[partially thought out thoughts] I might sound like a broken record on this forum in regard to this topic, but I guess that's just me processing all this. - with opposite sex 90% of the time, sex is making them feel pleasure. Not that they don't try, or whatever, to make me feel pleasure but I'm just kind of bored and I just thought that's normal, never thought I was capable of being really 'into it, all of the time'. I used to caution anyone wanting a long term relationship with me that I really don't want to do it every day. Certain acts that are supposed to make me feel wow took forever to have any affect on me, so I just felt annoyed with my body and how long it took for me to 'get there.' I can get horny but once I'm in the middle of it I'm just distracted and want it to be over. :icon_bigg - with same sex Sex seems to touch every nerve in my body, psyche, past, present, and future. How does that happen? A kiss can totally destroy me in a good way, I feel it all through my body! I feel less 'in charge' of what's happening, because it's not a 1, 2, 3 process. Anything could happen at anytime. It's its own organic thing. I worry less about 'getting there' because mentally I'm present and that facilitates tremendously. And the crazy part.. I enjoy her body, too. I'm actively participating. It's not fulfilling because I'm making her feel things (although that is pretty fn great). It's fulfilling because I'm being fulfilled too. _______ Part of this could be that she's someone "new" or that I've been with someone for 20 years. Maybe I'm just completely gay though, and just realizing it. Maybe I'm just a typical female who happened to reach her sexual peak the same time she met a woman. I don't remember feeling this way before. Whatever the reason, I am not complaining, although I can't refrain from analyzing..
I really relate to your thoughts on your current sexuality, especially wondering whether or not the thrill is related to newness of the person, the newness of being queer, the semi-illicit* nature of your relationship, your sexual peak, a better emotional fit with this partner, or because you are actually gay. I've had all these thoughts, even though I enjoy het sex more than it seems you do. I don't have an _answer_ for you, unfortunately. I think all of these things could be true in varying combinations. And at some point it's almost hard to say that it matters WHY, if the difference is so stark for you. *I know your marriage is open, just that non-monogamy is possibly thrilling in and of itself.
Yes, I definitely know what you are saying! When I was married, I loved my husband, but sex with him was always more of a "wifely duty" to me than anything else. It was always more about pleasing him than myself, and it kind of felt like a chore at times...just a thing I was supposed to do because I was married. It's crazy that I didn't see anything wrong with that, but I didn't. I just thought that was normal. Then I had sex with a woman, and my whole world changed. I suddenly realized what a complete and transformative experience sex could be, and what I had been missing out on all those years. It was like I went from a 1950's Father Knows Best episode to glorious technicolor. Wow, so THAT's what everyone is always talking about! LOL I felt all the things you describe, and I still do, even years later. It's amazing. (!)
Interesting, what you describe in the opposite sex category sounds familiar , though I have to say until my late twenties that 90% was around 10%. After that I started being in a ltr and started to consciously work on it. But somehow most of it remained only that, work. Like 90% work 10% pleasure. And I freaking worked on it, read self help articles, tried techniques and shit. But the connection just wasn't there. I always tend to "check out" sooner or later (usually sooner). Cannot stay present as you said. Also one thing I would add, I think I have been in love with guys (though now I'm not sure what in love actually means, for me usually it meant some kind of obsessed-anxiety state), and when getting intimate with those guys who I really felt drawn to, from the moment we got intimate there was like a switch - I was not able to connect with them, it just felt wrong, awkward, I don't know. In some cases it felt really gross, in others I just felt nothing, and in my two actual relationships I had with men (one was 1.5 years, on and off, and the other is the one I'm theoretically in right now, more than 8 years) I kind of, as mentioned above, worked my ass off to get some kind of pleasure (usually imagining some fantasy-scenes during...). Based on what others are saying, sex shouldn't feel like that. Too bad that for a long time I thought that it is "normal for women" not to enjoy sex. I still get aggressive a bit when I come across people/ articles propagating that idea.
