I wouldn't beat yourself up. I came out at 51. If anybody on this this thread should feel bad for taking their sweet time, it's me. But I don't. I grew up with guilt and shame and it took me years to unravel them to get to a place where I found the strength to come out. And before I joined EC, I did not have the strength to come out. So you've come to the right place.

    I have a question - have you ever kissed a guy? I mean really kissed him with no hesitation or holding back. If so, how was it? If not, what held you back?

    I just reread your post, and I'm wondering if you are looking for love in all the wrong places (gay clubs)? Perhaps others can suggest better places to meet guys who want to have a relationship. Sounds like that's what you need. Someone who can love you for the wonderful and thoughtful person you are.
     
    #4 SiennaFire, Jul 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  5. Chicagoblue

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    Not easy, I feel your pain. I have my own issues that go back a ways.

    However, pls stop the "washed up at 40". YOU ARE NOT WASHED UP. OK, go hit the gym, lose a few pounds etc. Always good and perhaps especially for you right now. However there are a TON of guys in Chicago area wanting to meat 40-year olds. I guarantee it. Find ways to be around younger people and "steal some of their energy". The gym is one place. Get involved with a bike club. When you're feeling more confident hit some gay bars JUST TO MEET PEOPLE, MAKE FRIENDS. No romantic or sexual goals. You'll gain some confidence and start a virtuous cycle of confidence/action/confidence.
     
  6. CameronBayArea

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    If you're in or near the Bay Area, I can suggest some resources that have been helpful for me.

    In your original post you mentioned going to bars. Have you had any luck with other ways of meeting guys you like?

    Out of every ten guys you meet for a coffee date, how many do YOU typically want to meet for a second date vs. how many of them seem to want a second date with you?
     
  7. i sienna, yes i have kissed a guy. usually with any physical interaction i am always in my head about it. but yes, i have kissed some guys where i was not in my head and just enjoyed it. in those moments i did not feel it as being wrong or bad, just a good kiss. of course shame and guilt came later. i think mostly because sadly i have not found a guy that wants to stick around. usually my sexual hangups and non-acceptance send them running. i had hoped to find someone also in my same quasi depressed/non acceptance zone since i thought we would understand each other but that did not happen. with men, i have met, kissing and cuddling is never just it. they want more or im dumped or called a tease or put down in some way because im not advanced. yes, bars and clubs never yielded anyone remotely to what i wanted or that would understand me.
     
  8. bingostring

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    If I had to have a stab at it … I would say you are possibly a bit depressed and your mood is working against you. Low self esteem and low confidence. Mixed in with a pinch of internalised homophobia.

    If it is the case, its to be almost expected given the history you have outlined.

    The thing you do not seem to have tried is mingling socially with gay people in the 30-50 age range. Your peers. These people you will probably not find in the bars and clubs. They are probably not interested in the bars and clubs any more.

    I can't speak for your area but in the UK there are a number of very well organised groups for gay men that are focused around activities (interests, sports, outdoor events etc) rather than 'sexually charged' activities. Others even run week-long residential activity weeks. I am sure you could find something like this to give yourself a lift.

    If depression is in the mix, definitely do some work on that too?
     
  9. actually i am gym obsessed and work out 5 times a week. i punish myself because my body is not like the other guys at the gym so even though i am physically fit and not fat and even have some visible muscles. i'm not perfect "like them" and i have my trouble areas that everyone always sayys "ohhh pleassseee". i have never been able to make friends really at bars. its a hypersexualized environment and anyone that wants to talk usually wants to do so with something sexual in mind. i am not innocent and also do my share of flirting at the bar seen. it's not really a place due to the loud music and drinking where lasting frienships are easily formed. well it hasn't been for me at least. people usually assume i am younger than my age so that's a good thing and also good that people are attracted to me but things just seem to go from 0 to 60 in a few seconds. i am old fashioned :frowning2:

