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Desperation panic anger

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by Sorrel, Nov 1, 2015.

  1. Sorrel

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    I'm sorry everyone. This is an emotional post. Maybe too much to bear. Please stop reading if it is. I'm not expecting anyone to be able to read it. I just needed to write it.


    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

    I can't take it anymore!!

    I spend 1-2 days a week at my ex-boyfriend's house. Not because I want to, but because he needs me. He has mood swings. Appears fine when we meet up, but then, close to bedtime, the horrors begin. We still sleep in the same bed - not because I want to, but because he needs me. Having physical contact of any sort with him is like stimulating his appetite (for sex). It's like I'm a drug and he needs his fix. Physical contact with me calms him. He needs a lot, and cuddling clearly calms him enough for a while. But pretty soon he'll want all the rest too, craving sex. He thinks he'll be fully satisfied if we can only have the kind of sex he envisions, the "right" sex, the "true" sex. This is a delusion. I cannot, and do not wish, to have any sex with him.

    Depression, resentment and anxiety occurs quickly. He'll curl up in a ball and say: "I gave you my heart. You reached the deepest part of me and you wrecked it." "Do you know how much you've wounded me?" "You're so terrible."

    We try to sleep separatedly but after an hour he sits up in bed clutching his forehead, having a terrible migraine possibly. So I have to go hold him, which leads to laying down, which leads to him pulling me close and nearly melting into me. Which leads to: "Can't we just make love? It's good, it's healing..." (NO!!!!) "I wish you would want me. Can't you just pretend. I need to know what that feels like..." (Ugh) He asks me why I can't be with him. He repeats the same thing I've heard a billion+ times: that to him, sex is closeness and understanding, soul-connecting and healing, and I want to MURDER HIM. Who cares about what you think for fhjt@%%+!??!'s sake! THIS IS A VIOLATION. LEAVE ME ALONE FOREVER

    "Will you try? Will you pretend for me? Pretend I am someone you desire. Just once."
    (No, that does not mean only once. We have done this "only once" before, several times. How convenient that you don't remember. For you, it didn't count. It never counts for you unless it's exactly what you want it to be. And I can't be what you want)

    But I hear myself say: "Ok. I'll pretend."

    I'm not feeling strong, so I give in, I surrender. I feel guilty that he's on the verge of self-harm. I can stand a little pain for his sake, can't I? Endure a bit of nausea, hold my feelings down.

    I shut my mind down. I start to touch his lips with mine and place my hands on his upper body here and there. I dispassionately try to kiss him, keeping it as mechanical as possible, this is just a job, I want to keep it as cold as possible to avoid freaking out / having an anxiety attack / a fit of rage. We have our clothes on. But his lips linger on mine and he has some kind of sensual slimy longing in his entire body and IT DISGUSTS ME, IT DISGUSTS ME TO NO END. Please god make it stop. F***ING ***** GGF%+@&!??!!!! ****

    This is so f***ing slimy disgusting and gross, my eyes are firmly closed so I can detach but the reality is HE'S STILL THERE, I try to leave my body, I'm grimacing so much when he gets close and tries to do some slow grind thing, I HATE IT SO MUCH IT'S SO DISGUSTING I CAN'T STAND IT, why does he have to be so slow?? It feels like a relative is beginning to rape me and telling me I have to like it, and I have to play along. It's not mechanical enough, I can't hold my feelings down much longer....! I feel like I'm going to throw up, literally nautious, I feel I'll start crying any second

    !!!!!!

    I think I want to murder him

    (not really)

    (but ... I do)

    He'll say: "I think you are afraid of being bisexual." (F*** YOU) "Something's not right here. It doesn't feel right." "It's that therapist you went to. What did you two talk about?" "I think you're influenced by the media."

    He'll try to put his hands between my legs and say: "Are you afraid that it will feel good?" NO I'M AFRAID I'LL PUNCH YOU IN THE THROAT

    This is true. Sure we can try kissing or whatever, but I know for a fact I'll be so repulsed I have to firmly reject him. It's hard to control myself not to do it. If I do control myself, he seems to draw the conclusion that I enjoy it, and then I have to quietly endure torture.

    From his viewpoint, kissing and touching can't be repulsive. He loves it. He doesn't seem to realize what a violation feels like, how wrong it is. For both of us. If I'm repulsed, he decides it's because something is wrong with him as a person. That it has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Instead it proves that he is unloveable and horrible. That's his logic.

