1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Update on CapColors

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by CapColors, Nov 1, 2015.

  1. CapColors

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    Here's an update on my journey (I feel like I'm on the Bachelor when I say that, lol) for those of you who know me.

    NO PRESSURE to read or respond; there is a lot here, and much of it is fairly idiosyncratic to my situation. I just wanted to mark where I was for myself as much as anything.

    Label:
    I've wrestled with the fact that I seem to be a very strange specimen--I'm clearly attracted to women, but unlike many on this site, my attraction was not conscious until recently (August). I likely always had the potential for attraction to both genders, but I didn't feel sexual enough until later in life for it to be noticeable.

    I consistently get a score of 3 on Kinsey scales I take, so I am going with that (bisexual) for now. I still feel desire for men, when I let myself, and I still enjoy sex with my husband. I feel strange as a 50/50 bi person because it seems so unrealistic as to be fake. Like, SURE. SURE YOU ARE. Oh well. I'm nearly 40. I can't be something more plausible if it doesn't fit.

    Desire:
    I've gotten a little less freaked out by what I initially saw as a breach of contract with my female brethren--I felt very unsettled by my desire for women because now I was in the position of a man who objectifies them, and thinks about them sexually at the slightest provocation. (Which I so do. Like, give me acne and a fedora and a dick, that's how like a teenage boy I am right now.) I'm still working through this; I have to keep telling myself that if they don't even know, it can't hurt them.

    Loss of my personal safe female spaces:
    This is still hard for me. I am so used to straight female spaces where I can share my thoughts about men and sexuality and enjoy a desire free zone, where I can just relax and let it all hang out. Having those spaces disappear on me is still kind of awful. I caught myself staring at a close friends boobs last night, and I just wanted to cry and scream. She is like a sister to me. I don't want to want to fuck my sister!

    (I feel compelled to point out that I do not have sisters, and if I did, I wouldn't want to fuck them. I DO have brothers and the thought of them like that is unthinkably disgusting. EW. I'm just making a point about how uncomfortable I feel.)

    Being out to my husband:
    Mostly this is going OK, which is a credit mostly to my husband. He still lowkey worries I'll go gay someday, and he makes the occasional red-flag remark about fidelity. But mostly it hasn't changed our relationship except for the fact that he's, um, *ahemmed* me more in bed recently. I still wish his sex drive was higher but that was a problem before my coming out, anyway.

    Being in love with my friend:
    This has gotten better, but only by a little bit. Instead of wanting to run away with her I now just want her to be my girlfriend if we could both have open marriages. So that's progress? I guess? This is the thing I've made the least progress on. I'm a bit afraid that I'll spend the next half a decade of my life pining. I've only had a serious crush like this twice before, and they both lasted five years or more. At least no one in my close circle of friends has guessed yet.

    Being scared of coming out to my close friends:
    I haven't made much progress on this, largely because they are all friends with the friend I love. It's really hard being cut off from my best friends. We are all like sisters, like The Babysitters Club or something (I really date myself with that reference, lol). I don't see a good solution for this except waiting until I can plausibly deny attraction to the friend I love.

    Not hating myself:
    I've made some progress on this. I still have really bad days, when I think that I'm an idiot for getting this old and not knowing, and when I feel like a bad wife for wanting sex outside my marriage, and when I feel like a bad friend for wanting my friend without her knowledge.

    I have a lot of nightmares, and they almost always involve my husband trying to leave our marriage because I've somehow betrayed him.

    I've also noticed that I've been over-eating lately, and I think that it has to do with my not wanting to feel attractive. Like, if I'm fat, women won't like me, and my problems will go away because I literally will not be able to act on my desires. I know this is part of hating myself for wanting to have sex outside my marriage and it's very uncomfortable for me to admit to myself (and now all of you).

    I'm in therapy to work this all out, but there's only so much that talking will do for me. I'm also looking into anti-depressants and trying to keep busy with school.

    There are also days when I feel like I'm handling everything in a fairly adult manner, and I'm proud of that. I have to hang on to those and hope they continue to grow as a percentage of the days.

    Being comfortable with my queerness, abstracted from my current life situation :
    If I were single, I'm sure I'd be 100% fine with it. I've always been an ally; I've never been religious. My family would support me. I'd still mourn my previously straight female spaces, but I'd go out an enjoy some queer female spaces, if you know what I mean. It would be a trade off. I'd be excited to see what queer life had to offer me.