    ---------- Post added 1st Jul 2015 at 03:44 PM ----------

    yea i have a cocktail of bad stuff going on. depression is definitely in the mix. i mean, i am in a cloud most of the time when things get bad. usually i can stave off the bad feelings with working out and stuff but loneliness sets in and then after a while its a watershed of bad emotions that really never went away all coming down at once. i tried a few gay mens groups and guys were my age and then the terrible things was when i was there, i just kept feeling how unlike them i was. they are gay and whatever i am, i am not like them" kept playing in my head. "you don't act like them or talk like them, look like them or socialize like them." kept ringing over in my head. when i am around straight men, in my head i keep thinking, i wish THEY were gay. but it's never so. when i get around gay men, i think, "why does it always have to be the same kinda guys at these things". somehow i never feel i fit in anywhere.

    ---------- Post added 1st Jul 2015 at 03:54 PM ----------

    i was i was in the bay area but i am not. thank you for the resources. i can't get private messages here yet so maybe then i can ask for more resources from you. ive been really scared to go to "gay mens official groups" because of previous experiences where things just seemed so obviously gay and i dont feel like i fit in or want to. ideally id love to be a part of some group of guys that people could assume were straight but they just happen to be gay. sometimes when i have gone to gay things its just been too much for me to take in a a bit overwhelming that i feel what's the difference of just going to a gay bar/club. i have a very hard time identifying within the community.
     
  10. thanks everyone. just reading what i wrote just makes me so down on myself. i should be much further along in this process but i know things take time. just not sure how to get there. i just have to believe there are others like me out there that feel the same way inside. all the gay guys i meet seem to assured and happy in their gayness and sexuality and not conflicted. they are truly "gay" = "happy". me on the other hand, i'm just really down. :frowning2:
     
  11. bingostring

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    aha.. you are in that "no man's land" between the straight world and the gay world. Need to get outta there

    I know that many gay men "gay it up" a lot when in a pack. I never quite got it either. You just want to meet similar people :eek:
     
  12. CameronBayArea

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    You haven't mentioned any form of online dating. While it's *hardly* a panacea for instant happiness, it does work for large numbers of people. In your case, I think having a profile that says you're more homoromantic than homosexual, combined with a nice face pic, would keep you busy for months. Even on hook-up apps, especially G*r, I see guys who explicitly state they're looking for cuddling, not sex. By being upfront with what you like, you're certain to attract similar guys.

    That said, your current strategy puzzles me. You go to bars (which feel very sexualized) and you make a dedicated effort to look hot (aka, sexually desirable), yet sex isn't really what you want. Sexualized environment + sexualized appearance = guys who want to have sex with you. Perhaps it's time to focus more on platonic venues and activities?

    Some of the resources I can suggest are various meet-up groups. There's a large one for bi-men and another for guys who "happen to be gay" who like doing athletic things. Those are only two of many dozens out there, depending where you live.

    In a slightly unrelated tangent, I want to say that a useful tip someone once shared with me was to learn to pay attention to myself when I say words like "can't" "won't" "don't" and "shouldn't." Once I was aware of how frequently I used them, I made a determined effort to stop. It's a variation of the "if you don't have anything nice to say, it's better to say nothing at all." Rather than pretend to be positive, I just cut myself off when I started being negative. Now that I actively avoid saying those words, I find that I'm seldom down or depressed. Apparently I am a product of how I present myself.

    Also, I recently stumbled across a very funny, straight "bro"-talking blogger who quite elegantly writes about relationships, work success and self-confidence. He's so simple and clear, several of his pieces were "light bulb" moments for me. Learning not to give a s*it, for example, was amazingly easy once I understood his thought process. To find his stuff search "Mark Manson" on the Internet.
     
  13. exactly and that's so hard to do when similar people to me are usually straight when i meet them out and about at non-gay places since the guys usually talk to me about girls or mention a girlfriend or wife. sure, doesn't mean they are not into guys too but if they are talking about women or have a female significant other, then it just makes me feel isolated. sadly i have found myself trying to "gay it up" a little bit and using some of the gay "sayings" and hand gestures more as a ice breaker/joke but also sadly to "fit in". which i have always been my own person so not sure why i would try and do this now and it seems so fake. i guess i am crumbling under the pressure and just want to find community or my tribe somewhere. when i meet a cool guy and i think "now THIS is the kinda guy i would love to be my gay friend or even date!" then i especially get my hopes up when he is nice to me back, and then he says "my wife, girlfriend, or girl im seeing...." i just feel deflated. For once it would cool to meet some guys that i say "wow, i did not even know he was gay" versus the ones i keep meeting, its more like, "of course he is gay...." there's nothing wrong with being gay but i just want to find my own tribe of gays that i can relate with. but it just seems impossible.

