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Half tries and figuring out needs and wants

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by CameOutSwinging, Dec 10, 2015.

  1. CameOutSwinging

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    Probably going to ramble a little here, so apologies in advance:

    It's been a little over a month of "marriage" now and things have not gotten much better. I know that I'm not innocent in terms of committing to always making things work (especially when I get to questioning my sexuality), but I'm having a hard time with the fact that my "wife" doesn't seem committed to trying to make things work either. I still sort of just wish she'd either go all in or just say we're done. Now I realize I could do the same, and I probably should, but I don't. I won't let myself off the hook, but sometimes I feel like I would even try harder if I felt like she was trying at all.

    She still wants me to fix us. She wants things to go back to the way they were. Now, the way things were involved me pretty much ignoring my needs and dedicating everything to making her happy and making sure she wanted to stay with me. I was so afraid of being rejected and being alone that I did everything I could to avoid that happening. I get why she wanted to be with me, who wouldn't want to be with somebody who pretty much makes their life about you?

    And I kick myself for not speaking up more about things that should have been dealbreakers when we started dating, things I let slide because I knew she'd be fine with just walking away if she felt like it wasn't going to work. And yet, am I still doing that? Of course I am. I know there's things that even now don't work for me, but I'm still letting them slide. At what point do I decide that these are dealbreakers? More importantly, at what point do I decide that I can stand up on my own two feet and not be afraid of losing her and being single?

    I'm sure she feels like she is trying in some ways, but I honestly can't think of any. She wants to start going to concerts with me...but it's because she feels uninvited and like I don't want to do things with her. Not because it's something I love to do and she wants to do things I like with me. I'm sure to her, wanting to do this with me is trying, but the thing is I don't want her to go to concerts with me! I did want that when we started dating, and I was shot down and told "isn't that what you have friends for?" And so I stopped going to shows for a long time. Until I made a friend who loves it too. Now suddenly she wants to go to shows with me. Shows I know she won't have fun at. And when I do invite her, she mostly searches for excuses as to why she can't come, stressing me out further as oppose to just saying yes or no.

    I invited her to a show tomorrow night in Brooklyn. It's a band she doesn't know, but they will be her speed and the show shouldn't be too crazy. She's agreed to come, but I don't get the sense that she actually wants to come as much as she's just coming because I invited her and she's complained about it...like, she's getting what she asked for, so now she has to follow through with it. If that makes sense.

    But then I do stop and think how I do want to be dating the person who wants to do things with me just because they're things I enjoy. It was a blow to me when 3 years ago I invited her to do something I love and was told to go ahead and do it with other people. My ex girlfriend wasn't into the bands I was, but she was always happy to come to a concert with me. Or a pro wrestling show. Heck I see my best friend and his now fiancee - she's going to a hockey game with him this weekend. She doesn't like hockey, but she wants to do something with him that he enjoys!

    And that gets me to thinking about things I want versus things I need. I know I've probably talked about this before, and so have others. What makes something a need versus a want? Is sex with men a need for me? Heck, is sex a need at all? I kind of think it is, which is part of why my "wife" and I not having sex for over a month now (last time was the wedding weekend) pushes me further away from her. But maybe I'm wrong? Maybe it shouldn't be a need? Certainly in other life circumstances, it might not be a need. But as a healthy 32 year old man who enjoys having sex, right now, it feels like a total need. So when do I decide that the lack of sex is enough of a deal breaker? Two months? Six?

    What other needs do I even have? I mean there's always the obvious. I need a roof over my head, I need to eat, I need to feel generally good about myself. But is it okay to go larger on the need scale? Sex as a need? Love as a need? Romance? Needs sometimes feel like such a tricky thing.

    Anyway, I guess I've rambled enough. Thanks for reading, if you make it through this.
     