    If I reject him, he starts talking about ending his life, has an anxiety attack, starts interrogating me, telling me that I'm like a robot and that sexuality just can't be that black and white, it shouldn't matter that he's a man and not a woman etc. The card he always plays in the end is, "I'm doing so bad, I'm doing so much worse than you, I'm sick and stressed out and helpless and alone, are you really so heartless that you can't show a little understanding."
    He has several physical problems that seem mostly psychosomatic to me - like migraines, headaches, stomach and digestion problems, anxiety, back pain, joint pain etc.

    This means I can't voice my feelings at all. I can't defend my right to have my body to myself. I can't get angry. I can't tell him how I honestly feel: being queer is not about sex or genitals. It's a full-body thing, it's about connection, what I feel for girls is just on a whole different planet compared to the "eh" and "[blank]" and "uggh" I feel for guys. It's nearly spiritual. Divine. Profound.

    See, he doesn't know that I've been fighting repulsion for our entire relationship. That I've forced myself every time, having sex with him, for him. If I told him that, he''d be devastated.

    He takes it personally. He tells me he resents himself, he feels unlovable and disgusting, he can't go on, he doesn't know how to go on living. He refuses to seek help, make changes, reach out to friends. All he wants is me back.

    He was miserable when I first met him. Coming out to him and to myself as "likely gay" has opened a Pandora's box. It feels like he's back to where he was when he met me, but worse. As though he hasn't learned how to manage himself at all during the time we've been together. I was the filter that kept him mostly shielded from his own darkness. Now the filter's gone, and he is flailing. At the expense of my self-respect and my health, too.

    I'm at my wit's end. I don't know what to do.
     
  2. SnowshoeGeek

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    I couldn't quite read it all... yet :slight_smile: ... but I will. I have one question though. What does being there with him and for him give to you? I ask because there must be something you are getting out of it that you would be missing if you weren't there. Right? If you can figure it out, perhaps there is another way to get it?
     
  3. SiennaFire

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    Stay away from him. You are not responsible for his feelings and actions, and you deserve way better than the shit you are going through when you are with him (*hug*)

    (&&&)
     
    #3 SiennaFire, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
  4. Really

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    This is awful.

    He's like a badly behaved dog and I'm afraid you've been rewarding his bad behaviour. And like any badly behaved dog, he needs retraining. And, unfortunately, just like retraining a dog, his behaviour will only get worse before it gets better.

    So ... you can try to retrain him BUT do you even want a well behaved dog?

    I think you do know what you need to do, you just haven't worked out how.
     
  5. baristajedi

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    I'm with Sienna. I feel like sometimes when an ex or a partner is hurting or has serious issues we feel like we need to be there for them at the detriment of our own needs and happiness. I've been there, albeit not in the same situation as you.

    At some point it helps if you can separate your love (unconditional love) from physically being present with him in his life. These 2 things can be mutually exclusive. You can help and give support without staying in his life or being physically present at all.

    It seems like giving him love in the way you have has created such a toxic situation for you and is not improving his situation or mental health.

    I'm not trying to be harsh, only trying to give you some food for thought.
     
  6. yeehaw

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    I read your post. I'm so very sorry. His behaviors are abusive. Really. It is not OK for him to manipulate you into doing what he wants when it is harmful to you--with absolutely no acnowlegment of who you really are and how this affects you.

    You might want to consider reading up on narcisssim and see if you feel more sane after reading it. Maybe see if some of the descriptions seem to fit your boyfriend. They might not, but my ex is really narcissistic and about a million things in your post reminded me of the dynamics between him and i. The details are different but pretty much all of it felt really familiar in a way that made my stomach sink for you.

    My experiences trying very hard to be in a relationship with someone who is incapable of seeing me and incapable of believing that MY perceptions are real and that MY perception matter is that it is lonely and soul sucking and it was turning me into someone I didn't recognize.

    Also, just so you know, threatening self-harm or suicide in response to you making noise about getting out is a classic move for controlling and abusive men. My ex threatened it.

    There's a book out there called "why does he do that" that made feel like I could breath for the first time in years. That might be a place to start if you read up on narcissism and some of it feels like it us ringing true for your situation.
     
  7. confused04

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    Agree 1,000%. This is only harmful for you, and it reads exactly like an abusive relationship :frowning2: I am so sorry. Keep posting here if it helps.
     
