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Healthy vs unhealthy sex (alone or with others)

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Sorrel, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. Sorrel

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    I've thought about this one for awhile:

    When having sex with oneself (masturbation), it seems possible there are healthy habits and unhealthy habits. For me, this could be related to my sexual orientation. I hope I won't offend anyone by talking about it, just a little :slight_smile:

    I decided to see if I can change my sexual muscular memory. By that, I mean I have an old habit of fantasizing sexually about men. It's the route my mind is used to. The fantasy makes me feel "unclean", and afterward I want to forget it happened. In real life, men can frighten me or make me feel like prey. The word "dysphoria" describes how I feel when a man is sexually interested in me. It feels gross to think he's turned on by be as a woman and by my female body.

    I decided to have as little sex as possible with myself and to not fantasize about men anymore.

    So far, I'm finding that women are drifting into my fantasies. Here's the thing... it feels "clean". It feels like a deep connection. It feels like curiosity, joy, giggles. I want to be active and give pleasure, whereas with men I never wanted to do anything. I find I'm turned on by the idea that she would love my female body too, as I would love hers... No dysphoria...!

    Have any of you had sexual experiences (alone or with others) that have felt healthy or unhealthy? How were you able to tell the difference? Could you tell right away, or did you realize it later?
     
  2. mellie

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    The only way I'm able to get off with my husband is for us to role play a borderline rape. Degrading names and all. Super unhealthy. He thinks, "Well if it makes you orgasm then why not? Maybe you are bi and we could do this..." At first I thought it was just fun play. But it's gotten darker over the years.

    I don't have a history of sexual abuse or other abuse, so I'm not sure where this comes from. But when I'm with a woman or fantasize, I can envision "making love"--which after a decade if marriage, and several male partners prior to, I have yet to experience.

    This is one of the ways I know I'm gay. I can orgasm with men, but in very unhealthy ways. After sex with my husband, I feel terrible about myself. And he feels terrible about making me feel terrible. But he also still finds it fun in the moment, and does not seem to be affected by it other than seeing me depressed afterwards.

    And that was my TMI for the day.
     
  3. CameronMR

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    Mellie: That's a common feeling after more, shall we say, alternative sexual play(often called sub drop). After care is important! Of course, now that you've realized you're a lesbian, you can start on a more fulfilling journey to healthy sexual practices!

    I'm no stranger to alternative sexual play. :wink:

    Ive always fantasized about woman, rarely about men. So called Lesbian porn is terrible! You can tell it's fake by their nails! It's like it's made by straight women, for men. Real lesbian porn is harder to find.

    I had a dream in which my ex told me to stop being sexy because I made both his penises hard. Shocked, I turned around and he had a second penis I had never noticed before, growing out of his ribcage! He apologised and tucked it back into himself. WTF, right?! Lol

    I haven't really been masturbating much lately, maybe it's stress from exams?
     
  4. Sorrel

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    Mellie, I'm the same. My sexual fantasies with men are dark and I'm completely submissive in them. I was once involved with a man who tied me up, but I felt empty inside. With my most recent ex, it felt as though I gave him my body for him to use, while I checked out mentally and tried to "leave" my body. Being violated like that has left an anger somewhere inside me.

    I've also had the experience of objectifying myself as a woman while having sex with a man. I'd get aroused from watching her (= me), watching her body (= mine) have sex. I realized this shortly after I'd understood that the reason I'd always watch the woman's face whenever a man and a woman would kiss on TV, is not that I identify with her, but I'm trying to know what it'd be like to kiss her.
     
  5. bi2me

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    I guess I'm not the only one who finds long "perfect" porn nails creepy!
     
  6. TeaTree

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    I can totally relate to this! I had this feeling at one point that I'm alone with this, because here on EC and in other places I've seen a lot of women/lesbians saying that for them being with a woman is more like about the emotional connection but as for sex, they can enjoy it with a man too..

    But for me this is not how it works, I think this emotional connection is an important part when it comes to sex, and it can create a very deep sexual connection. With men I am unable to have this.

    Related to fantasies, until recently I used to feel in a way guilty for fantasizing about women during sex (because it didn't fit with my straight persona), so I've been trying to censor my fantasies, half-consciously...
    So as I needed to fantasize about women to be able to have an orgasm, my inner censor always had to add men to the scenes too...So I ended up with group sex fantasies mainly...

    Anyway, I tried so much to achieve that connection during sex with my bf, I really tried but I couldn't. And I know what you mean about feeling "unclean". Like I was forcing it. Sometimes after sex I had this feeling like I've had sex with a relative. I know it sounds screwed up, it felt like that...And I've been torturing myself that there's something wrong with me...

