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So confused (this is long)

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by biblondegirl, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. biblondegirl

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    Hi everyone,

    I am new here and this is my first post. For some quick background: I am 38 years old, married almost 10 years; no kids. I remember having strong feelings for women throughout my life, but always told myself I just 'admired' them. In college, I would sneak into the sexuality section of the library stacks and read books in the LGBT section (never checked them out). I had crushes on guys, but no boyfriends. I was shy and had no social life (no friends, either; I was a lone wolf).

    After college, I stayed in my small hometown and was eventually set up on a blind date with the man who become my husband. We fell fast and hard (both of us were inexperienced; I was his first girlfriend). We got engaged after just 2 months, but waited a year to get married (my idea so we could actually get to know each other better. I was nearly 29 and he was 34 when we married). I was in love and figured my crushes on women were a thing of the past

    I was wrong. Shortly after we married, my husband and I had some communication and other incompatibility issues. During this time, I met the woman who would become my best friend online. She was also married with no kids. We had a lot in common and talked every day. I began to feel those girl crush feelings returning again.

    She figured out I was crushing on her before I fully realized it, and called me out on it. I was embarrassed at first, but she said she understood and was cool with it and that it was ok if I was bisexual. That was when I finally admitted it to myself. During this time, though, my BFF developed her first girl crush--on a mutual online friend of ours. I was jealous and sad --why not me? Luckily, that crush ended quickly and she and I began occasionally exchanging flirty texts. Some were pretty...direct.

    My husband and I ended up getting through our difficulties and are closer now and happier. I worked up the courage to tell him I was bi and he took it well. My friend remains happily married. She defines herself straight but with 'bi tendencies', thanks to her unexpected girl crush. She almost exclusively talks about hot guys.

    After five years of talking we finally met in person in a city between us. (my husband couldn't go but hers did, along with her mom, so he could have someone to hang out with when my BFF and I wanted time to ourselves). We are both introverts, and mentioned wanting to go to bookstores. Her comment (online, before we met) was that if people saw us together, they'd think we were lesbians, because she doesn't wear a wedding ring and looks androgynous. I said, "I don't mind; you're my favorite woman.'' She responded with a big 'smiley' emoticon.

    So, we did actually go to bookstores when we met in person, and this is where the odd thing happened. She had told me ahead of time to be prepared because she was socially anxious, and not touchy-feely and not a 'warm' person. Sure enough, the first day we spent together, she kept her distance and rarely looked me in the eye.

    By the second day (at the bookstore) things had improved. We found ourselves alone (except for a man browsing near us) in the non-fiction section. I was absentmindedly rubbing my shoulder, and she suddenly asked me if I wanted a massage. I was shocked, because she had told me she was hands-off with people, and this was in a public setting and there was this guy standing right near where we were, which made things feel awkward (to me). She then added, 'Unless that would freak you out" and I said, 'No, no, go ahead.' So she came up behind me and began massaging my shoulders with that guy standing right there, most likely pretending not to notice what was going on behind him. I wanted to enjoy this unexpected closeness with her, but I still felt awkward.

    After a few minutes, she stopped (and the guy had left). I made a comment that I might need to take her up on it again later at the hotel. By the time we finally got back to the hotel later that evening, my friend came over to my room and shortly after we settled in, she asked if I wanted a massage. I said yes and sat in front of her on the bed. As she began massaging my shoulders again she talked about how various male clients of hers (she's a hairstylist) used to let their enjoyment being known of her shampoo jobs too earnestly for her liking sometimes. She talked about these guys the whole time she massaged my shoulders, and after a few minutes, said, "I hate to say it, but my hands are already getting tired" so that was the end of it.

    Later on, she talked about her girl crush of years ago, and I made some comment about having been jealous, but she didn't acknowledge it (or pretended not to hear me). We hugged goodnight later on, and then the next day, when we parted ways to head back home, we hugged for longer. When we returned home, for the whole next week she called me, 'My love' when we signed off for the night, which is something we had done for years prior, but usually not for multiple nights in row. She told me she had been more comfortable with me in person than she had expected, and that she couldn't wait until these trips could be just the two of us.

    Meanwhile, she keeps talking about hot guys and never flirts with me online anymore. In the meantime, I'm wondering if the brief physical encounters between us on this trip meant anything at all, or if I'm reading too much into what happened? I just really wasn't expecting a massage (however platonic-seeming and brief) to occur in a bookstore and again at the hotel, because she she had told me she wasn't an affectionate, expressive person. Is this the sort of thing that commonly happens between adult women best friends? Or am I just holding onto an unrequited crush?
     