  8. Chip

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    He is incredibly manipulative and controlling. You. Need. To. End. This. Relationship. Now.

    I was once in a relationship with someone who was somewhat similar, who made it clear that she would end her life if I ever broke up with her. I let that control me, and had many if not most of the same controlling behaviors from her that you describe.

    Fortunately, I had a wonderul therapist at the time, who painted a very vivid picture: That if this person drove herself down to a very tall bridge near us, chained cinder blocks to her feet, and jumped over the bridge and drowned... it would be tragic... but it would not be my fault.

    Your boyfriend is essentially keeping you in an emotional prison, using the excuse and manipulatino (and it is exactly that) that sex with you will "cure" whatever his malady is, at least for the moment.

    Closeness, understanding, and communication are not the same as sex. Just because he apparently has no boundaries, doesn't respect yours, and doesn't understand the difference between emotional intimacy and sex doesn't mean that you need to give in to his bullshit. As far as the physical symptoms, yes, orgasm will sometimes reduce or eliminate headaches, but he can get the same effect by masturbating.

    You might find this difficult to hear, but it is your low self-esteemand your codependence that is keeping you locked in this incredibily unhealthy, controlling and manipulative relationship.

    If I were in your position, I would say something like "I know you're in pain. Sex with me isn't going to solve the problem, and our relationship is over, done. I'm not going to be coming over again, tomorrow, or ever. It is not healthy for me, and it is not helpful to you. You need to see a therapist, because your behavior is manipulative, controlling, and clearly you have issues that you need help with. I'm making a decision that is best for both of us , and ending our friendship and relationship." If you don't think you can do it in person, you can leave a note or send an email. (Ordinarily I'd say this is cold, but in this case, he is very manipulative and plays you like a violin, so it might actually be better to do that.)

    If he starts with the "I'm going to kill myself without you" routine, then you can say "If you are telling me that you are at serious risk of harming yourself, then I will need to call the police and request a psychiatric hold, because I don't want to see you hurt yourself. Do I need to do that?".

    That last statement completely, in that moment, changes the power dynamic. He no longer has a hold over you. Don't let him do or say anything to shake your resolve. This might be one of the hardest things you've ever done, but it is also the beginning of recapturing your own self-esteem and self-confidence.

    Don't wait another day to take action.
     
  9. TeaTree

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    Sorrel, (*hug*). I'm so sorry you are going through this.
    I have nothing to add to what the others have written, I agree that this is extremely toxic and it should stop, otherwise it will only drag you down.
    Please don't force yourself to do something you don't want to because of his emotional blackmail.
     
  10. yeehaw

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    So, I have a comment about Chip's comment. Chip, I've read lots of your comments and I'm pretty much always agreeing with you, and thankful for your presence here (and still am). But there's one angle on your message that's making me uncomfortable. I see you describing your perspective on sorrel's life and very directly telling her what to do with her life. That's technically what her boyfriend is doing too. Of course your intentions are WAY different than his. But I'm sure you will agree that what really matters is sorrel's thoughts on what she should do with her life.

    (And maybe right now all she's ready to do us tell us about it. And that's actually powerful and wonderful and OK.)
     
    #10 yeehaw, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
  11. Sorrel

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    SnowshoeGeek, SiennaFire, Really, confused04, TeaTree, thank you so much for taking the time to read and to respond, it really means the world to me right now.

    baristajedi, you are so right. Unconditional love and physical presence are 2 different things. Thank you.

    yeehaw, thank you. This set something in motion for me because last summer, I did read up on narcissistic personality disorder, emotional abuse, etc since I had started to wonder about how he always confuses me... He doesn't seem to acknowledge my efforts, he doesn't like it if I talk about him with other people (as it supposedly "paints a bad and incorrect picture" of him), he doesn't seem to appreciate my perspective on things, and in serious conversation with him, for example discussing our relationship or our values in life, I often wonder what we're even talking about. I'll ask him to please be more concrete, but then he says I have to change my thinking and it's my fault if I don't understand. ...

    Learning about manipulative behaviour, I suddenly saw him in a new light... I could see how strange he was acting around other people, suddenly I thought he was being rude... I watched the movie "Gaslight", to understand the term gaslighting and what it's like to question your own sanity because someone else is playing mind games...

    I'm reading the book you recommended. I recognize a lot in it... I actually find it hard to take in. ...