Cap, Thanks for your thoughts, I agree that the 'forbidden' aspect could add an extra kick to things. So hard to put my finger on the source. Just curious if you could expand on that further. Not sure if you mean that I shouldn't struggle to put my finger on the reason, and to just enjoy it (and just enjoy going with the flow). Or that I shouldn't struggle to find the reason and admit maybe I'm gay (and assess what I need to change in my life based on that). Or maybe you meant something entirely different altogether. I love the feeling of everything suddenly being in color. But I wonder, if I were with her monogamously for 20 years would the sex deteriorate into what i currently have now with him? This is my negative thinking! But it's also realistic I guess, since I have half my life yet to live - don't want to dump him and then just be miserable with the next person. But the magic was never there with him either, even in the beginning. I married him because I thought our partnership was enough. I never had magic with anyone before her. Yes! Yes! When I'd been married like 5 years and still no "O" despite both our best efforts, I started buying books and, uh, merchandise, and still nothing. Was in mid 30's before it happened the first time unexpectedly and then another 2 years before it happened again. Sorry, TMI. But I struggled and thought that was normal. And sadly, it is normal for many women. Anyway, when i started this whole journey into being queer thing, I always shied away from the Militant Lesbians who shouted from the rooftops about heteronormative society, and a culture seeped in Patriarchy. I thought it was just annoying and pointless to fight things like that, seemed silly and strident. Now, though, I'm beginning to understand. I'm starting to get aggressive too. Sex is actually a sensual, beautiful thing. It's not sweaty and gross and a waste of time. It's something I can look forward to, in all the ways of the songs and poems and books.. it's so cheesy and so simple, but it's a huge thing. So emotional typing this. Just thought I was frigid and broken. Thanks guys for your responses ---------- Post added 28th Oct 2015 at 03:03 PM ---------- Oh TeaTree that's I think what I was trying to say, though I might have put it backwards. I felt/feel as you do. It's like everything revolves around the man's erection. The timing, the pace of things, the degree of spontaneity. No offense to you guys out there. With a woman, I feel much more at home, with less pressure to do the standard script of activities. Anything can happen at any time, and I love that. Sigh <3 <3 <3
Ah, I only meant that if your answer is so stark (aka--I tolerate it with men but love it with women), then EXACTLY why doesn't matter more than the fact itself. If you were more in the middle, like "I like it with men but I like it with this woman now, too", then I think isolating the cause might change your course of action. Because it could just be that ANYone you had a good sexual connection with would be causing your current happiness. But what you describe is starkly different and based on gender. And it's so different that I almost don't think it matters why it's occurring. The most important point is that it does. That's all I meant---of course you should do the introspection that you need to do, but don't kill yourself trying to figure it out if it is stressing you. Because the answer isn't going to compare in relevance to the fact itself. Like: why am I tall? Who knows, but I ain't short, that's for sure.
I read somewhere that the perfect recipe to make yourself miserable is to repeatedly ask the question "why" Kind of makes sense. In psychological context at least.
Oh hon, you're not broken! You were just with the wrong person, most likely. Possibly the wrong gender as well. I know, it was the same for me. Sex IS a sensual, beautiful thing..or, it should be. With the right person, it is. And it is a huge deal...it matters. It's a huge part of a relationship. I wouldn't worry so much about this becoming the same as what you have now, if I were you. I don't know if you can really compare them, you know? They sound very different, from what you've described. You say you have magic with her but never have with him - that's a significant difference right there. I don't know how comparable those things really are, and you may just make yourself crazy trying to equate them. I think CapColors is right about that. The "why" doesn't matter as much as the fact itself. There's no denying facts. I haven't been with my wife for 20 years yet, but so far, there has been no evaporation of love or attraction...if anything, both things have increased as our relationship and partnership have deepened and become more meaningful. It's actually a lot better now than when my husband was in the picture, because I am no longer torn between two lives, and all the pain and stress that caused. Sure, that was more exciting, but not the good kind! Does that help at all? And of course you don't want to "dump" someone just to be miserable with the next person! But if you are miserable now, that is more than enough reason to leave a relationship, whether there is a "next person" or not. At that point, the "next person" doesn't even matter, you know? Just food for thought. And I agree about everything revolving around the man's erection! Oh boy, was that ever annoying! It DOES feel less scripted and more like "home" with a woman...that's a really nice way of putting it.