  2. angeluscrzy

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    Honestly, I remember when you were questioning if the marriage should even take place. In that sense, I I don't get why you would have followed thru with it, much less wonder why she is not what you seem to want. And I am definitely not criticizing, I just think that you had the benefit of enough foresight that you could've seen the marriage itself was pretty well doomed.
     
  3. CameOutSwinging

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    I'm still struggling with letting go and I guess part of me is still hoping maybe she'll become what I want. It's probably naive. It's taken me a lot of time to realize she wasn't even what I wanted. The funny thing is I think my first girlfriend was exactly what I wanted in a partner. We weren't without our problems obviously, but I would have never even remotely considered ending things with her. She's the one that fell out of love with me and decided it was over. But after that experience, I thought perhaps she wasn't what I wanted. So when I met my "wife," or started hanging out with her again really since we were childhood friends originally, I liked that she was so different. It made me rethink relationships and what I wanted.

    It feels weird to now realize what I wanted was a lot more like what I used to have so long ago.
     
  4. OnTheHighway

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    I agree with Angeluscrzy, and having read and commented on your prior posts, recognizing you are where you are, the question then becomes, what should you do. Worry less about needs and wants and more about what type of life you want to live.
     
  5. CameOutSwinging

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    What do you mean by "what type of life you want to live" exactly? I'm intrigued by that. I'd like to give it some serious thought.
     
  6. angeluscrzy

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    I think its a matter of what will make you happy in the long run. I could be with another woman, but I feel like it would only be a matter of time before my sexuality issues creep up again. And its hard cuz I've never been intimate with a guy (except for experimenting as a kid). But that said, I now fully accept those feelings aren't going away, and that to enter into a hetero relationship would only be damaging.
     
  7. OnTheHighway

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    For me, the question meant either a) being true to myself or b) living my life by society standards which conflicted with whom I truly am. After 19 years of living via "b", I decided to give "a" a try, and it was the best decision I could have made!
     
  8. angeluscrzy

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    Exactly. That's where I am. I've done the woman and kids thing, and I'd not trade my girls for anything in the world, but I am just ready to live the way I wanted to years ago.
     
  9. Weston

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    I curious what you think your "wife" actually gets out of this relationship. Obviously there's your slavish devotion, but other than that, she's not interested in you and apparently not even in sex.

    And besides humiliation and unhappiness, what to you get out of it?
     
    #9 Weston, Dec 10, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2015
  10. CapColors

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    COS, work on your financial situation if you can. It will make you feel stronger and readier to ask for what you want. I frankly think that's partly at the core of your issues. It's not the only thing going on but I think it's compounding it. All of us who are in financially lower positions have a really hard time living out.

    I wouldn't blame your wife for not trying, really. I think her pulling away is pretty rational given the state of affairs, which is that the relationship isn't really working? If I were her I'd be pretty sad about my hopes and dreams for settling down not turning out.

    When I was 32 I had a kid, a demanding job, and a second on the way. I wasn't going to concerts or wrestling matches. From what you've said, it could be that she's looking for a more mature lifestyle and wants YOU to want it, too. Which is silly but not evil on her part.

    So like, she'll go to concerts but what she really wants is for you to want to do something else. Something closer to what she wants to do. Which sounds a LITTLE like what you want as well...

    (Also, BRO. if you think a woman should pretend to like hockey and wrestling for a man then I hope you can wax rhapsodic about Twilight fanfic and fake a passion for shoe shopping. Some things are only meant to be shared with your male brethren. :slight_smile:

    Although I do get and agree with your larger point, of course.)
     
    #10 CapColors, Dec 10, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2015
  11. baristajedi

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    Hi COS. I think that you and your wife are both, like Cap said, expecting very different things from the relationship. From her perspective maybe she's investing alot of energy into making it work, but in the way that *she* wants it to work. Same goes for you, and maybe she views it as you not putting in much effort.