    Chip, yes... I think I need help... things need to change. I appreciate your advice a lot. Thanks for sharing your story. What you say makes sense... it is true that he doesn't seem to have boundaries... and he doesn't respect mine... codependency, yes, I was reading about that a year ago...

    I've been exploring these thoughts before, that he might be abusive, but then I abandoned them because I thought I was exaggerating, he's not all bad, he's suffering too etc.

    I'm a bit in shock right now... need to process this... will update with whatever news I have.

    Thank you so much everyone, I so much appreciate it.
     
  12. baristajedi

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    I just wanted to send hugs to you (*hug*) and to tell you that we're still here whenever you want to vent and talk about this some more.

    I'm happy to see an update from you.
     
  13. SiennaFire

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    Sorrel,

    I would strongly recommend rereading and taking Chip's advice. He is spot on and he was kind enough to write some great scripts you can use with your ex-boyfriend (*hug*)

    HTH
     
    #13 SiennaFire, Nov 2, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
  14. Anthemic

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    This is the literal definition of manipulation. And I can probably bet that he won't hurt himself. People who say they will, usually don't. You need to get away from this piece of scum. Just reading this makes me want to punch him in the face.
     
  15. driedroses

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    I want to chime in with my agreement that this is manipulative, abusive, and undermines your autonomy. I also want to mention that as a person who has seriously struggled with suicidal ideation and even an attempt, that those threats are about as empty as they come. Also, to reiterate others, your main responsibility lies with you. Chip is absolutely right about calling social services or police if he threatens suicide or self harm.

    My singular suicide attempt was in response to a fear of losing my children. It was not a manipulation; I did not threaten my children that if they did not cooperate or whatever, that I would harm myself - I was convinced that I had been such a horrible mother that I would no longer have access to them. Their dad knew I was serious about that attempt and told me either he would take me to the hospital or he would call the police and have me sectioned. We went to the emergency room and I spent a week on a psych ward. There have been days recently when I've questioned his judgment in that situation (because I have major depression), but when I'm clear-headed, I truly appreciate that he took control in getting me help.
     
  16. Shadowsylke

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    Yeah, I have to agree. This is abusive. He may not be consciously trying to abuse you, but it's still abuse. Threats of suicide if you leave are meant to keep you there, keep you under control.

    I agree with others here that you need to take care of yourself right now and don't let yourself get dragged down a hole. I also think Chip's advice was spot on. It's not your responsibility to "save" him...you can only save yourself. Enabling the controlling behavior really doesn't help anybody in the end.

    Sending hugs! (*hug*)
     
  17. CapColors

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    I agree wholeheartedly with Chip, as I often do.

    Sorry you are going through this. But it is totally unacceptable to go on the way you are, for both of you.

    I send you many many hugs.
     
  18. yeehaw

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    Oh Sorrel, it was wonderful to hear from you. As others have said, we're all here to support you if you have more to share. You've been popping into my mind a lot lately.

    ---------- Post added 2nd Nov 2015 at 10:56 PM ----------

    And my apologies for calling out Chip specifically--it wasn't necessary for me to do that to say what I wanted to say. I am sorry about that and truly do appreciate all he does for this community.
     
    #18 yeehaw, Nov 2, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
  19. Sorrel

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    Everyone, thank you, the kindness and support you all are showing me means so much to me, I can't describe it. A heartfelt thank you! I'm overwhelmed (in the very best way), it gives me much needed strength. And all the hugs, I can really use them right now! Many hugs back (*hug*)(&&&)

    Chip, I'm really taking your post to heart because from it I understand that this is serious. baristajedi, SiennaFire, Anthemic, Shadowsylke, CapColors, yeehaw, from your chiming in and agreeing I can see that it's not a matter of perspective, but this situation is actually toxic. (even if I it makes me feel a bit paranoid to type that... I don't want to make a mistake and be unfair or selfish)

    driedroses, thanks. I had a feeling that the threats may be empty, because he says it a lot (althought acting very anxious). I've a history of depression as well, and have felt like I wanted my life to end, but never told anyone. Warning my ex that I may call the police or request a psychiatric hold is the right thing to do, I agree with you Chip.

    Little things about him I always just sort of overlooked are coming to mind at the moment... Being physical with me whenever he feels like it... Criticizing me for being clumsy ("why are you so clumsy? Do you have an illness?")... Always giving a reason for everything he does, almost never saying "I don't know" or "I'm sorry"... When I stand up to him, he tells me to stop yelling, even if I'm not... Criticizing things that bring me joy (so I stopped sharing them with him... which has led to him saying that I'm too closed up / too private)... Denying things he's said or done... or just said that my perspective is wrong, I didn't perceive the situation or the way he expressed himself correctly... Almost never seeming happy for me when something goes well in my life... instead he might question my integrity, tells me I've "changed" and he doesn't like it...