    ---------- Post added 1st Jul 2015 at 04:48 PM ----------

    thanks cam, i will totally search for mark. yes, if you're confused about my behavior, you're not the only one. it's like going to a brothel looking to find a virgin? i think what happens is i have no gay friends that are not tied to the club or bar scene. which means if they want to do something, it's usually club/bar related. also, in my mind, i kept going because i thought....'maybe He would be there?" he = prince charming. but what i found was more prince hookup. the attention from men does seem to satisfy pent up longings and possibly my own repressed sexuality but then when my cooler head prevails, the guilt and shame over even being there kicks in. i also know that if i get into the hookup lifestyle, i will use hookups like a drug. i know that will go nowhere for me.

    the facepic on dating sites has been scary because that means labeling myself as gay for the world to see, copy, paste, resend, and document for eternity. in my mind, the club contains my "gayness" to just the people there that night. no documentation. the stealth in hiding gay mode of course goes nowhere for me. this has also prevented me from joining private meet up events in my area as they want you to send pics of yourself to join the private group :frowning2:. i guess ultimately have to confess YES I AM GAY is very scary in a public and online way. i have been able to do it one-on-one. I guess i feel like people will gossip if they found me on a gay dating site.

    Sometimes i wonder if women are event still an option. in my heart i know that i would always long to know what it would have felt like to meet "him" or have a boyfriend.
     
  14. bi2me

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    Have you looked into any meetup groups? Some people here have had great luck with them. I haven't been brave enough to go to the book club I found, but I'm hoping to do it soon.
     
  15. CameronBayArea

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    "the facepic on dating sites has been scary because that means labeling myself as gay for the world to see, copy, paste, resend, and document for eternity."

    There are lots of clever ways around this. One of my favorites is a guy from OKC*d, standing on a beach with his arms outstreached and his back to the camera. It's not a sexual picture but you can clearly see his sculpted back muscles. The picture is bright and cheerful so he doesn't seem down on himself. His open arms are inviting and adventurous at the same time. In the beginning of his profile he says something like, "I DO have a face pic but I'm not into sharing my business with everyone on the planet." (This, in spite of the fact that OKC has the option to hide yourself to straights, or even to hide yourself completely, except for those you want to see you.)

    For meet-ups, guys use all kinds of random pics. I don't remember ever seeing a face-pic requirement for a group there.

    "Sometimes i wonder if women are even still an option."

    Been there, done that - and have the permanent emotional scars to prove it.

    Love is a powerful emotion...and it works in a great many kinds of relationships...but for that one special person, if either of you lack compelling and authentic desire for the other, neither of you will ever be truly happy. Instead you'll both be trapped in mediocrity, too often wondering, "is this the best my life will ever be?"
     
  16. hi. no i have not. there's a bi one that is near me and seems really cool but it is a private group and they require you submit a first and last name and you have to send in a picture of yourself or they will not approve membership. if your face is not identifiable they will not approve. i just think that is a bit intrusive and not sure where all the info is going. dont mind just showing up somewhere and hanging out but if i want to go to a straight event, i can just "attend" something and dont have to be logged in prior unless i am rsvp'ing. there are others ones though. i will keep looking. they said u can use a fake name but the picture, there's no use sending in a fake picture.

    ---------- Post added 1st Jul 2015 at 05:52 PM ----------

    cam what's your story. you sounds cool like we have may the same kinda experience? how are you handling this. are you more into guys now? how have you been able to date? you can post to my wall. since i'm new i can't get PM. yes, i heard about the new feature on the dating site to hide yourself.i may try. i have done no picture and emailed pictures to people i was interested in before. online dating is kinda scary to me but likely more efficient. i tend to do well with being social.
     
  17. SiennaFire

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    timeforchange

    Sounds like you have several new options for meeting guys outside of gay clubs. Go for it!

    It seems that you have some negative internal dialog going on and you could even be depressed. I've experienced both, so I hope that you seek help from a mental health provider to help you get past these. Once I stopped/limited the internal negative dialog, I was able to make rapid progress towards being gay and proud.

    Take care
     
    #17 SiennaFire, Jul 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  18. Open Arms

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    I'm going to suggest you hook up with the Gay Christian Network. Google it. They are a loving and supportive community of Christian gays and gay supporters who will help you sort things out. I know some of the people in it and can vouch for them. They hold conferences where you can meet other gays looking for a lifelong relationship, not just sex. (This is NOT like Exodus used to be! They do not want to make gay people straight.)
     
  19. piano71

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    I used to feel like this, thinking I "wasn't like other gay guys" because I had no desire to emulate the flamboyant / effeminate aspects of gay culture.

    These feelings melted away after I became friends (no benefits - he was taken) with a rather effeminate gay man at a Metropolitan Community Church. I was actually shocked to see how well-liked he was even by straight men, despite his 'nelly' image.

    If you are a guy who likes guys, you belong in a gay social setting. I regret wasting several years of my life knowing I was gay but rejecting opportunities to socialize with other gay men because I was "not like other gay guys." That idea was based more on a stereotype than reality.

    Don't rush to dismiss the nelly guys, even if you are not attracted to them and have absolutely no desire to re-invent yourself in that image. You may find out that beneath a flamboyant exterior is a good friend or even a guy who shares some of your interests. Recently I talked to a guy who is effeminate and does drag, but he also used to be a marathon runner (one has to be in KILLER aerobic shape to do that!).

    Now to get out of this funk you're in, I'd recommend:
    - Check Meetup for gay men's groups associated with hobbies you enjoy. If there aren't any of those, consider a purely social group (dinners, happy hours, etc.). Where I live, there are a lot of outdoor-oriented gay groups that tend to attract "just regular guys ... who happen to be gay."
    - Despite your aversion, take some time to actually talk to some of those flamboyant guys when in a gay social setting. You may be surprised what's beneath the surface.
    - Don't bother with the gay nightclubs full of 20-somethings. If you want to go out for drinks, look for a gay bar that appeals to men in their 40s. Look for neighborhood bars, sports bars, or piano bars instead of the mega dance clubs. Bear-oriented bars have more guys who cultivate a masculine image (albeit sometimes to a self-parodying extreme), if that's what you're more attracted to.
    - If you need to work through residual issues about Christianity and being gay, try attending a gay-friendly church such as MCC, some UCC or Episcopal congregations, etc. There are people who don't buy into the strict, fundamentalist doctrine, but the crazies have hijacked the conversation in the USA about what it means to be Christian.

    ---------- Post added 2nd Jul 2015 at 11:05 AM ----------

    This.

    I wasted several years (much of my 20s) not making friends or going on dates because I was stuck in this place. To anyone reading this thread, don't let that happen to you...

    While the gay community has its own set of problems, I vastly prefer gay social settings to straight ones now...
     
  20. tscott

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    timeforachange

    I came out in late middle age after 25 years of marriage. You are certainly not "past it" at 40. I can identify with much of what you've been through.

    I was on a religious retreat, the 19 Ignatian Steps, Episcopalian, when I came out to myself. The big epiphany was realizing I had the temerity to tell God He made an error in making me gay; He made a piece of crap. God doesn't make crap. I say this as a way to make you see you are not worthless. You are loved by God and created in His image uniquely.

    I grew up Catholic so I know a thing or two about guilt. If this were something you chose, than the guilt is perhaps warranted, but you are mistaken. You didn't have a choice in the matter. You were hard wired this way, no choice whatsoever.

    You need to realize that your story is not new or remarkable. Many of us have been in your place. You are not alone. You'll lots of support here. God bless and comfort you.