  2. Really

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    Hi biblondegirl,

    Welcome to EC. If I had to guess, I'd say, having met you in person, things have become a bit too real for her. She may now have to consider that she really does like women and maybe, in fact, likes you and it's a lot to synthesize at the moment. So to "protect" herself, she's backed off of the flirting and talks more about guys.

    I can relate to her saying she wasn't a touchy-feely person but then seemingly becoming one the next day. I also would normally have said that about myself but now that I'm realizing that I, in fact, like women, I can see how I just didn't want to be touchy-feely. I could be with the right person, though.

    I'm not saying she's definitely into you but it sounds like more than a 50/50 chance. If you can be cool for a while until she has a chance to settle in her own mind what's what, that would be my advice.
     
  3. CapColors

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    I agree with Really except that I would be a bit more cautious than she advises, having read about the heartbreak others have experienced here when their crushes turn the cold hetero shoulder.

    Also, it seems to me pretty obvious that you can't really move forward with her without settling the issue with your husband. So ask yourself if you even want her to like you that way, and if she does, what you'd do about it.

    If the answer is "CHEER! Because my husband has agreed to a limited open marriage!" or "Just knowing she felt something would be enough," then, pursue the answer to your questions.

    If the answer is "Uh, nothing really except feel even MORE unfulfilled," then maybe let it go if you can?

    That last one was my answer, unfortunately. You have to find your own answer, of course.
     
  4. Miri

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    Ditto with everything CapColors said.
     
  5. Really

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    Oh, right. The husband. I rarely comment on them because I've never had one so I'd really just be making stuff up.
     
  6. biblondegirl

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    Thanks for your responses so far; I really appreciate them. I hadn't considered the 'too real' aspect that Really brings up, but that actually might explain a lot: Seeing me in real life is a lot different than making flirtatious comments with the computer screen as a buffer. With the computer between us, when we were talking about meeting up and one of my cousins showing us around the city, her comment was, 'What if I want to get you alone and make out in a closet or something?' I made some joking response about creating a distraction, and she wrote, 'This could work...' but soon after, she was on to talking about hot guys again.

    As for why I still carry the torch for when things have improved with my husband, I'm not sure. Now that I've realized I'm bisexual, my attraction to him (and to her) happens to be evenly split, as they both stir different feelings in me. In person with her, I didn't feel any obvious sexual chemistry, although we do share a lot of intellectual and emotional closeness, and I do find her physically attractive. Also, I definitely sensed her chemistry and compatibility with her husband, and liked him; they seem like a good fit. Meanwhile, with my husband, we are sexually attracted and emotionally attuned to each other, but he doesn't share my intellectual interests. He's my anchor and my rock, and has common-sense approach to life. I appreciate his steadiness. He's my biggest supporter.

    I've actually read up a lot on the issues bisexual married women face, and I have an online friend who is in what CapColors describes as a 'limited open marriage.' She is bi but not out, and has been married to her husband for nearly 30 years. They don't have children. He is straight, and she is able to have girlfriends, but what she really wants is a close girlfriend who is also married, therefore has similar commitments to her primary relationship. They would share a strong emotional and friendship bond and occasionally be sexual with one another, but it would be a 'when the mood strikes' sort of thing and not the primary romantic relationship, if that makes sense. It's something I've daydreamed about, although I don't know how the logistics would work; my husband is a pretty traditional guy and I don't want to hurt him. I don't know (in person) anyone who is in such a marriage and has made it work. To complicate matters, sometimes I wonder if I'm just over-romanticizing the platonic friendships I never experienced in my life before I met her. There are times when I think having a physically (but not sexually) close relationship with a woman to whom I also feel emotionally close might be enough to fulfill this need in me.

    I should add that, early on in our friendship, prior to her first and only girl crush, we were flirting pretty heavily (it almost veered into sexting territory)-and she stopped it, saying it felt 'all wrong' and 'icky.' So, it's also possible that any flirting she's done with me since (and it has never gotten back to the almost-sexting)--has been more because she knows I crush on her, and less about anything she actually feels for me.

    Nearly all of our conversations about anything sexual now center around her fictional male characters (she's writing a novel) who are gay. (We met on a m/m erotica writing forum). In fact, when we were at my hotel room, she actually read some of her work out loud to me, which could've been odd for just about anyone else, but somehow wasn't for us LOL.

    Given the fact that we live 12 hours apart and would be fortunate to meet up twice a year, the logistics of anything progressing seems slim anyway. I think a lot of this has been built up in my head because of the distance; I have a feeling that if we had met apart from an erotica writing forum, just in real life, and saw each other every day, that it's entirely possible this friendship wouldn't be so tantalizing to me. A lot of it seems built on fantasy, or suggestion. It's true that we have gone through some heavy life stuff together (deaths in our families, depressions, that sort of thing) so there is depth there, too. But I also think the safety of the distance lends itself to our friendship also being an escape from the dullness of everyday life.