    But since I allowed myself to explore my fantasies with women, it just feels so natural and amazing :slight_smile: Also, I stopped having sex with my bf and how I see it ATM, I'm not sure I'll ever want to have sex with men again.
     
  7. Distant Echo

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    I feel like I'm nearing that point...it just doesn't feel remotely right anymore. And that is a subject that isn't going to go down well with the partner. I see a lot of tension and fighting in my future.
    :icon_sad:
     
  8. Shadowsylke

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    Hugs! (*hug*)
     
  9. Sorrel

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    TeaTree, yes, I also tried to "connect" with my ex-boyfriend. It was exhausting! We both sort of had a theory that I was a defensive and inhibited person. Oh come on! Deep inside I knew I wasn't "damaged goods" or some such nonsense.

    I've had the sensation of "sex with a relative" too. It's very very unpleasant. I used to get nervous around male relatives for this reason, I was so scared they would look at me inappropriately or something (intrusive thoughts). That thing is gone now that I know that I'm generally not attracted to men. I feel free now when interacting with men. I'm under no obligation to try to want them, whereas before, I believed that I had to be available sexually and romantically to men.
     
  10. yeehaw

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    This thread makes me feel more sane/normal. Until about a year ago it simply didn't allow myself to fantasize about women. And what happened is basically that I just didnt fantasize much at all, and when I did my fantasies only included a genderless head that provided oral favors and me. There was absolutely no emotional content in my fantasies at all. None. Also no one other than me had a body. And I wasn't offering anything to the genderless head in my fantasies. Then about a year ago I started allowing women into my fantasies and sometime within the last several months I noticed that my fantasies are almost always heavy on emotional content now, and I always fantasize about an entire other person (not just a head) and I love imagining myself giving and recieving. And my fantasies (which now are only about me with a woman) are sooooooo much more fun now. I'm the past fantasizing just felt like vehicle to orgasm, but werent especially fun or engaging or creative. Now they are all of those things. And yes yes yes to me now enjoying imaging myself enjoying a partners body and imagining myself loving being sexually attractive to my partner because I'm totally into it. Sorry for the long post! And thanks for making room for us all to talk about this!

    ---------- Post added 14th Oct 2015 at 12:00 AM ----------

    Oh, and for most of my adult life my entire focus with sex was trying to figure out how the hell l was going to get to a place where I could have sex (with a man) and not freak out or bolt (either internally or externally). My thoughts were always along the lines of "how can I get through this and appear basically normal." I worked on this in therapy quite a lot. It all felt forced and unnatural as hell.

    At this point in my life I've never had sex with a woman but I'm so excited about the possibility of having sex with a woman some day. I'm not trying to figure out how I'm going to tolerate it and look semi normal in the process, for the first time in my life I just WANT it. This WANT feels so lovely and refreshing and good and NORMAL.

    (Interesting side note, many years ago the therapist I was working with on sexual issues straight up asked me if I was gay. I told her I was very often mistaken for gay, but wasn't actually gay. At the time I assumed she asked because of how I dressed, but now I wonder if there were other things about how I described my experiences with sex that made her wonder. She never brought it up again, but I'm curious now about what made her ask.)
     
    #10 yeehaw, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  11. CapColors

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    This is a very interesting thread, thanks for sharing!
     
  12. Sorrel

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    yeehaw, yes yes yes! All of what you wrote. Fantasies as a vehicle for orgasm, but not engaging or creative. Ever since I was a teenager, I saw sex as a "job" I had to figure out how to be good at, and how to get to a place where I would not freak out and want to get away from the man.

    I had a therapist once, we discussed my then-boyfriend sometimes and why I wasn't happy with him. One day, she suggested that perhaps I wanted to meet other men? Inside myself I felt "No". Which made me conclude: "So I don't want other men. He must be the one..."

    Looking back, it kind of annoys me that she wouldn't consider that I could be other than straight. As a therapist, I think you've got to know what a closet is and what it can do to a person. Very important.
     
  13. Shadowsylke

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    Yes, that does seem odd. A therapist really should be attuned to that kind of thing. But they are people just like us, and some of them are better at their profession than others. I actually had a friend who left an abusive marriage, only to be told by her therapist that she should go back to the abusive husband! Luckily for her, she switched therapists.
     
  14. confused04

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    I feel completely abnormal in that I've never fantasized? I am a virgin (at almost 35, ugh) and on the rare occasions I do masturbate, my head is completely empty. I do sometimes read lesbian erotica, but I conveniently leave that out of my consciousness when thinking about my orientation. Also, I will never talk to my therapist about any of this.

