Math: The root of pi doubled (or something) Bear with me, the metaphors are unending. Existential breakdown with hubs earlier today. When this whole 'date a woman' thing started, he was upset with me because I was not supposed to 'transfer my emotions from him to her.' So today I was trying to explain that we couldn't stay together, because of my feelings for her. He responded differently today, saying that my feelings for her don't diminish my feelings for him. He said that my love for him is a pie, and now that I have her I have a second pie. He also said that we have pets. If we got another pet, it would not diminish our love for the current pets. I countered, saying I'm only one person and therefore only have 1 pie. At the moment, he has a thin slice (only because he lets me see her & b/c of our history together) and she has the rest. And, if a parent has an only child, that child will receive all the resources and love the parent has. If the parent has 19 children, each child will correspondingly receive less affection/love/resources. I'm saying that there is only one pie. I wonder also at the difference in his point of view from "you can't transfer emotions" to "there are two pies". Is it that he is increasingly afraid of losing me and is now changing stuff in his mind to accommodate the realities? ___________________________________ Also, separate yet related: Just because if I'm horny and either sex could get me there, it doesn't mean for sure I'm Bi, or does it? It doesn't mean I'm not a lesbian or am I a Homoromantic Bisexual? Gay guys can be married to women for years happily before realizing they're gay...
I think when you love a second person the only thing that reduces is the amount of time available for each person not the love you have for them.
Re: Math: The root of pi doubled (or something) I don't think someone can tell someone else what their feelings are or mean. That's for the person themselves. So he can try to tell himself all sorts of explanations about your feelings but only you know what they mean for you. I think he's grasping at straws, unfortunately. As for being bi vs. gay, I think you only need to consider this moment in time. If you're only attracted to women, this woman, you are a de facto lesbian. When you're 80 and look back at your life, it may be that in the grand scheme of things you were bisexual. Fine, but for now, it sounds like you're less interested in men than women so...
Yeah, there's only one "pie". Different people in your life will get different size pieces, depending on how you feel about them, but there is only so much of you to give, ultimately. I know for me, I couldn't do the open marriage thing. I was just torn to shreds trying to bounce back and forth between the two of them and, truth be told, I really just wanted to be with her all the time anyway. I knew this. All things were not equal, and trying to pretend they were didn't help anything. I doesn't mean I didn't love him. I did, and I still do. He was a huge part of my life for many years, and he will always have a piece of me. But he was not the life partner for me. She was. You can still love someone and know you can't stay married to them. I have no ill will towards my ex, even despite the abuse. I wish him well, and I want him to have a happy life with his new wife. Only you know how you feel and who gets what "pie". I agree with Really in that he can tell himself and you whatever he wants, but only you really know what your feelings are or what they mean for you. As for the other thing, it could be either. You could be bi, or you could be a lesbian who is just more comfortable with the bi label for now. It's hard to say. I don't know if it matters much in the scheme of things.
I'm with Really on this. *He* says these things? What the hell does he know about how much pie there is and how it's split up? It was weird hearing it, because as a poly-natured person, *I* have thought these things. I love my partner, yes. But I also have love for this person. And that person. Without it reducing the amount of love I have for my partner! As Tom says, I'm limited in the amount of time I have to spend with people (including writing posts like this)...but the love is there, and the desire to spend time with *many* people (including writing posts like this!). But I would never assert that *someone else* has the capacity to love many people, and that therefore their love for another person can't lessen the amount of love they have for me. I mean, to be honest, whatever your capacity for loving multiple people may be, it doesn't *sound* like you love him...you appreciate his flexibility, and perhaps your past together...but it sounds like regardless of capacity you love this woman, pretty exclusively at the moment. If you do feel this way, then his opinions on the matter are pretty irrelevant.
It sounds like a lot of mental and emotional gymnastics to me. He can feel whatever he wants to feel, but he cannot deny or invalidate the reality of your feelings with his pie or pet analogies. Your love is not a pie and there is only futility in entertaining such conversations. As far as labels are concerned, there is only one person who can decide upon the correct label for you... and that's you. Nobody can tell you if you are bi or lesbian and nor should they, because it's not their place. Very few people are 100% straight or 100% gay, but that doesn't mean the overwhelming majority of people are bisexual either. Our sexuality is more about our desires and feelings of attraction, than what we might be capable of -- it's an emotional thing. Just because we can do something, it doesn't necessarily correlate to our deepest desires and feelings. There are millions of gay men and women around the world, who have, at some point, managed to have sex with the opposite sex, but it doesn't alter the fact that they are and always were gay. Our bodies will nearly always respond to sexual stimulation, but if our mind is somewhere else there is a clear disconnect. Is that been your experience?
I don't know entire detail but sounds like he loves you a lot and is scared of losing you. Sort of barganing, trying to settle for something less in order to keep you. Not sure how long that lasts since i am not psychology expert. What counts is the outcome. He may back out later on if it is something less in life he has bargained for.
I'm still confused as to why how gay or bi you are matters, given that you don't seem to love him all that much, and you do love her? You tolerate sex with him but love it with her? Those seem like the important pieces of the puzzle. I'm the LAST one to tell a bi person to leave a happy open marriage, because I personally think that sounds like the greatest thing ever, but it doesn't seem to be working for you all that well whether you are lesbian or bi.