    I'm not sure all of this makes sense; I'm just rambling LOL.
     
  7. YeahpIdk

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    It does make sense. It sounds like you guys have a really deep emotional connection, and because you're attracted to her...well, you're attracted to her. She seems a little iffy about the situation and her own sexuality. Also, with the flirting... all I can say is that when you're attracted to a writer and your main communication form is writing, it's bound to be pretty fun and interesting. My trigger crush writes, and so do I; our conversations were insanely entertaining, and made everything all the more confusing. I would always say that we were both smart with words, so it was really easy to dance around what we were actually saying and talk in complete innuendo at times. We were great at expressing ourselves to each other, and entertain each other flirtatiously/comically. There's nothing like two writers going at it! I actually hope my next person isn't a writer...creative, yes, but not a writer -- because words mean so much, and some people just like to use them for entertainment for themselves.

    I don't know what to tell you. It sucks so much when people are married and this stuff happens. Maybe you guys just have a special friendship and nothing will ever move forward. I'd say, stay friends, and see what happens, but back off of the flirting a bit...or don't.
     
    #7 YeahpIdk, Nov 22, 2015
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  8. CapColors

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    I actually think you have a very good handle on the situation yourself. You know you are bi, but not mostly gay. You still love your husband and want to stay with him.

    You -may- be romanticizing a platonic friendship because you lack common interests with your husband or you may in fact be bi and have polyamorous tendencies.

    I struggled with many of the same questions and am basically in the same position. Because you are so flexible, then your outside options determine your next move.

    My outside options are slim to none because I'm not employed and won't be employed for another two years. Right now I can't push to open my marriage because I can't risk divorce. And for me, obsessing about my trigger crush was just making me miserable. So I've tried to focus on other stuff. For now. I'll reevaluate when I get a job.

    You have your own options, so presumably your choices will look different. It's taken me four months of therapy and emotional lows to get to this place. Take the time you need!

    Ps what your friend longs for is exactly what I want: a bi girlfriend with a husband
     
    #8 CapColors, Nov 23, 2015
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  9. biblondegirl

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    YeahPIdk: Haha--this is so true! Those writers --what troublemakers! :slight_smile: You make good point: Our writing probably plays a big part in this whole situation, and it's not the sort of banter you can do with just anyone. So, there's a sense of 'understanding' going on that is beyond the obvious, and that is what makes it sexy (imo).

    CapColors; I appreciate your comment and it sounds like we are in a similar situation, and have faced a lot of the same questions. At this point, I do feel like I'm leaning less 'platonic/romanticizing' and more 'bi/maybe poly'. Unfortunately, this idea throws me for a curve, because it's something I never even really knew about or considered until just recently. I do see a clear pattern of intense feelings for women as far back as when I was 5 years old, so I think these feelings toward women are pretty inherent in me. Maybe the reason I was such a loner and didn't have female friends is because they sensed my neediness and my strong feelings?? That's all water under the bridge now, but it does speak to a pattern.

    I've read about what being polyamorous might 'mean' in various relationship contexts, and I have to admit that I don't identify with a lot of it (my husband is straight and has no desire to be with another woman --he's told me as much --and unlike a lot of guys, he also doesn't find two women together all that hot). So, any type of open relationship would be on my end only, specifically because I'm not 100 percent straight. But I also don't harbor any illusions as to what a potential woman in my life might mean: I don't want a live-in triad situation. I'd just want an emotionally close friend who I can be physically --and if it feels right --sexually expressive with. I want love, but not romance if that makes sense; if we came together sexually, it would because it feels right in that moment, and we wouldn't get all tangled up in your typical romantic drama. I suppose you could call it FWB but with an underlying emotional context that would survive even if the sexual part didn't last.

    I don't know if such a woman exists, or if I'm just trying to have my cake and eat it, too. :slight_smile: But I do find that even thinking of this makes me feel a little more on-balance. As for the money situation, I do work two part-time jobs that pay very poorly; my husband works full time at a job that only pays entry-level, despite his having worked at it for years. So, we muddle along.

    I'm not going to talk with my husband about anything related to a limited open marriage at this point, but I'm thankful for this site and other sites online that go into situations like this. If nothing else, I can educate myself about myself before I make any decisions. Also, it appears as though my BFF and I won't see each other in person again for a good six months or longer. It will be interesting, when we do, to see how we interact, since the awkwardness of our first meeting is now past us.
     