    ***********

    Next steps:
    I think the best I can hope for is coming out to my friends within the next six months or so, including the friend I love. It's not much, but living more authentically will help me feel more comfortable and less freaked out, I think.

    I've tentatively set the date for doing so around my birthday (late winter), after the craziness of the holidays.

    At that point, I'll see where my chips land. Hopefully I'll keep all my friends, and the friend I love will somehow make it clear that she'll never be into me. THEN I hope I can move on from her. I don't know what I'll do if she indicates anything otherwise. I won't ever cheat on my husband, but I guess I may have to radically change my friendship with her if seeing her is too painful. I just have to have faith that she is too straight and married to be wandering.

    Later steps:
    I at some point (5 years from now? 10?) I think I'll want to open up my marriage to at least experiment sexually with women. However, because I don't know what my hormones will be doing at that point, I can't say for sure I'll want to with enough intensity to risk my marriage. I will just have to wait and see.

    Overall:
    I am still pretty angry and upset that this has happened to me. I was perfectly happy as a heterosexual monogamous person, and essentially waking up one day to realize I was neither but that I couldn't DO anything about it was tough.

    But I also think I'm handling it as well as I can (staying faithful, trying to help others on this site, going to therapy, starting meds if needed, telling my husband as much as I can, etc.). No one has been hurt overmuch in the process of my coming out. If I can keep everyone mostly happy with everything, that will be a major credit to me; it will be something to be proud of.
     
  2. baristajedi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    2,838
    Likes Received:
    828
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Gender:
    Other
    Gender Pronoun:
    They
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Thanks for sharing this. A lot of this resonates with me.

    My question, whether you feel like sharing or taking as rhetorical is up to you :slight_smile:, how are you coping with all of your intense feelings?

    I know you talked about food (I can so relate to that!), and therapy and possibly meds.

    I have a hard time coping sometimes, but as far as more productive ones that I've found helpful, listening to music, journaling, connecting a little to local lgbt stuff and talking to my bestie and my mom, therapy too but this is just starting for me.
     
    #2 baristajedi, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
  3. SnowshoeGeek

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Iowa
    I know that bisexuality isn't popular in any circles, and apparently for some it is a stage on the way to gayness. But I think it's a completely legitimate way to identify. I have identified as bisexual for 35 years now! And maybe I still am... when I asked my FWB a couple of months ago, do you think I'm a lesbian, he said, "Not when we're having sex!" So there you go.

    I have always felt more ashamed of bisexuality because it does get so little support (other than the 'hot bi babe' thing - oh cool, I can have a threesome with this chick! - yeesh!) I think personally that people resist it because it seems to imply nonmonogamy. Of course I support nonmonogamy so I'm not a good apologist for bisexual (or any) monogamy. But I think people assume that if someone is bisexual then they must be frustrated all the time unless they have both a girlfriend and a boyfriend. But that's also kind of relationship-normative. Like a person has to be in a relationship to be normal. There is plenty of that around too, one of the reasons it's taken me so long to feel comfortable not having one.

    Anyway I understand your feelings, and I think I could be struggling so much also because bisexuality feels like... "passing" - like I am not sure if I have identified this way so I could function invisibly in the straight world, or because it's easier to get men than women... I still don't know that. But you feel as you feel. If you are aroused by both men and women then you are aroused by both men and women. For me maybe my shame is because I haven't really acted on it fully. Girls have been a sideline. I have never really devoted myself to meeting women only or presenting myself as sincerely interested in a relationship with a woman, and men always seem to be more visible, more proactive, more aggressive, and more openly interested in getting it on. I feel like I have to completely obliterate men as a presence in my life in order to pursue women. I don't know that this makes me a lesbian, maybe I am hoping that will help me find out. But I don't know that it will make me identify less as a bisexual. I think it's economics. In my own experience it has been so difficult to find a woman that perhaps I would hold onto her forever and be a de facto lesbian. It's all very confusing! :confused:
     
  4. CapColors

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    Not particularly well, I guess is the answer. Having a "deadline" helps a lot. Because I know that at some point my current life inside the closet will be over.

    Honestly focusing on my husband and my school work are some of the most helpful things for me now. Watching porn or lgbt media just depresses me. (I couldn't even make it through the pilot of the L word---too much overidentification with the main character!)

    Eventually I'll join the larger LGBT community here, as more of an activist or social organizer. Right now I really don't have the time.

    Trying to stick to a more rigorous diet may help me: I was able to do so last week and felt good about it.

    I should cut down on my drinking a bit (nothing clinical--5 drinks a week maybe) but I gotta tell you it's hard to hang with my friends sober now. That's a really sad statement when I see it typed out like that. Ugh.
     
  5. CapColors

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    Yeah, it seems obvious to me that there are clearly different camps in the bisexual world.

    Camp 1: People who are using it as a transition label on their way to gay. TOTALLY FINE. I think the existence of bi as a term for people like this is critical. It's confusing for the world at large and for people who are "really" bi, but trying to stop it being used as a safety blanket for questioning folks would be a) cruel and b) impossible anyway.

    Camp 2: People who are mostly straight or gay with exceptions. (Kinsey 2s and 4s for lack of a better way to clarify.) These people seem to me to be more or less fine with straight or same sex relationships predominantly.

    Camp 3: The Kinsey 3s. The people who no one else believes exists. And who frankly I'd assume didn't exist if I didn't think I were one of them.

    Camp 4: The people who are not turned OFF by the presence of their less preferred gender and may experiment with them or fall for them occasionally. They don't tend to pursue them, though.

    Camp 5: Young kids trying on different labels and exploring, who end up being in Camp 1 or Camp 4 or actually pretty straight (none of the camps) but want the illicit thrill of exploring. These kids get a horrible rap (especially girls who supposedly do it for attention) but I think that is preposterous to shame them for it. Kids should be able to explore all kinds of things in their lives within safety constraints.

    Camp 6: People who would identify as gay or straight but have significant past relationships with people of the non-preferred gender. They want to acknowledge that time they spent in their lives, even though it didn't match their preferred sexuality.

    I'm sure there are other "camps" but this is how it seems to me, a NewBi. (Hee, that's a cute name! NewBi!)

    ******************

    As for you, SnowShoe, I personally think "bi" is flexible enough to cover your lived and preferred experience as you've described it, but if you want to identify as lesbian because that's what you think you want your future to hold, that's fine too! Why not? It's all good. :grin:
     
  6. bi2me

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Ohio
    Hi CC,

    Thanks for the update. When you put it all on "paper" like that, it looks like a TON of progress to me. :slight_smile:
    (*hug*)
     
  7. CameOutSwinging

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New York City
    I'm curious about the friend that you love. Do you have any reason to think that she might have the same feelings as you? I'm sorry if that's something you've discussed before. I had a crush on a straight guy once back in college. I don't know that I was in love with him, but it was a pretty major crush. First guy I ever imagined actually being in a relationship with and not just having sex with. He shot me down (cause he was straight) and I was heartbroken. Actually cried. But I got past it. I still think about him from time to time, but getting rejected and knowing there was no chance made it an easy thing to move past. Moreso the knowing that there was no chance.

    Thanks for sharing everything!
     
  8. CapColors

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    Thank you my darling.

    ---------- Post added 2nd Nov 2015 at 06:41 PM ----------

    I think there's a only a very slim chance she feel exactly the same---2%?

    Does she have a more mild crush on me? It's a higher likelihood. Maybe 10%

    Has she considered me sexually at least once? Almost certainly.

    So my odds aren't zero (she's bi), but they aren't great. Then again, I prefer it if she doesn't love me, in the long run. Or so I keep telling myself.
     
  9. Zen fix

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2015
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    California
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    A few people
    CapColors I appreciate you sharing your story. I can relate to it in many ways. I'm glad your husband is at least somewhat accepting. I wish you good things moving forward.
     
  10. CapColors

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    Thank you, Zen. And good things to you.
     
  11. rachael1954

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    315
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    Thanks for your update, it's good to hear your progress, how far you come and your goals for continuing progress.

    I relate to many things, including the current phase of overeating. I'm hoping it's a phase, at least.

    I guess I related to these the most.
     
  12. CapColors

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    898
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    Oh, hon, I wish no one related to my story because it's kind of pathetic. That being said, we are all doing the best we can, and if we are genuinely trying to avoid hurting people, then that's definitely not pathetic.

    HUGS
     
  13. biAnnika

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Northeastern US
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Hey Cap'n, I've wanted to reply to this for a while now...finally, my chance has come!

    I'm maybe a less extreme (and reversed) version of this. Once my partner and I got together, it was like "we don't need men!" And for a good 20 years, it stayed like that. I'd notice a hot/cute guy, but mostly just in passing. Later in life (late 30's), it started to become more of an issue. These days it's an increasing distraction. So your attraction (or the extremity of it) being a recent thing connects for me.

    This "breach of contract" thing you cite is foreign to me. Maybe I'm just a *lot* more used to feeling attraction to women. It just doesn't seem to me that there is any contract or understanding that you won't find a person desirable...or rather, there is *always* a contract that you *aren't* privately fantasizing about them, whether they are male or female. Men are allowed to have those fantasies and women aren't...but we do. All the time. And that contract was made by men. I just refuse to sign it.

    But on feeling like a teenage boy...is your attraction to women very different from your attraction to men? Like *really* different? Because for me, it's very similar (analogous)...different parts/activities, but still private fantasies and visualizations that at extremity can make it uncomfortable to interact with a person (this extreme is quite uncommon with both women and men, but it happens on occasion). Maybe I never *stopped* being a horny adolescent? But I don't associate those fantasies with being like a teenage boy...I just associate them with being a sexual human being.

    Wow, cannot relate. Having identified as bisexual since I was 16, I *never* had "safe spaces" of any kind. And maybe it's just a matter of being fairly open as bisexual, but I can't think of any friends who just hang out comfortably naked with me. Past or present. Would definitely be awkward...I get that.

    Great for you to be out to your husband. I know that the openness of communication I have with my partner has been a huge source of strength for us. We discuss our sexuality openly, and commiserate on missing men...and it helps a *lot*. This is possibly still new enough with your husband that you're not at that level of openness. But you've opened a critical door of communication. Kudos.

    Being in love with friends? Been there. And there. There again. *sigh*

    But on being scared to come out to friends? Completely understandable. But also less than completely rational. On the one hand, many of your friends will likely be understanding/accepting. And on another hand, once you're a bit more generally out, you'll start developing queer friends with whom you're apt to connect even more strongly than you do with straight friends.

    Here's where my being able to relate goes into overdrive, and what drives my strong desire to reply to this thread. I was with my partner 20 years before starting to feel my attraction to men as an imperative. You can be forgiven, Cap'n, for not realizing you have strong attractions to a group of people society tells you you shouldn't be attracted to. I'm afraid I'm the idiot here.

    But what I realize when I'm being completely rational is that I couldn't possibly have known. I valued monogamy...was raised to. So it was in my blood and the air I breathed that if I loved my partner (and I do) then I wouldn't have a need for (a) other women or (b) men at all. How could I have "just known" that all that training was just wrong...or at least didn't apply to me? Yes, hindsight makes it obvious. But give yourself a break here in the now.

    Oh, but that training is still there. I went through years of denying myself my own emotions. Stopped myself from feeling love that I felt. Stopped myself from feeling desire that I felt. That is a *terrible* unhealthy way to live! Because when you stop yourself from feeling *particular* emotions, you stop yourself from feeling emotions generally. And now...my partner understands and accepts that I can be in love with many people, and that it doesn't have to threaten our relationship. She's given me permission to feel what I feel, and to develop and sustain relationships with others. And it has taken me years to absorb this, and to start getting back to the point where I can actually let myself *feel* what I feel. But OMG, dear...I feel *terrible* some days for feeling love apart from her...for wanting love apart from her...and for wanting sex apart from her.

    Perhaps. It certainly is wonderful that you've been honest, haven't cheated, that you are confronting this and dealing with it in a direct and overt way. But I also want to remind you that you are responsible for ensuring *your* happiness alone. Others are responsible for ensuring theirs. You are who you are. Who you are (woman, queer woman, whatever)does not put a burden on you to make others happy or comfortable. It's not your responsibility to keep everyone jolly...or even mostly jolly...it never was. It's your responsibility to *be* happy. If you aren't happy, nobody else will be either.