    He's said that his family will hate me if they find out I'm questioning my sexuality. Numerous times in the past, when considering breaking up, he's said the situation will be unfair to him: our mutual friends and family would then only get my side of the story, and it would show him in a bad light. This has led me to be very careful with what I say about him in front of others. I easily feel guilty when talking about him. I try to stay away from the subject, because I feel like I don't understand the reality. I feel like I'm the one not loving him enough, not doing enough for him, he's the one who knows how to love for real... He's so fragile and tender, I need take good care of him... and learn from him how to be a better person...

    ugh.

    Some practical questions are occurring to me.

    If I break contact with him, he might tell others that I'm irrational and out to get him. I just... I can't say why but it seems probable. He's got two siblings. I'm not sure I should reach out to one of them and... let them know a little bit about their brother. Maybe that would be beneficial for the family. I feel like they should know, maybe. Or maybe I'd best stay away from the family altogether. For all I know, the sibling may be a manipulative person too. The sibling is a little bit similar to my ex. I don't know what's safe, what would be ethical really, I feel a bit paranoid. I wish I could to the right thing, do something constructive, for the good of everyone whose lives this may affect, if there is such a thing.

    Hmm. And then there are our mutual friends / colleagues. My ex and I hang out and work with the same people. They love my ex. I'm quite sure they can't imagine him being a manipulative person. He's really two different people when he's out in public with me, and when he's at home with me. I have a colleague/friend who's been working with me and my ex for many years now, we've travelled a lot together. She's so sweet. She sees the good in everyone. My ex was telling a story and saying: "...so then I got really angry." and our friend said: "What? Angry? Does that EVER happen with you?"

    He's had moments where he's seemingly lost control, throwing things or breaking things. Not many times though. In the last 6 months it's happened twice. It's one of the reasons I don't feel safe, but I've been thinking that it's just an irrational fear that I have.

    If I do tell him that I'm breaking contact, it must happen over the phone. I don't want to be alone with him in his house for that. I can't say why, it just doesn't feel safe. I think he's likely to plead with me: how can I be so cold, am I not considering his feelings, am I going to throw away everything like it means nothing... he might attack me: I'm acting like someone else, who put these ideas in my head, I'm the worst person in the world with an enormous ego, so I'm a psychopath then... etc.

    I'm not sure what he's capable of. He's told me stories about how angry he used to be as a kid. Two years ago, when my ex and I were still together, another man seduced me, and I gave in and made out with that man. (It started my process of questioning which gender I'm actually attracted to, what is my gender identity etc.) My ex has said he might have to feed this man burning coal. He also threatened to stalk him and murder him, that he "might have to do that". It disturbed me greatly but my ex said that I had to understand how defamatory the whole thing was to him.

    Oh, this turned out long. Sorry! I guess my mind is trying to make sense of it all... wah, maybe I'm crazy...


    My birthday is coming up and I'm seeing my parents this weekend. My ex is not coming. I don't know if I should reach out to them. They'll wonder why my ex isn't coming, they think we're still together. My family cares a lot for my ex, thinks the world of him. But I know they'll hear me if I tell them a little about the way he's acting toward me. I'm just not sure how much to reveal, if anything. I feel like I could use support, but I'm not sure where to turn, first.
     
  20. paris

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    First of all (*hug*). It's a tough situation, I even couldn't read it in one sitting. The words that came to my mind were abusive, manipulative, unhealthy and toxic. You need to remember that it is not your fault and you owe him nothing. Moreover, it's not your responsibility to make other people happy. Vice versa, it's your life and your dreams and no one else is responsible to create them for you. Sure, there might be people who won't like or agree with what you're doing but well, that's not their business. It's just their point of view, nothing more, so why take any of it personally, why care what others think? Also no matter what others might say it's not selfish to love yourself, take care of your needs and want more for yourself. I know it's hard to put on blinders and to be confident after all the struggles we've been through but it's possible to get what we need for ourselves, sooner or later. :icon_bigg
    P.S. It also seems to me that his threats may be empty. At least when I was really depressed sex and intimacy was the last thing I'd thought about.