    I wonder though, at the core, how much you really want to be in this relationship. A lot of our experiences are similar, so just to share with you, I've gotten to a point finally where everything seems to be falling into place for me and all the things I want I am living them authentically or working towards doing so, EXCEPT - I still cannot seem to feel good about my relationship with my husband. I don't know yet if it's simply time I need or if I'll never feel it for him again.
    The only thing that makes me feel at peace with that is, I'm finally seeing that clearly and finally being fully honest with myself and him in that respect. And I'm taking time and space to explore those feelings.

    For you, I think you hsve to take a hard look at what you really believe will make you happy. Can you be happy with your wife? Can you be happy without being with s man? What can you do to give yourself space to figure that out?
     
  12. CameOutSwinging

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    I definite relate to this. I've promised myself that if I end up single again, I would not date women anymore. This is twice the same thing popped up and after a certain point you just have to call a spade a spade. Plus I have a few friends who have promised to slap me if I ever date women again. :lol:

    ---------- Post added 11th Dec 2015 at 07:19 AM ----------

    I guess I'm still trying to figure out what being true to myself means, for me. I know it sounds like I have a lot of this figured out, and maybe I'm just not paying attention to the things I say or do enough, but I do feel conflicted still internally. I don't know though, when I talk about this stuff here or in real life, a lot of people seem to take from my words things that I'm still too scared to act on. If that makes sense. Reading that back, I guess that means I'm choosing B right now...sigh.

    ---------- Post added 11th Dec 2015 at 07:22 AM ----------

    To be honest, I have no idea! I'm honestly not sure why she hasn't kicked me to the curb. I guess we're both really bad at break ups and moving on. I guess that's sort of what I mean though when I say that I wish she'd either go all in on trying to make this work, or just throw in the towel. She doesn't even get my "slavish devotion" anymore really, she only wishes that she did. Well, that sounds harsh, but that's how I feel when she says she wishes things were like they used to be.

    And I'm really not sure what I get either...Part of me wants to say I get companionship, but I guess that's not exactly fully true when I'm mostly just in conflict with her and we're not even being intimate. So, I don't know. That's definitely a lot to think about.
     
  13. angeluscrzy

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    I think it makes perfect sense. To finally just accept things as they are and not trying to push things back anymore, a lot of this is terrifying. Of course we care what others think, these are the people closest to us, ideally people we can count on. We don't wanna be seen as different in their eyes. I think most the time it doesn't end up that bad, but even if someone rejects you for it, are you really willing to spend your life as half of who you really are JUST to spare someone else's "discomfort"?
    Screw that, from now on this is how it is, and if someone else has a prob with that, you tell em kiss your ass.
     
  14. CameOutSwinging

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    The funny thing is, I do those things! I'm totally the guy who goes shopping with her and gives her my opinion on clothes and purses and shoes (the less we have sex, the more I'm apparently becoming just her gay best friend, haha) and I'm the guy that's waited at the nail salon reading a book while she got a mani/pedi. I've gone skiing with her even though I never had any remote interest in skiing (and we're going again in January, if we're still together). I got into tennis because she's a fan. Pretty much anything she's wanted me to do with her, I've been all in. I guess maybe I'm lucky she isn't into Twilight fanfic, haha.

    It actually doesn't entirely bother me that she's not into my interests anymore. It more bothers me that now she wants to be involved in my interests because she feels like I have all my fun without her. A little independence is a good thing, and you shouldn't have to come do anything you don't want to do. I mean, if I started dating somebody new and they wanted to do those things with me, I'd be thrilled. But I still don't know that that's a deal breaker. It's more a deal breaker if you're going to pass on doing those things with me and then get mad at me when I do them without you.

    You're right with everything you've said though and I always appreciate your feedback because I feel like it's the most honest version of what she would want to say to explain herself but doesn't for whatever reason. I guess I still wonder why she doesn't just dump me if she sees all of her hopes and dreams fading away in this relationship. But then, I'm no better on the dumping part. So I can't judge her for it.