No wonder I'm exhausted! Full stop. That caught my attention. Yes, I feel at this point in time I found in her what I've looked for in a lifetime with him. With him I'm 1) mind wandering elsewhere, but he gets frustrated with that so 2) i get into it for his benefit which leads to 3) me enjoying it or the closeness of it or the security/comfort/his enjoyment of it. With her, as long as I'm not analyzing "am i gay, does enjoying this make me gay.. how can I analyze this for gayness?" As long as I'm not doing that (which is not hot in any way), I can really get into it with her mentally. Fireworks, planets colliding. But I have all these logical, realistic fears which I'll outline below that are clouding my judgement and invalidating my feelings/emotions. I feel like the passionate side of me is Captain Kirk, arguing for how safe and relaxed she makes me feel. How I've never felt this way before and I should stop wasting time. And the logical side is Spock, who is giving facts to make me not do something foolish. If I were given a certificate by God/Allah/whoever that I am in fact a 5.5 or higher on the Kinsey scale, I could end my mental torture of myself and end my marriage based on that. I would KNOW that my obsessing has justification. But the whole 'new relationship energy' and 'midlife crisis: time for something completely different' and 'wow I haven't had sex with anyone besides the hubs for 20 years' and don't forget 'maybe this is a new obsession, like that [insert musical instrument or fitness club] that you HAD to have and once you got it you never used it.' (this is Spock) So I wring my hands in frustration and post about the same things, months on end. Yes, I've gotten some books, done journaling, meditation, T, group T, and no clear answer emerges. As far as the happy open marriage part... I know how great it sounds, and how I should just quit complaining... but eventually the gf is gonna call it off, and I have no idea what I will do when that day comes. It's a chance now to look back critically on my marriage and see it from a new perspective and see if it was happy or just is something functional between two people who look out for each other. And isn't that enough... who am I to throw that away for some hottie that changed my life? People's feelings go through cycles.. If I want to stay married I have to suffer, at least for now, and maybe forever. If she were a man my behavior would not be tolerated and I'd be divorced already. If she is just a tiny bit better as a soulmate than him because of the sex and other characteristics, does the pleasure of enjoying that tiny extra bit justify going through the torture that would be divorce? No need to answer just thinking out loud.
It definitely sounds like he's just rationalizing how to not lose you. He wants to believe your love for him hasn't changed. He's holding on to strings. You've even told him that you're just not as in love with him anymore. It's amazing the things we can explain out and rationalize when we are afraid of losing what we have. Sometimes I think I should have left my wife the moment I felt myself falling in love with somebody else. Never mind that he was 18, and that our relationship probably never would have worked. I felt my love for him as so much stronger than that for my wife. And I've told myself that I can get back to the love I had for her. The love that was really strong and true not that long ago. But maybe I should have been more honest 6 months ago. That's not to say you should leave every relationship you're in as soon as you find yourself developing feelings for somebody else. Or maybe it is. I have no clue anymore.
Re: Math: The root of pi doubled (or something) Your husband could be raising a fair point if this was the agreement that you had. I'm not saying that developing feelings for her was wrong, but from his perspective this was not part of the deal. I agree with Orchidea123 and CameOutSwinging that this breakdown sounds like bargaining on his part. Whether there is 1 pie or 2 doesn't really matter. If there are 2 pies, it's clear that he has the smaller one. I guess I'm wondering if he only has a thin slice of pie, why are you continuing to stay married?
Re: Math: The root of pi doubled (or something) I'm afraid of making a mistake. If I leave him he's made it clear there'd be no going back and I believe him. So if something happened with her I'd have no one. And be divorced. He's willing to keep the marriage open forever, so if it ends with her, I can simply meet another woman to take her place. But is it that simple? I'm not sure anyone can ever take her place. And that's all the "love hormones" talking. I am scared of making a bad decision while I'm under the control of these super strong emotions. But the "limerance/projection/love" I'm feeling will only ever "die" if I move in with her and experience everyday, daily life with her to demystify her. Then it will "die" or move to a "true, lasting" love. So I can never know what it will be like, long term with her, unless I were to divorce him. I know marriages can go through rough patches and that it's easier to patch things up with a current partner than to start something new (better odds of staying together). But If I feel like this in 10 years, I will know I made the wrong decision.
Ahhh the fear. Fear of choosing wrong will literally freeze you where you are until circumstances force you to do something. You would hope of course that by that point things will be clearer, but there's no guarantee. It just delays the inevitable. So at some point, I think we have to tell the fear to go screw itself and do what feels right at the time. I can see your stakes are very high but I don't know.. if you wanted something, if you went with your heart and yet down the line it didn't work out, is that really a mistake. I don't think so. Whereas, potentially feeling regret at not having had the conviction to follow your heart, that could really sting years down the line. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you work it out.
Re: Math: The root of pi doubled (or something) You explained exactly why I didn't want to call off my wedding.
Re: Math: The root of pi doubled (or something) I'm afraid that I don't have a lot of advice for you. In my situation I have the clarity of knowing I'm gay and that I need to leave my marriage to live as a gay man. Once you start separating, the faults of the relationship become so clear, such that I probably wouldn't go back even if I were a Kinsey 4 bisexual. If you feel that your marriage is worth saving, then go for it. Otherwise, why torture yourself or feel that you have to settle for your husband?