    #9 biblondegirl, Nov 23, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  10. Soundofmusic

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    I wish I could advise you but I went through something similar and got the "cold hetero shoulder". Its so hard to figure out whether chemistry and fllirtation is perceived or not. But i think regardless, you have to believe what people tell you because its likely what they are telling themselves. If shes not outright coming onto you and is talking about hot boys all the time now, then this is what shes telling herself is in her best interests and its probably what she'll stick to until further notice.

    Its so frustrating not knowing though :frowning2:
     
  11. CapColors

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    You and me BOTH, girl. We are outliers it seems but we exist! (Most people claim to know for a long time.) I however basically had a revelation one day and haven't been able to swing back to straight (although frankly, in my darkest moments, I tried. Not proud of that but there it is). But, yeah. Talk about a curve ball.

    SAME. The issue is, I know I'm polyamorous in my own way. I could easily be with my "trigger crush" and still be a loving wife to my husband. She and I are so close and already spend tons of time together. We'd just be kicking it up a level ever so slightly. And I'm pretty sure I'd still love my husband and wish to bang him, just like I do now.

    But the sites I've read on polyamoury (admittedly not many) make it seem pretty out there and high maintenance. Like...the people who are willing to adopt that lifestyle now are more extreme than I can envision myself being. They have to be, because the world isn't really set up for it, so they are swimming against the tide.

    I'm sure other bi gals exist like that, definitely. There are some on this site who've said almost the same thing.

    I think I'm a bit more romantic--ideally I'd want a little of the high-flying kick of romance as well as the friendship, but I'd also be happy with a FWB situation.

    Sadly, all of that is out of my reach now and may forever be. But accepting this part of me was essential for my self knowledge.

    I hope you find some peace in it.
     
  12. mellie

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    This made me LOL.

    ---------- Post added 23rd Nov 2015 at 07:57 PM ----------

    biblondegirl---

    I do feel your pain. My "trigger crush" led me on, a TON, and when I finally made a move, she reciprocated, though I was completely rejected the next day (she was married, as was I, she felt guilt, I did not because I was already pretty sure I was gay and was going to move on from my marriage). As hard as it is, some things, you just have to let them go. You cannot change or control how she acts toward you, and it's clear that, if she does have any feelings, she's not comfortable with them. I think that pursuing answers from her would just cause her discomfort, and you pain. In my humble opinion, you need to stop flirting with her, and bring it back down to a strict friendship . . . if you can't do that (I couldn't, I have a real problem with boundaries that I am still working on), then you need to completely let her go, because you are never going to be able to focus on YOU and what YOU want until you set some boundaries and stick to them.

    You found a good group here. Very nonjudgmental. We all come from different backgrounds but we are all, in some way or another, experiencing similar circumstances and / or thoughts. You are in a tough place right now, but the best thing you can do is face yourself and be honest with yourself. Then work on being honest with others. Nobody has the answer, but anyone who has gone through something similar and come out the other side a better, happier person will tell you that the first step is being painstakingly honest about who you are and what you want, and then pursuing whatever that is despite the discomfort.
     
  13. biblondegirl

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    Mellie, thanks for your perspective; I appreciate it. I do know I need to bring the friendship back down to a normal level, because I'm pretty sure that's how she sees it, at least now. The flirting between us was and is almost always initiated by her (she's the more dominant personality) and I would respond to that, but if I choose to drop a hint in a really subtle way, she steers the conversation somewhere else. To me, this says that when she flirts with me, she knows her own intentions (all in fun, joking, an attention grab, maybe); if I do it, she puts the breaks on it because she knows I've crushed on her.

    So, I totally relate to what you mention about creating boundaries. When we met in person, she really did that (sitting apart from each other in the hotel room, and when we sat on the bed, it was like a line was drawn between us, which seemed to be more her preference than mine). The two instances of the massage were nice and unexpected, and maybe gave her the opportunity to try and feel closer to me, but because of my attraction to her, it stirred those feelings in me.

    I really like what I've read so far in these threads about coming out late in life and what that could mean if you're already married. I've been in other forums like this where people can be really judgmental. In my case, I've discovered these dormant feelings for other women (and what they really might mean) too late; I was ashamed before to even explore them; growing up, I wasn't aware of LGBT people. I figured I was just 'lonely' for female friends, and was too frightened to consider that the intensity of my feelings for (some) women were how my straight friends felt about their boyfriends/husbands.

    Another way I try to create boundaries for myself is to tell myself that even if I had had the opportunity to be in a romantic relationship with another woman, that doesn't mean it might not have been just as drama-filled and fraught as a romantic relationship with a man. For me, it's about finding that strong emotional connection and going from there. I don't think I could be in any sort of intimate relationship in any meaningful way otherwise.