    ---------- Post added 11th Dec 2015 at 07:39 AM ----------

    You're absolutely right. The more I think about it, the more I realize I probably more than anything else need space to figure things out. And I don't entirely know how to give myself that. Because separating feels very final no matter what. I probably should have stayed away longer when I moved out back in August. A few days wasn't enough to figure things out. Heck, a few weeks might not even be enough.

    ---------- Post added 11th Dec 2015 at 07:42 AM ----------

    And truth is all of my friends and most of my family would have no issue with it at all. Coming out for me would actually be one of the easiest things in the world, because pretty much everybody I care about already knows. I might even gain back a few friends who honestly were angry with me when I went through with the wedding.

    The only person who would really be hurt the most is my "wife," and in the long run, maybe even she would be better off.
     
  15. confused04

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    I don't know, from everything I've read that you've posted over the past few weeks, I am completely baffled why on earth you two are still together. Neither one of you seems happy at all, and you know you are gay. Don't you think she might be happier in the log run if she found someone who loved her fully? She seems to have a ton of baggage, but that isn't your job to try and fix if she isn't willing to look at it herself. I hope I am not too blunt, but I don't see many redeeming qualities in your relationship.
     
  16. CameOutSwinging

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    Thank you, blunt yes but totally right in a lot of ways. Heck, I don't see many redeeming qualities to our relationship. I think if anybody else were telling me these things, I'd advise that they run as fast and far as they can.

    Some people struggle with building the courage to come out. I guess I'm more struggling with building the courage to be single. To choose that and look my fears of rejection and loneliness in the face and say sorry, you're not controlling me anymore.

    Because truth is, if it happened to me, and she broke up with me, I'd be fine. I'd survive. I've done it before. But being the one to make that choice is just so very scary to me. It's almost like a band aid, right? Like I just need to do it and let the chips fall where they may. But to let you guys in on a little secret, I've always sucked at taking band aids off too.
     
  17. angeluscrzy

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    Well, one thing is certain. Time is not gonna make any of this easier for anyone involved.
     
  18. rachael1954

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    Aaaaand that's why I'm still with my spouse. He has now stated for the record that he's not going to kick me out/cut and run/file for divorce. He's going to try to make it work. So I'd have to be the one to muster the energy/initiative to file. But as unmotivated as I am to work on my marriage, I also don't have motivation to make the promised epic divorce battle the focal point of my life for the next 2-6 years.

    ---------- Post added 11th Dec 2015 at 03:23 PM ----------

    I heard a friend of a friend who got divorce because he couldn't stand his wife leaving the kitchen cabinet doors open all the time. He never regretted it because he realized he couldn't live like that.

    It's a personal decision based on how you want to live. (Listen to me acting wise when I can't even figure out anything about my own life - ha! )

    Everyone who responded here makes sense. I'll come back to this thread and re-read them because they are wise and apply to me as well, and probably others lurking here.
     
    #18 rachael1954, Dec 11, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
  19. Shadowsylke

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    This.

    Being afraid/unmotivated is not an excuse that is going to work for you in the long run. I know it's scary to make changes, but the longer you drag things out, the more painful it will be for everyone involved, and the more you just end up delaying everyone's eventual happiness. It is just not healthy.

    It sounds like you know that this relationship is not going to work, but you are frozen in place for fear of the unknown. That's a natural reaction, but you will have to grab a hold of it at some point. You can't walk through that new door until you deal with this one. It's part of being a grown-up, I guess. And often, as with many things in life, you'll find that the reality is not nearly as scary as the imagined scenarios in your head. Once you understand that, the fear loses its power over you.

    What is that quote that Sienna Fire uses? "The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek"...it's true.
     
  20. confused04

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    yes times a million!! I am on the opposite end, i have been alone and single for so long that i can't even IMAGINE being in a relationship, especially one where i was afraid of being alone :wink: