not doing so great.....need to know i'm not alone

Hi there, you are conditioned. It makes sense that it is hard to break through. But it isn't about what you've been taught; it isn't even about arbitrarily accepting something about yourself. It's about logic and reason. When I was little I hated myself because my guardians told me I was bad (it had nothing to do with anything specific, I was just told that that was who I was). But when I grew up I realized that it was unfounded. I had done nothing wrong. You have done nothing wrong. You are attracted to masculinity, just as I am, as a straight woman. Why am I allowed when you are not? We are both humans. We are the same. That is the only logical way to look at it.

You have helped me in my post. I hope i have helped you too. If you cannot accept yourself for yourself, then at least do it for the many people that will come after you and show them that it is all right.

 

Hi TFC,
I've dumped all religions (I've tried a few, including yours), and I still struggle with accepting that I like guys. I agree that it's not just about religion, after all many Christians are recognizing nowadays that Jesus himself, assuming he actually existed, was not a homophobe like so many of this purported followers are. (Ever heard of the prayer, "Dear Lord, please save me from your followers?"). It might also be deep cultural indocrination. From day one we see the straight lifestyle modelled to us. Not that there's anything wrong with the straight lifestyle, it's just that in most families, for example, a child will be read fairy tales in which the prince ends up with the princess, we grow up hearing love songs written by men to women, or women to men, I mean it's kind of 'assumed' that this is 'just how it is', like in the song 'as time goes by': 'woman needs man, and man must have his mate / that no-one can deny...' We spend our formative years in a culture where hetero attraction is the norm, a 'given'. It's not surprising that some of us find it difficult to step out of this expectation, be true to ourselves and live something other than 'the norm'.

I don't know if this bit will help, but I actually 'get off' on the fact that it's still a bit 'taboo' for me. Kind of adds to the excitement. When an experience is 'new, novel or risky' dopamine gets released in the brain. (This has been a useful adaptation of human beings over millennia; it encourages us to try new ways of doing things, experiment, etc). I guess I could suggest, even if it feels a bit 'dirty' well so long as you are not hurting anyone, I reckon do it anyway. Enjoy the feeling of 'naughtiness'. I certainly do.

 

It's good that you are trying! If you have a close friend you could lean on them too.

 

While I no longer identify as Christian, I was raised as a Christian with guilt and shame around my sexuality. It took me years to get over my guilt and shame and the script to the put the needs of others ahead of my own. I'm wondering if you have similar dynamics going on that may be affecting your ability to embrace your sexuality?

I'm concerned that your thinking that you are a lost cause at 40 is self-sabotage. If you do not believe change is not possible, guess what's going to happen?

I agree with your counselors that taking action and getting out there is a good way of overcoming your guilt and shame. I would encourage you to act in a way that is aligned with your goal of finding a BF, so I would avoid random hookups and try to find ways to meet guys that are BF material.

It took me years of baby steps to get comfortable with my sexuality. I wish I could offer a simple suggestion that would magically bring everything into focus and help incinerate the shame that you feel. Keep moving forward with the singular purpose of discovering and living your authentic life - try to find ways to meet guys that are BF and avoid hookups.

PS - Since you are looking for a BF, have you considered identifying as gay?

 

Maybe you can try and sort of re-allocate that guilt and shame in a new direction, like convincing yourself that the more shameful thing was living the lie, and now you're embracing the truth? I was raised Catholic, the champions of guilt, and I still am. In the 20+ years of my marriage, I didn't mind sex at all, but I had some oddly mixed feelings about it. I finally considered that perhaps my general discomfort really lay in the fact that I wasn't being true to myself, and that helped a lot. Once I finally had the opportunity to make love to my boyfriend, I've never had a problem with it, because I love him and I feel this is the right thing. (And I'm a decade older than you, so believe me, you're not too old.) It means looking at how you think and adjusting it, but it can be done.

 

timeforchange, the best advice I can give is to educate yourself.

You have the internet, so you have access to pretty much every piece of knowledge humanity possesses. Learn about sexuality and nature. Learn about the intricate details of the Bible and Christian history, as well as other religious perspectives. Keep in mind, this is not an attempt to discount your beliefs, but a way to expand them. There are many things in the Bible/Christian society, both currently and historically, that modern Christians no longer hold to, and likely you no longer hold to either (ex: eating meat on a Friday was once a mortal sin!). As you begin learning to de-stigmatize sex, reinforce that with the knowledge that even the Bible isn't perfect, and advice that helped form human society thousands of years ago doesn't always fit in our modern understanding. We now know shame over sexuality is unhealthy and harmful. We also know that other religions, currently and historically, have embraced sexuality as part of the human experience. If Christianity wishes to evolve into a modern religion that can soothe the pains of its' believers, it needs to open up to some new concepts and embrace what we scientifically know is healthy for a human's well-being, and that starts with education.

 

Timeforchange,

I'm so sorry that your going through this; I was raised to believe the exact same thing! However, I made the decision to love and accept myself for the way that God created me. You're not a mistake or some random freak of nature, God made you and he loves you exactly as you are! Christianity places a lot of guilt...

Without an explicit directive from God to exclude and condemn homosexuals, the Christian community’s treatment of gay persons is in clear violation of what Jesus and the New Testament writers pointedly identified as one-half of God’s most important commandment: TO LOVE ONE'S NEIGHBOR AS ONE'S SELF!!!!

You are Human, you are Special and you are loved, embrace it!!!!!
(*hug*)(*hug*)(*hug*)(*hug*)(*hug*)(*hug*)(*hug*)

 

Sex is a normal human function. It is how animals like us reproduce. It is made pleasurable so that people will do it sustain our species, homo-sapiens, with the awareness that not every occurrence of sex will lead to reproduction. There is nothing more "dirty" about sex than breathing, or eating, or sleeping; they are all essential human functions, without which we would cease to exist after about 60 years of failing to reproduce.

I don't know what kind of twisted past or twisted logic has lead you to think that having sex is "evil" in some way, and that people, including Christians, are supposed to not have sex or face condemnation for doing what comes naturally in human design. Perhaps a therapist will eventually help you figure it out. Like YOU said, most Christians exposed to the same information that you have been do not arbitrarily decide that self-preservation of their species is "bad". It really doesn't make sense to reach such a terminal-condition conclusion.

When a gay man is sexually attracted to another man, the feeling of attraction is no different than if he were attracted to a straight or gay woman. It is the same attraction that is programmed into people as part of the inherent nature of survival of the species. Whether "survival" takes the form of two men taking care of each other, working cooperatively to succeed, or forming a family unit which adopts and takes care of a child produced by someone else, these are all pro-survival actions which help preserve the human species. Maybe in the "grand scheme" of things, sexual urges take these many forms to preserve the species in many different ways, to deal with a dangerous, ever changing, and unpredictable world. Who knows?

Whether you have been chosen by "God", or nature, or random genetics and environment, to be one of the GAY humans, even if you don't want to be one, you have to get beyond the fact that you just don't like it, and live a life that makes sense for who you are, and quit trying to live a lifestyle for who you aren't.

There is always going to someone who wants to tell you that you are doing something wrong, or sinful, or dirty, to try to coerce you into doing what they want you to do. They will make up reasons, or dogma, or rules, or laws, to achieve this. Your role is to ignore them when you can, and fight them when you can't, to preserve your ability to do what makes sense for YOU just as you are, not what they want you to be, which you aren't.

 

timeforchange

You own how you identify, and I respect how you identify. I've been married to a woman and now identify as gay. I could identify as bisexual with Kinsey scale 4 or 5. I identify as gay because it feels closer to the truth of who I am, rather than what I've done. The day that I accepted that I was gay was so empowering for me - the word and what it means no longer scares me.

So far I have engaged with gay dads who have been married to women and a few nice gay guys who have never been married. I have not experienced the discrimination of the mainstream gay culture. For me mainstream gay culture is something to be sampled. Please read The Velvet Rage, which does a great job analyzing mainstream gay culture.

I'm a smart guy with a beautiful mind and less than perfect body. I'm looking for someone who can love me for who I am, and I suspect that mainstream gay culture might not be an ally in this regard. Yet I know that I want to meet a BF/partner, so I will persevere and keep on fighting and trying different ways of meeting guys until I find the one. I have the clarity of knowing what I want, and I will not stop until I get it.

I get the sense that you lost that sense of fight in you. One of the most critical lessons that I've learned during my coming out process is that I have to be my own advocate. My childhood scripts of putting the needs of others HAD to be purged before I came out. It's taken so much strength to come out and declare that I want to live the life that I was born to live, even if it's not what society and others around me want. Every day is a fight. I stand up to my wife and challenge her homophobic remarks. I'm going through the painful divorce process. If I didn't have laser focus, I would have stopped because things got too difficult. I will not be denied the life that I was born to live ride:

It is a difficult path being authentic to ourselves as bisexual and gay men. Do you have the clarity of knowing what you want and the determination to get it? I wish I could meet you and show you what is possible.

I watched the full Caitlyn Jenner clip last night. Her story is so inspirational. In many ways I could relate to her story - the years of secrets and hiding one's true self. Perhaps you will find it inspirational too.

http://emptyclosets.com/forum/2718622-post5.html

I'd suggest watching the entire clip. I cried tears of joy because I could relate to her story and realize that I've found the strength and made the decision to come out and live authentically as a gay man.

I hope that you find the strength within you to live authentically and overcome the obstacles that get in your way.

 

TFC:

I too still am Christian, and struggle with where that has gotten me in my life. I was so deep in the closet when I married, and for all the wrong reasons. I was so relieved, there would be no questions, no shame, nothing to worry about; I was all set!. I was never more incorrect. Wanting to be myself chased me like a pack of dogs.

You don't say in your profile if you are out to anyone, I can tell you, things did not really, truly, begin to change for me until I took that step. It broadens your network, and your chance for support. On a more practical level, it might help you find somebody . I hope you are able find some peace of mind soon.

 

It is always darkest before dawn.

You know what you want, you haven't found the path to meeting him yet. If what you've been doing (clubs I believe) isn't working and leaves you feeling unhappy with the guys that you meet, try something else, such as meetups or other support groups. If that doesn't work, try something else. Keeping on trying a fresh approach to meeting guys until you find an approach that works for you. Please don't give up.

You may want to check out the thread on dating. greatwhale posted a great book for dating See http://emptyclosets.com/forum/2729167-post6.html. I ordered a copy for myself this morning.

You seem like a really nice guy. If we were in the same state, I'd ask you out. Since we are not, I will not let you give up until you find the one! Deal?

 

I'm here for you my friend. I have my own struggles. I've overcome the religious deal but working on other hangups. Let me know how I can help.

 

Dude, step away from that ledge. I was there and it is so not worth it. Here's some tough love that I just had to swallow. STOP looking for mister right at this time. He's not going to be there. You know why? You don't love yourself right now. I'm in the exact same boat. Pull back and just look. See yourself in the mirror. If you want to change something do it for you, not for some future somebody. Look inside too, there's a lot of baggage you need to unload before your inner self will be seen by anyone. It's called a process for a reason. Coming out isn't all skipping, singing Bette Midler, and farting glitter. It's not a "hey I'm out and ALL my problems are fixed." It gets better each day, if you fall you get up and pick up where you left off.

I'm not an expert or perfect, but realizing it's not easy. It's life. Struggling makes you stronger. So buck up, smile, do something that makes you happy, and know tomorrow is coming and this will get better a little at a time. But you need to make it better. We all want a magic wand to make it happen now, but there's no magic wand.

I'm rambling I'm sure, but you should get it. Be strong, take control, be happy. But do it for you, not for anyone else. You might not actually be ready to date anyone (same boat here), you need to date yourself for a little I think. Get to know the "new" you, so someone else down the road can!

 

The gay community is what it is. You feel disillusioned because you want it to be something it's not. If you surrender and accept it for what it is, you'll feel less disillusioned. I too want to find a partner who can love me for who I am, and I'm optimistic that I will find someone who wants more than just a hookup without drama.

I was diagnosed with depression as the result of prolonged anxiety. It sucks. If you are going through clinical depression for whatever reason, I'm sorry and my heart goes out to you. Please seek treatment either through drugs or psychotherapy. As for me, coming out obliterated the underlying cause of my anxiety.

I wish I could do more to make you happy. After all your suffering, you deserve to feel joy and contentment.

When you are ready, we will be here.

Luvs,
Sienna