Thanks. Even if it is based on gender, is it the good sexual connection with the individual part I'm missing? I can't help but spin around with my questions, like what if he's the wrong guy just sexually.. does that mean I should toss him? What if it's not every girl but just HER that I have a connection with? Does that justify tossing him? To live the 3 weeks to 30 years of bliss with her that is possible? I love the introspection and self-analysis, but maybe discovering more options doesn't make the choice easier, either. I thought analyzing myself and wallowing in self-absorption would produce a resolution faster than brushing everything off. But maybe it's only possible with time. You don't have to answer any of this, just being able to type this stuff out is cathartic for me. This whole gay/bi thing is a lot harder for me just because I don't know myself. p.s. I was looking at halloween costumes and this one reminded me of your avatar ---------- Post added 28th Oct 2015 at 05:07 PM ---------- Thanks ladies, I really appreciate your willingness to indulge me on this. Uh oh, than I'm in a lot of trouble here. But I feel if I had some magic to know why, I could fix everything. - if its the fact that I am just gay I could give up on the marriage - if its an identity/midlife crisis I could white knuckle it through the next 5 years and know everything will be ok on the other side. Stay married since he's not the issue. Perhaps that I'm focusing everything on the marriage is telling, or perhaps it is unfair. Again, no need to respond just getting my thoughts out here. Sigh, yes I guess it is a huge part of a relationship but I never knew that. And for nearly all my adult life I've functioned without it. So therefore it is possible I can forge ahead and carry on as usual without it (or with it on the side in the form of open relationship). I know I can live without it, (before I knew what it was.) I'm not making sense, but the point is I'd have to choose to toss off someone who loves me and with whom I've grown comfortable with. I have no room to complain about him and the sex now when I've lived it for so long. I wasn't 'blissfully happy' but I think that's unrealistic to expect. I was happy enough. I don't know if I'm miserable now. He's trying so hard to be a good person now that this all came to a head. Maybe I'm feeling guilty now that I'm not basing him and our relationship on what could be. I'm basing it on how we interacted in the past and comparing it to an idealized future vision with her. Maybe it's possible this whole thing is just going to bring me and him closer, and now I'm not in the right frame of mind to embrace his change. It's funny how women's sexual response or lack thereof can result from an unkind word earlier in the day. But maybe there's no going back, now that I know. Maybe that's my question I need to answer.
Um...you absolutely have room to complain about it. If you're not satisfied, you're not satisfied. You are entitled to your feelings and to be fulfilled in love and in life. Just because you lived with it before does not mean that you are sentenced to live with it forevermore. And "blissfully happy" is not unrealistic at all to expect. It's what we should all strive for in life. What exactly is "happy enough"? That's kind of a sad concept. Why would you settle for that? Especially when you know more is possible. You have to decide what you want and what will you make you happy, I don't think anyone here can or should do that for you. It sucks, but you have to find your own way down this road. But I am hearing a lot of rationalizations based on guilt, and I would just warn you against that. Whatever decisions you make have to be based on YOUR happiness, and not on feelings of guilt or shame. My husband loved me too...it didn't make the marriage any more right or healthy for me. Look inside yourself, know yourself, and you will find the answers you seek. Hugs! (*hug*)
To me, labeling yourself isn't as important as deciding if you want to stay in your open marriage or leave it. You can be bi and decide you want to leave your marriage. I respectfully disagree that blissful happiness is reasonable to expect from life. Lots of people don't even have food. And many people never find anyone to love. We all have to choose between the options we get from life and hope to be happy enough. Happily for you, you seem to have a number of reasonably good options, including staying in your open marriage, or leaving it. And if you have found blissful happiness, awesome. That costume is hot, damn.
I think the only way to make a difference in the world is for people to strive for happiness and yes, bliss. But happiness is less important for me than authenticity is for example. I think when you can live in your personal authenticity, then you will have moments of blissful happiness. If you watch documentaries with people who have almost nothing, you can find so many of them are actually happier, more content than most of us are. Of course constant bliss is unreasonable and doesn't make sense. But as eating spinach if I dislike spinach won't make people in poor parts of Africa less poor, deciding to give up on the possibility of happiness and authentic love because it's not everyones constant reality doesn't necessarily help anyone in my opinion. People who inspired me the most in my life were those who dared to live authentically. So I think the most I can do for others is trying to be true to myself. Which is not easy, and not black or white, and there are choices to make every second, but still, I think it's the only way I can see for myself, which actually makes sense. I've put a smiley at the end because I realized that all this might have come across a bit aggressive. Smileys can fix that, right?