    *puts fingers in her ears while singing 'la la la'*
     
    #14 confused04, Oct 14, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  15. CapColors

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    I wouldn't WORRY about your fantasies or lack thereof. For me, they are more like dreams than anything. Some may relate to my "real life", but most don't.

    I didn't used to masturbate or fantasize much, to be honest. Up until my late 20s I rarely thought about anything during sex except my partner and I almost never masturbated.

    That all changed when midlife hormones hit. Then I definitely masturbated because suddenly I wanted sex a lot more than my husband. But even when I did fantasize, it was often about others, like m/m relationships in erotica. Fantasizing about MYSELF in a relationship with someone other than my husband felt wrong on all levels. (Also picturing myself with a hot character is too narratively jarring. I'm not hideous but I'm not gonna land Dean Winchester or Imperator Furiosa any time soon. I can't fool my fantasy mind into thinking so, either, heh.)

    People's fantasies can be very idiosyncratic and be related to what they think sexy *in general*, and not match up that well to what they even want in real life. For example, I have no desire to be a fit tall man that f***s another fit tall man. I'm a chick, and happy that way. I wouldn't even want to participate in such a scenario in real life, because the idea of a threesome with two men doesn't excite me. (No offense to any dudes, it's just that one of you at a time is enough for me. :slight_smile: )

    So in my case my fantasies are (purposefully) removed from my real sex life, and each exists just fine largely separate from the other.
     
    #15 CapColors, Oct 14, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  16. doc

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    Thanks for sharing these details about fantasies. How fantasies work is something that has always puzzled and troubled me. Some people seem to think they are a reflection of our unconscious nature and orientation. Maybe that's partly true - if you are a lesbian at heart, maybe lesbian fantasies will eventually force their way in no matter how hard you try to suppress them (for whatever reason).
    Or maybe they are our way of constructing or expanding our own life story. We are the narrative we make up about ourself. If our narrative is at odds with our unconscious then there's gonna be some unhappy conflict there!
    But which is stronger - our conscious erotic stories or our unconscious innate orientation?
    Sorry if I'm rambling but I'm questioning my sexuality and fantasies are confusing me.
     
  17. Miri

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    The tiniest fraction of my fantasies were with men (no longer) and they always, always seemed dirty, wrong, twisted (kinky in a bad way?) to me. These days I really don't like to think about it 'cause it's very uncomfortable to imagine. As a matter of fact, though I've never kissed anyone, even thinking about kissing/cuddling with a guy seems dirty or uncomfortable (Their bodies are so hard and blunt. They're scarily strong. Body hair? Stubble? Ugh, I can't even. Their lips probably taste like sweat and I bet they smell horrible.). Girls, on the other hand, seem at once more innocent and more mature (read: less insensitive) in all the right ways. Like you described, when I imagine being with a girl, I feel much more energetic/active about it - not only do I feel she'd give me more pleasure than a guy, but I'm excited about pleasing her; I find it quite appealing to think that we'd both find each other's bodies beautiful in the same way (because I could never find a male partner's body attractive). And finally, imagining it that way makes me wholeheartedly happy to be a girl - I don't have to be the one with the "ugly body", neither of us does, and I don't feel any dysphoria then (though outside of that I do occasionally have dysphoria, such as walking around in public in "manly" clothes, seeing all the other "girly" girls, and thinking, "Am I really meant to be a guy?"). So, in short, I get everything you're saying! If you ask me, sounds like you could be a gay/homoflexible cis female, but everyone's experience is different. Best of luck! ^.^
     
    #17 Miri, Oct 16, 2015
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  18. Sorrel

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    CapColors and doc: yes, isn't it interesting how fantasies can be like dreams? I always guessed that they must be reflecting the subconscious somehow, but before all this I couldn't interact with my fantasies, only watch the same old pattern repeat itself.

    For the longest time I thought I was attracted to a certain type of man. Now I know that I identify with that man. I don't want to sleep with him; I am him. He is a manifestation of the man I am inside, and seeing him makes me feel sexy about myself. It seems I'm genderfluid, but that's something I didn"t understand until I closely examined the sensations of attraction and lust in my body.

    Miri, I recognize so much of what you write. The"same" thing is interesting. I get excited about the idea that "we're attracted to one another because we're the same". All my life I've been hearing that opposites attract, a man complements a woman because they're different, etc. I don't get it. To me, the sameness is the point. That's the reason for the attraction and love.

    I completely get what you mean about feeling like one's body is "ugly" because your partner is of the opposite sex! I was always very self-conscious with guys for this reason, feeling judged and awkward.